Conn Eremon Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I admit that I can't help but look at the close-up and see the Marine equivalent to the "Wot da zog iz dat?" Ork Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The heresy is fundamentally about religion wade, and it all kicks off because one superhuman desperately needs a god or gods to believe in. He worships someone that isnt a diety and they spurn him because he isnt a diety so he goes elsewhere and to all intents and purposes becomes a devil worshiper :P so far relgion hasnt been portrayed as a good thing in the 41st millennium anywhere other than the garro stories. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593215 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The heresy is fundamentally about religion wade, and it all kicks off because one superhuman desperately needs a god or gods to believe in. He worships someone that isnt a diety and they spurn him because he isnt a diety so he goes elsewhere and to all intents and purposes becomes a devil worshiper :P so far relgion hasnt been portrayed as a good thing in the 41st millennium anywhere other than the garro stories.The thing is the Heresy is about the fact that Humanity is screwed with or without religion. Its about the fact that Humanity will destroy itself in a universe that hates Humanity and wants to crush it under heel, because of something as stupid as "My translation of the Bible says the Emperor said this and yours doesn't so..... My gun's bigger. BLAM!" I think Wade's impression is that David Annandale is actually trying to write off that "Atheism would have saved Humanity in a universe where THE Major Superpower of the Human species was slaughtering billions of people for not being atheists." At least, that's what I think Wade is tryin to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593224 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 You've pretty much summed up my opinion, Kol. In the grim darkness of the far future, it doesn't matter whether or not you believe in gods and demons-because they most certainly believe in you. After all, both post Isstvan Perturabo ("I believe in nothing!") and post Prospero Magnus ("Giant sentient Warp storms! Pshaw!") were as atheist as any advocate of the Imperial Truth. They still wound up just as damned as the Primarchs like Lorgar and Fulgrim, who abased themselves before powers they called divine. For that matter, are we just ignoring that Lorgar's fall was kicked off by the Emperor trying to force him to be atheist by nuking cities from orbit? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
amaze07 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Nykona Sharrowkyn and the others perhaps! I hope so! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Lorgars fall was kicked off because of his desperate need to believe in higher powers. The emperor attempted to stamp it out as it was anathema to the way he hoped to save humanity. So I disagree completely with the idea that Lorgar wasn't the one at fault at first, he comes across as incapable of coping without a diety to believe in, but is so fickle that the moment that he is rebuffed he turns to the very next one he could possibly find. to me it has always come across as the concept of 30k being that the emperors vision really would have 'saved' humanity had the need for religion by humanity not been so great. The Chaos gods are powered by believers more than they are powered by anything else. You make reasonable points about Perturabo and Magnus, although tbh, I got the impression in scars that Magnus has come to realise his error but could do nothing about it... also for what its worth, and to add context, I'm Christian, I do believe in god, I just believe that the context of the Horus Heresy lore from pretty much the start is that relgion is a source of the conflict. I guess what I'm saying is... that within the context of the Horus Heresy stuff, I agree with David Annadale if that is indeed what he was going for lol... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Honestly, the idea of the Imperial Truth saving humanity makes no sense with the current lore. Khorne doesn't care if you kill screaming the name of your preferred deity on a holy jihad, or if you just scream for more artillery support while engaged in a purely secular resource grab. As long as the blood flows, he'll be there. The Chaos Gods feed on rage, ambition, despair, and ecstasy. Not 'faith' or 'worship'. And an atheist, agnostic or nihilist can wallow in any or all of those as easily as a theist or deist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 it still seems to heavily imply that they require worshipers, else they'd have no need to twist humanity into worshiping them in the first place. Humanity doesn't get corrupted by the chaos gods without willingly accepting them either. That is why Brother Bob of the Blood Angels isn't a Khornate monster, because whilst he may kill and fight, he doesn't allow worship of khorne to hold sway over him. Whereas Brother Will of the World Eaters has freely given himself over to Khorne, and has thus become a monster. The same is true even of Magnus, whom willingly made pacts and deals with the entities, even if he didn't view them as deities. The same is also true of the Emperors Children whom willingly gave in to the impulses of slaanesh, and fell into depravity. The same is true of Mortarion and the Death Guard who accepted the bargain of Nurgle to keep them alive when they should have died. Relgion itself isn't necessarily the issue as such, but believing that the entities in the warp are great powers that can help you/grant you power in return for what is essentially worship, is very nearly the same thing. Yes the entities in the warp will exist either way, yes they may even gain a little power from every random person that commits acts related to their relevant portfolios, but it is the ones that freely give themselves and perform acts of worship that truly empower them. If you assume that is not the case, then the entire purpose of the heresy loses any meaning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 So your position is that as long as Angron and the World Eaters were butchering entire planetary populations just because "Arrrgh! The Nails burn!" they had nothing to do with Khorne and Khorne had nothing to do with them, that it was only after Nuceria that their frenzied massacres began to feed the Blood God. That the eldar somehow willingly gave themselves to Slaanesh worship and empowered it before Slaanesh was even a thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 i think that they were already being pushed down that path by Lorgar anyway, but to an extent I believe that Khorne got more out of them as willing servants than random bystanders. The eldar one is more tricky, they literally created Slaanesh, and there is quite literally no real detail on exactly what happened to cause that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I figure that everytime a human prays to the Emperor he gets more powerful in the warp. