Making Sisters Cool

[Shuggnuggath]

I think they could perhaps use an expanded variety of themes. One of the benefits of Marines is that the chapters are all different in appearance, background, fighting style, outlook and so on. This gives Marines a broad appeal, there are so many different chapters that some of them are bound to grab your interest. In my opinion the SoB are too uniform, there needs do be more distinction between the different fighting orders. 

 

Obviously plastic models would give us more opportunity to customise and convert our armies to stand out from each other a bit more. I also think they could use a gunship/flying transport kit and some kind of mobile battle shrine/heavy tank might be an interesting addition. 

[Nomus Sardauk]

I think they could perhaps use an expanded variety of themes. One of the benefits of Marines is that the chapters are all different in appearance, background, fighting style, outlook and so on. This gives Marines a broad appeal, there are so many different chapters that some of them are bound to grab your interest. In my opinion the SoB are too uniform, there needs do be more distinction between the different fighting orders.

 

Seconded, one of the Sister's biggest problems in my eyes (and this sort of ties in with the lack of multi-pose plastic kits) is that the Battle Sisters, Celestians, Retributors and Dominion Squads all use the same freaking one-pose metal models, with varying amounts of special/heavy weapons as their only real difference. The Celestians alone would benefit immensely from having new, re-designed models as they're supposed to be the Order's elite, the most devout among the faithful, the most lethal among warriors, the most blessed among the the holy armies. And yet, unless the owner goes to the trouble of specifically marking them as such, no-one would be able to tell them apart from the rank-and-file sisters just by looking at them! What they need is a kit that really sets them apart, that personifies their nature as the Emperor's divine crusaders, his wrathful daughters come to burn away sin and shine His Light even in the darkest corners.

A good example of what I'm trying to get across is the new Tempestus Scions as compared to a basic guardsman, the differences between the two are readily apparent, the Scion's gear is ornate and well-crafted, with lots of extra gear and details like the helmet's built-in rebreather, the little scanner/camera-thing over their left shoulder and right down to the tactical interface readout/Pipboy 40k thingamajig on their right forearm. The Guardsman on the other hand, his uniform is dull and wholely functional with little-to-no decoration beyond the Guard Emblem on the helmet and the Aquila on the brestplate to mark his alliegiance. His armour is lightweight and basic, looking more like something stamped out in a factory than forged with care. Their equipment is also decidedly minimalist, one or two grenades, a water flask and a combat knife that the guardsman will probably never get a chance to use. If the basic Battle Sisters are the Guardsmen, then the Celestians are the Scions and their appearance should reflect this in similiar ways.

 

Another problem with the Sisters I'd like to bring up is their weapons, now I know it's part of their background with the whole "holy trinity" of Boltgun, Flamer and Melta but unfortunately this restricted selection of arms means Sororitas players don't have much choice when it comes to tailoring their troops to deal with certain threats, one of the most promenent being armour-heavy foes. I can't imagine how disheartening it must be for you guys and gals when some Astra Militarum Imperial Guard player opens up his case and starts laying down tank after tank after tank after tank knowing that the only weapons you have capable of slagging those tread-heads only has a range of 24 inches at best, let alone how hopeless it must feel upon realising you still have to get another 12 inches closer to gain the extra D6 penetration. The fact that their Leman Russ' battle cannons can pulp power armoured foes and wreck Rhinos with equal ease must make victory seem an impossible task to achieve, and that's before taking into account their foot troops.

 

Another problem with the Sisters weapons is the lack of missle launchers, or any other type of possible anti-aircraft weapon. With the rise of Flyers in recent years you're left with even more of a disadvantage from a complete and utter lack of any counter against such threats which, be they troop-filled Valykries, marauding Ork Fighta-Bombaz or (Emperor forbid) Baleflamer-toting Heldrakes, only have worry about possibly a few lucky snapshots.

[walter h]

SanguiniusReborn, is spot on. That is the problem in a nut shell. 

The models are also old ,or dated.

Re launching the SOB, with all plastics,would give an opportunity to redesign the range.

Sadly the Codex,was just recently released just last year.

[Fibonacci]

 I can't imagine how disheartening it must be for you guys and gals when some Astra Militarum Imperial Guard player opens up his case and starts laying down tank after tank after tank after tank knowing that the only weapons you have capable of slagging those tread-heads only has a range of 24 inches at best, let alone how hopeless it must feel upon realising you still have to get another 12 inches closer to gain the extra D6 penetration. The fact that their Leman Russ' battle cannons can pulp power armoured foes and wreck Rhinos with equal ease must make victory seem an impossible task to achieve, and that's before taking into account their foot troops.

:lol:

Honestly?  I try to hide my smile.

There are some weakness in the army but dealing with AV14 is not one of them especially when that armor comes in squadrons (so that overkill -- and there is a lot at times -- rolls over to the next target) with AV10 or 11 rear armor, too.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, Sisters don't hurt for ways to take out armour or infantry. As Fib says bigger and tougher vehicles are actually preferable targets! :P Of course you've got to get close enough to apply all this but who wants things easy? :)

[Fibonacci]

Of course you've got to get close enough to apply all this but who wants things easy?

It's not like you have to get "that" unit in close. You just have to get a unit in close. After all, how many units do the AS have that do not typically carry melta weapons? Rhinos, Exorcists and Repentia? You gotta be careful though; there may be a chainfist hidden in the Repentia squad. ;)

[sitnam]

I assume if sisters were to get a revitalization we'd actually see some of the gaps in the army list filled in anyways. Perhaps some sort of flyer, a heavy front line tank in comparison to the exorcist, new weapon option s to fit within the holy trinity.

[Dread]

An assault vehicle of their own. Maybe drop pods. Access to the Redeemer (come on, y'all can tell it was really aimed at for the holy trinity) just change the assault cannons to heavy bolters. Give them their holy ammo back (not just for GK). But they are still a cool army even with the old models, just expensive. And trust me, I've been waiting for plastics as long as all the other vet sisters players but patience is a virtue (see kinda goes with the holy theme, haha).

[WarriorFish]

Of course you've got to get close enough to apply all this but who wants things easy?

It's not like you have to get "that" unit in close. You just have to get a unit in close. After all, how many units do the AS have that do not typically carry melta weapons? Rhinos, Exorcists and Repentia? You gotta be careful though; there may be a chainfist hidden in the Repentia squad.

When up against the Guard close is always a relative term

The only thing we truly lack is AA, but that can be accessed elsewhere through an Aegis or FW if available Maybe GW will release a new Exo kit along with the new plastics, and we'll get an anti-air version that's the same but with shorter barrels...

[Parn]

I kind of like the flavorful lack of AA in the codex. It truly makes me think about how (or if) I want to deal with the possibility from list to list.

 

Competitive players could look at the avenger for it, while lore players will look to allies for blasting airborne threats. Make that navy do something useful for the eclesiarcy.

 

It is a restriction that can be worked around, and sets sororitas apart.

 

As for guard tank armies... outflanking dominions are probably all too happy to meet your armor squads... nothing like heaping mounds of slag to reassure you that the heretics have been punished. In all seriousness, though, all comers armies are not nearly as universally effective as they imply. IG tank armies and green tide orc armies are kind of polar examples, so take what you want from them as measuring devices.

 

I'll post more specific thoughts on the sororitas and my responses to the initial thread when I can get home on my desktop. Just wanted to dive into the conversation before I lost my train of thought.

[DasPanzerIstUber]

All they need are overpowered units and special rules and everyone would jump on the bandwagon. Beautiful new models are also bound to attract a lot of interest.

[Calistai]

The way I see it we really just need a Proper codex and new models of the modular variety.

 

As to a actual proper codex, I'd dearly like to see more Special Character HQ choices (Seraphim/Domi/retri canoness types with there own fluff and special rules/warlord traits etc.)

 

Celestian's becoming worth while.. Repentia getting a Assault transport.. And by all that's holy, Penitent Engine's becoming MC's and made an Elite choice.

 

Marines get scouts.. We really should have carapace wearing shotgun wielding Neonate's as a second troop choice, or something.

 

Seraphim and Dominion's are fine currently, a third fast attack option would be a bonus, thinking bike's or.. