I hate the land speeder vengeance, so you don’t have to

[SvenONE]

I hate the LSV, it’s one of, if not the, worst costed units in our codex. After months of trying to use it, I’ve all but given up hope on it ever working in a list. I don’t want this to be an LSV bash, it’s easy to do given how easy of a target it is. I want to share some thoughts on how it can work a little better, for players who might be considering bringing one.

 

I’ll get all the dirty laundry out of the way first. GW appears to consider the Plasma Battery and the role of a Heavy Support to be worth 90 points — that’s right, almost DOUBLE of what a regular, heavy bolter armed land speeder is. It can get hot, and potentially glance itself (and of course lose it’s shot), or if you’re really unlucky it can get hot 3 times and potentially glance itself to death. It’s a 10% chance of a failed “save” glance happening in the first place. (Note: Vehicles suffer a glance on a further roll of a 1,2,3 p37 BRB). The thing is massive (blessing and a curse) compared to the regular land speeder, something that i think is sadly a byproduct of the fact GW decided to make it a multi kit with the Darkshroud. This works in the Darkshroud’s and the units your Darkshroud is screening, but not so much for the LSV. That’s just compared to land speeders, compared to just about any option of a predator, or vindicator it’s almost a no brainer to choose them over the LSV. Heck even 2 Whirlwinds aren’t a bad deal. Then you’ve got the option to make it even MORE expensive and put an assault cannon on it. PHEW, ok. It’s not great on paper, in fact it’s downright terrible (in this author’s opinion!), it’s truly a unit that the success of which is entirely dependent on player decision, in fact the LSV seems like something that you would find in the Dark Eldar Codex given how fragile it can be.

 

Anyway here are some things that can help get your moneys worth:

• LOS - The main thing I think a player should keep in mind when using the LSV is that you don’t want it to be a one time use unit. You should, at all costs make sure that this thing stays safe and can get as many shots off as possible, 2 rounds of shooting is pretty good. If that means even keeping it hidden away until the time is right, do so. You don’t want to commit this thing killing a unit it either can’t finish off, or put it in a position of something that can really hurt it (anything other than bolters). Don’t forget it can be used as a deterrent (expensive one) as well as an offensive threat.

• Bringing a Darkshroud, if you have an army that is using a dark shroud be sure to keep it close by and screen the LSV, and then turbo boost the Darkshroud when in the shooting phase. This is a similar tactic to venoms/raiders screening one another to confer cover saves, additionally you’ll be getting a +1 from the stealth the Shroud is providing, so that’s a nice 4+, better than nothing. I’d really only recommend this if

• Bike HQ with PFG. This is more or less your best option especially if you’re running a RW army. Truthfully, you don’t even need to have the HQ on a bike. With 24” and the ability to move over units freely, finding a spot near say a librarian or tech marine bearing a PFG isn’t too hard. Librarian is excellent for prescience in either mode.

• Don’t bother with the assault cannon. It’s personal preference but I think the thing is already too expensive, if you want ACs, bring Tornados. The Heavy Bolter, while it might only be 3 shots, the 36” range allows it to fire pot shots from a safe distance at most regular infantry.

• Your list: I think that GW intended it to be brought as some heavy support for Ravenwing, unfortunately between Knights and bells and whistles of a Ravenwing force, it just doesn’t fit in that well. But, if you can, Ravenwing lists can do ok with it because you’re going to be threatening with so many other units. It goes back to my first point of LOS, if you’re running a GW list, keep this thing back at all costs, but when it’s running near a dark shroud and a bunch of RW bikes breathing on the enemy, they will most likely be more interested in shooting your bikes or the dark shroud protecting everything.

• Your Opponent: I've found the thing is really most effective against Xenos, it's pretty decent against things like Wraithguard. Dark Eldar is a little rough with nightshields but once you pop those vehicles get ready to dump pie plates and instant death the HQ types. Orks are really fun to melt, even if they have a Mekboy running with them.

• Burst vs Charged Shot: I rarely find myself using the charged shot unless I'm shooting at a vehicle. I still don't particularly like giving myself 3 chances to roll a 1, as I said above a Librarian is good if you're planning on using the burst mode. Aside from a demolisher cannon I can't think of any large blast AP2 weapon that the Adeptus have in their arsenal excluding superheavy units.

 

It’s not a land raider where you can just run the thing up the battlefield and get to killing, it’s going to require terrain cover, and you managing your opponent’s decisions on whether or not to shoot at it. Don’t give them a reason to shoot at it, or put them in a dilemma in which they have to choose. Sure it can be glanced, but with a Darkshroud or cover it can get itself a 4+ save, and if you run a tech marine you might be able to manage some hull points. My last point I also consider important. The LSV I don't see as a unit that is at all a must have in any TAC list. If you know your opponent's codex, you can use it to your advantage

 

Good luck and happy hunting!

 

Edit: One last thing I forgot. With the way vehicle measuring is, dont forget that the 24" is a little less given how lonnnnnng the front of the LSV is, dont forget to pivot the LSV sideways when firing. Armor facing is almost pointless considering how easy it is to hit given its size, and the fact you can throw caution into the wind with the 10 10 10. Show them your ass if you want!!

[Disciple of Caliban Sgt]

Thanks Sven,

 

I've always wanted to get and use one of these (honestly I think it and Sammael are the only models I don't have of DA anymore) but I haven't gotten the money or figured out how to make it work.

 

I know a lot of what you stated was Ravenwing any ideas for Greenwing support?

 

DoC

[Syphid]

I've considered using one to support deep striking units, deep striking on the table before dropping an AP2 pie plate.

[FlamingDeth]

The price of the LSV is ridiculous. It's more than a vindicator and I can't think of a situation where it's better, even for supporting deep strikers. Those generally come in turn 2+, and it's not hard to have a vindicator in position by then, with a stronger blast to boot. Maybe the multishot mode could be useful but for less points you could put a command squad in a rhino with plasma guns for that. Maybe if it was ~90 points they'd sell more models.

 

The other problem with it is that the model looks silly.

[shabbadoo]

The main problem is that the weapon has a 1-in-6 chance of doing a glancing hit to the Land Speeder Vengeance itself (when it only has 2 hull points)...and not firing the shot *at all*. The plasma pie plate is a good effect (because at least you only have a 1-in-6 chance of kicking your own butt), but the also not firing a shot bit is the real killer. For the cost, compare it to a Leman Russ Exterminator, or to a Demolisher as others have. The multi-fire mode has more of chance of doing something to the enemy, but there is also a good chance that simply firing it in that mode two or three times will take take out the Land Speeder Vengeance itself. The Land Speeder Vengeance's movement capabilities in no way make up for all of its shortcomings, which is, sadly, pretty much everything else about it. It really is a pretty crappy unit. If there were no chance to damage its fragile self (i.e the plasma storm battery happened to be "ancient and advanced tech" and not subject to the Gets Hot! rule), then it would be useful. As it is, it is simply way to vulnerable/ineffective for its cost.

 

Also, the OP is off on one thing. The LS Vengeance has *TWO* hull points, not three, so *TWO* glancing hits takes it out. Yep. don't even bother using multi-fire mode unless you want to kill yourself.

[Master Avoghai]

If there were no chance to damage its fragile self (i.e the plasma storm battery happened to be "ancient and advanced tech" and not subject to the Gets Hot! rule), then it would be useful.

... Or just make the weapon as it looks : twin-linked. It will lower the risk of get hot while making the weapon more effective.

[Interrogator Stobz]

And give it a 36" range like the 'smaller' plasma cannon. To help it keep out of small arms range, AV10 all around is wacked.

[BrotherLibrarianGiles]

Remember though, in the end of "Gets Hot":

"A vehicle suffers a glancing hit on a further roll of 1, 2, or 3 each time the weapon Gets Hot."

It's not a lot, but something. Which is why I would make sure I fire only at targets on which the blast is useful, or make every effort to make make such situations.


 

[Interrogator Stobz]

I wouldn't overly worry about glancing yourself to death, with the short range and crappy  armour and OK threat potential from the PSB it's going to die the next round to any S4 and above weapons. Nearly every unit in the game can and will kill it once it has finished it's one round of pew-pew.

[shabbadoo]

And so I am a victim of the "Read the rest of the sentence, ya moron!" thing (I hate it when that happens!). :D

 

Hmmm...

 

"For each roll of a 1, the weapon Gets Hot, the firing model suffers a Wound (armor saves or invulnerable saves can be taken) and that shot is not fired."