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593349 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 interesting concept and is what is implied to be his plan by certain characters (Lorgar I think even suggests something like that? although i may be going crazy there). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The Eldar were actually worshiping Slanesh before "it's" birth. They were tearing down their other Gods' statues before his moment of creation. Apparently it began slowly and they were like "the god not yet born conveniently already named Slanesh" wants us to live peacefully and hedonistic. Which progressed down the road we all know as more people gave themselves openly to "pleasure" and/or Slanesh. This information I took from the Fist of Demetrius. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbero666 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 My theory is that the emotions gave power and consistency to the Chaos Gods, the same way it does with other powers in the warp. It fuel them, and makes them grow stronger. But what really makes them Chaos Gods, as in great named entities with followers who took a realm in the warp, is faith, and worship. The emotions gave them size and power, the faith and whorship gave them form, so to speak. So if there were no worshippers at all they would probably cease to exist as Gods, as in intelligent gods. They would be enthropic powers formed by emotions, like a giant pool of energy in the warp, but not gods in the purest sense of the word. More like Azathoth less like Shub-Niggurath. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 i think that they were already being pushed down that path by Lorgar anyway, but to an extent I believe that Khorne got more out of them as willing servants than random bystanders. The eldar one is more tricky, they literally created Slaanesh, and there is quite literally no real detail on exactly what happened to cause that. Well, from what we know, the only way to worship Khorne is to fight and shed blood. Knowingly or not. The difference between Khornate cultists and other people who fight is that Khornate cultists know that, and, in order to worship Khorne, they just actively seek any opportunity to shed blood. That's the only difference. It's the same for the other Chaos gods. Their servants just give themselves wholly to what defines their god. To sum things up, everyone feeds the Chaos gods. But their followers are giving them more power than random dude #24866, because they do the things that please their god / create the situation to get X or Y feeling that feeds their god more often. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 The picture reminds me of a early 90's historical/sci-fi WWII rules set US Marines vs Dinosaurs .And I'd bet the RG's Armour will be called Deliverance Pattern. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brannick Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Surely Horus could come up with better recruits than these dinosaurs? But, then again, all the legions who 'signed up' to his rebellion seem to wander off and do their own thing - dinosaurs seem a sound alternative. Next stop, sharks with ray-guns, car chases and sexy babes = heresy complete :-) Also have my fingers crossed that this might be an extension of the Sharrowkyn and gang storyline. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Also have my fingers crossed that this might be an extension of the Sharrowkyn and gang storyline.I don't think it will be. So far the one short story and novel that have featured them have both been writtin by Graham McNeill. i'm guessing they're going to be his personal baby. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593626 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilmittens Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 He also wrote " Yarrick: Chains of Golgotha" which was a novella. I enjoyed that book, so I think he will be ok. I am more troubled by the face we are not moving past Istvaan very fast. I know, I know there are a lot of stories there, but Unremembered Empire seemed to state that we were on to a new phase of the books...and boom, back to Istvaan V I don't recall dinosaurs on Isstvan V... This book will feature the Shattered Legions, it will not be about the dropsite massacre. The Shattered Legions are very much a new phase of the Heresy. We know virtually nothing about what the crippled legions did, other than the Raven Guard of course. No, of course no dinosaurs on Istvaan. My point was more, lets move on to more phases then the direct aftermath of that. Things like Tallarn and on time period. Yes, we can know more about them, but we have been following Xa'ven and others in lots of short stories, so we know what happened to some of the legions. I guess, I agree with you, but want to see more movement and keep the shattered stuff to novellas and/or short stories. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yeah I want more about the whole legions, isstvaan feels like it's getting dragged about. I want to see more Dark angels, space wolves, imperial fists, and especially blood Angels. When will we also see the "evil" side again? I loved betrayer and want to see more about the legions moving towards Terra and all the battles that go on. HowsaboutafullbookontheNightLords? There. I got it out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 But, but, Dinosaurs! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3593667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
callmeMrBadger Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Just finished this book - my god that was an effort. Unremembered empire I read in a single sitting, Vengeful spirit took two evenings, this one took almost 3 months. I've never before found a book I'm so willing to put down after only a couple of pages. oh and I was actually beginning to chuckle at the overuse of the "it was a dark bleak night BUT he could see clearly as day" "Atticus thought he had the enemy mastered BUT he was wrong", "she would certainty fail defeated BUT can't loose" really got tired of this contradicting overuse style. Found a book a disliked more than Battle for the Abyss, should have given it a white cover and called it a Battle book as it didn't add anything to the plot and could have been set in any time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/286765-damnation-of-pythos/page/3/#findComment-3834327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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