No Foes Remain Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Greetings, Sons of the Lion. The idea for this topic spawned off this one where the Astral Claws have similar traits to the Sons of the Lion but are not shown or appear as a Dark Angel Successor chapter. The gene-seed purity of the Astral Claws suggests that they are either from the Ultramarines gene-line or the Dark Angels, and IA 9 Badab War part 1 states this as well as the fact that the Astral Claws show a wide range of tactics (supporting the Ultra gene-line theory) but also favour bike attacks and are stubborn in combat (also supported by the rules that FW have put out) and would willingly die in combat. Though I will endevor to find the exact quotes within both IA 9 & 10, once found I will post them here. Regards, Ventris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Bike attacks and willing to die in combat can also mean White Scars. The reluctance of the High Lords of Terra to sanction Chapters with DA Gene-seed should also be taken into account. We don't know much about Chapter creation but gene-seed origion/Progenitor Chapter unknown usually means we're talking about mixed gene-seeds or some other kind of experimentation. While I don't discard the possibility of DA gene-seed, it's not one of the strongest candidates to new Chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Does a certain geneseed convey a certain tactical brilliance and flexibility or is that a matter of training? Vampirism and Lycanthropy and their attendant berzerker tendencies I would say do because I can see that being a physical trait but I dont see being tactically flexible as a gene memory thing... If it is a trained response then you need to add the IF, RG, WS and Salamanders into that mix... Also as was brought up in the other thread; Were the Astral Claws created from a set of mixed Geneseed from several founding legions? These are questions that must be answered conclusively before any sort of parentage can be determined because there is not much in the fluff to suggest who is the primogenitor. Not like the Maldictors who have been hinted at as a DA successor and who are currently under =I= sanction and control for using proscribed weaponry (that happened to get the job done...). Do the Astral Claws have that proclivity to do whatever it takes to get the job done or are you (the collective you, not you specifically) just basing it on their ability to switch sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Prior to the 21st founding, I thought that there was no gene-seed mixing and that the 21st was a tester founding to see what would happen if they did tinker with the gene-seed. @Lucifer: They weren't a 'new' chapter though, they were part of the 10th founding which puts them around M35-ish. Plus their gene-seed was pure and showed no signs of degrading, nor the barbaric fury that is a trait within the White Scars gene-seed, so its highly likely that they have all organs avaliable to the Astartes which only two gene lines are able to have with no defects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Two LOYALIST gene lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Two LOYALIST gene lines... That is true... We have hints that Traitor Geneseed has been used in at least one known "Loyalist" chapter (Blood Ravens)... And I am still of a mind that Loken and the other loyal outcasts donated to the GK genebank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronotonic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Well for my Legions...unique point of views...our Gene Seed can go toe to toe with Guillimans and the Lions with how well it is doing...minus those few Deamon Princes in our ranks...crazy s.o.b.s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 They ended up Traitor didn't they? Well that means it's impossible to be DAs because there was never a sign of Traitor scum in our lineage. Never. Ever. No sir! It's UMs. For sure. :P On a more serious note, I think that this is a question that cannot have an answer... There are enough hints to be everything, so unless the "official" FW/GW/BL come out and say this explicitly it's anybody's guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 IA9 states that the Astral Claws were listed as destroyed in action during the Altid Crusade while fighting alongside the Dark Angels, only to reappear almost two millenia later. Given that the Fallen were present during this campaign (to the point where the DA bullied their Imperial Guard allies into standing back for most of the fighting), and tendency for non-DA forces to suffer mysterious mishaps when meddling in such matters, I'd wager the Astral Claws could not have been Dark Angel successors, or else they would not have "mishapped" to the point where their entire chapter was almost lost. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 @Semper: I agree, but there are more hints towards DA gene-line than any other. I'm going to shoot Forge World and email and see what they say, worth a try. IA9 states that the Astral Claws were listed as destroyed in action during the Altid Crusade while fighting alongside the Dark Angels, only to reappear almost two millenia later. Given that the Fallen were present during this campaign (to the point where the DA bullied their Imperial Guard allies into standing back for most of the fighting), and tendency for non-DA forces to suffer mysterious mishaps when meddling in such matters, I'd wager the Astral Claws could not have been Dark Angel successors, or else they would not have "mishapped" to the point where their entire chapter was almost lost. Could also be that the AC bled themselves at the forefront of the fight, refusing to fall back if the encountered traps or killzones, and let the DA deal with the Fallen and then set about repairing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Give