 

"A vehicle instead suffers a glancing hit on a further roll of a 1, 2, or 3 each time the weapon Gets Hot."

 

That would mean, for vehicles, the shot is still fired.  That makes quite a difference as to utility (but not regarding fragility), but the price is still a bit too high.

[Dark_Master]

I will not be getting a LSV ever, bad model and stats.

 

Why would you when for 10pts more you can get a Plasma Destroyer Predator with Lascannon Sponsons?

 

The plasma destroyer has a longer range, is heavy 3 blast and DOESN'T get hot!

 

DM

[march10k]

And so I am a victim of the "Read the rest of the sentence, ya moron!" thing (I hate it when that happens!). :D

 

Hmmm...

 

"For each roll of a 1, the weapon Gets Hot, the firing model suffers a Wound (armor saves or invulnerable saves can be taken) and that shot is not fired."

 

"A vehicle instead suffers a glancing hit on a further roll of a 1, 2, or 3 each time the weapon Gets Hot."

 

That would mean, for vehicles, the shot is still fired. That makes quite a difference as to utility (but not regarding fragility), but the price is still a bit too high.

I'm not sure...depends. Is it "instead of taking a wound" (duh, it's a vehicle), in which case still no shot fired (and they are stupid for not specifying "instead of taking a wound") Or is it "instead of the rule for models with a toughness and wounds," in which case the use of the "instead" is stupid, they should have written two separate rules without implying that the first rule is being modified. Really wretched rules-writing. As usual. These fart-huffers need an editor!

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Gentlemen, this is a tactica thread, not a rant thread or a wish-list thread. Let's keep it as such.

[xFaithBx]

Hey all I know im new here but have been playing for many years and like to use qwerky units and fluffy armies, I know at first I will loose alot untill I find a use for each unit or find some sort of synergy. And so after several games I'm im going to half buck the trend here by saying I quite like the LSV, yes its poorly costed and the vindicator has more staying power but in my all raven wing lists it nearly always makes its points back or dies in such a way to open up an opportunity for another unit to hit where I want them to. The thing I have found, for me personally is that an all raven wing army has to be played super aggressively, no dark shrouds or anything like that for me, so the LSV works for my lists. I know there is alot better out there but kinda have a soft spot for the ugly duckling :D its always out on its own or in a seemingly pointless spot but my regular opponents only under estimate it once, the next they over estimate it which then plays into my hands fine :)

[captain sox]

I field one every game. It's how I roll. Never deepstrike your speeders. Remember your Jink saves, and above all, use it to wipe out any unit you like. Ask my Grey Knight and Necron opponents what they think of the vengeance.... I've wiped out units worth more that the speeder costs, and I swear by it. It becomes a priority, fast.

 

I converted a regular speeder to look like dis:

 

http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a496/Odogg242/photo2_zps2a3a18c3.jpg

 

Cannon bits readily available online. it does the trick.

[Kabbala]

That's a novel and cost effective conversion. However, it feels a little like modeling for advantage as it's significantly smaller than the vengeance.

 

Anyway, I've fielded the LSV on several occasions and as with many aspects of game, utilizing cover is key. You can't just put it in the middle of the table in the wide open, be selective with your target and adjust to battlefield. If your not utilizing enough terrain on the table, that's a different topic.

[[TA]Typher]

I've never used one, but i have fought against them theee times now with my deathwing.

 

They never survive round two, and so far haven't killed anything. Stormbolters alone easily take them down.

 

I suppose you could spam them for better effect, but as been stated, there are usually better options.

[darkangel1030]

Thanks SvenONE, the LSV is next on my to get list. I'm def a fluff list builder and am looking forward to getting it on the table.

[march10k]

I have a darkshroud on my to-do list...I don't really play ravenwing, but it's a really cool model, and I want to chin-mount the gun and put a chaplain in the "pulpit."  LSV...just doesn't inspire me as DA-like, let alone RW-like.  Sure, plasma weapon, and it's a speeder, but those are superficialities, it doesn't have the unforgiven, fallen-hunting vibe that  I get from the DS and DT.

[Hidicul]

I like the LSV, and for rave wing its better then the Vind. Granted I use a librarian on bike and tech priest on bike both with PFGs so it gets the 4+ and I can repair it and twin-link it as needed. Through in black knights with RGL and it instant kills most things that need to die.