it a go - l really doubt though they'll casually confirm a pice of fluff that went to some length of obscuring it in their official publications. Still, nothing to lose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Sent it, will post any reply here. Doubt they will say, but its worth a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoriel Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 @Semper: I agree, but there are more hints towards DA gene-line than any other. I'm going to shoot Forge World and email and see what they say, worth a try. IA9 states that the Astral Claws were listed as destroyed in action during the Altid Crusade while fighting alongside the Dark Angels, only to reappear almost two millenia later. Given that the Fallen were present during this campaign (to the point where the DA bullied their Imperial Guard allies into standing back for most of the fighting), and tendency for non-DA forces to suffer mysterious mishaps when meddling in such matters, I'd wager the Astral Claws could not have been Dark Angel successors, or else they would not have "mishapped" to the point where their entire chapter was almost lost. Could also be that the AC bled themselves at the forefront of the fight, refusing to fall back if the encountered traps or killzones, and let the DA deal with the Fallen and then set about repairing themselves. This would be extremely improbable - the Dark Angels actually gave credit to the Imperial Guard in their records for their non-efforts whereas they didn't give any at all to the Astral Claws. Per Azrael's advent calendar story, the Dark Angels have a tendency to acknowledge the heroism of friendly forces against the enemy in their records, even if said forces end up falling victim to "Deathing protocols" shortly after. Bleeding themselves to death at the forefront would have most certainly merited something more than what the guard recieved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 My guess would be leaning closer to a mixed heritage. Not gene blended, but rather geneseed taken from several unlisted/mislabeled/misfiled genebanks that happened to test pure of degradation. The Astral Claws would then be a bastardized successor of muddied bloodline. But failing that, I say we blame it on Russ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Master Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 IA9 states that the Astral Claws were listed as destroyed in action during the Altid Crusade while fighting alongside the Dark Angels, only to reappear almost two millenia later. Given that the Fallen were present during this campaign (to the point where the DA bullied their Imperial Guard allies into standing back for most of the fighting), and tendency for non-DA forces to suffer mysterious mishaps when meddling in such matters, I'd wager the Astral Claws could not have been Dark Angel successors, or else they would not have "mishapped" to the point where their entire chapter was almost lost. ;) Heh, How about this for a conspiracy theory? They really did get wiped out and the DA saw an opportunity to increase the numbers without risking the High Lords of Terra finding out. Hench the 'new' Astral Claws refusing to send Gene seed tithe and having a leaning towards legion building. Yeah I know, I'll get my coat. See you in Room 42 ;-) DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Dark_Master, I can't like that post enough! One of my friends is a huge Astral Claws fan and I'm going to have a lot of fun teasing him with that theory. :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 IA9 states that the Astral Claws were listed as destroyed in action during the Altid Crusade while fighting alongside the Dark Angels, only to reappear almost two millenia later. Given that the Fallen were present during this campaign (to the point where the DA bullied their Imperial Guard allies into standing back for most of the fighting), and tendency for non-DA forces to suffer mysterious mishaps when meddling in such matters, I'd wager the Astral Claws could not have been Dark Angel successors, or else they would not have "mishapped" to the point where their entire chapter was almost lost. Heh, How about this for a conspiracy theory? They really did get wiped out and the DA saw an opportunity to increase the numbers without risking the High Lords of Terra finding out. Hench the 'new' Astral Claws refusing to send Gene seed tithe and having a leaning towards legion building. Yeah I know, I'll get my coat. See you in Room 42 ;-) DM Ah now you are making me question everything! Is this how it starts....? Late edit: Got a reply from FW Hi Jake, Thank you for your email. The Astral Claws founding is shrouded by time as the records of the founding have been destroyed. We currently have no further information on the Astral Claws but more may be uncovered in future. If there is anything further we can do to assist you, or if you have any queries about the information we have requested or provided, please telephone us. Regards, Forge World Crypic as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradiel Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 tipical gw response.. Q: is this true or false? A: yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Did anyone really expect a different answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 No, and neither should we... If they kept it a secret in the ir official publications, will they reveal it in a casual email? :no: Nice try though Ventris! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 I'll admit it was a long shot. But could it also be possible that the AC are from DA gene-seed but had a training cadre from an Ultra gene-line chapter? Hence the confusion of gene-lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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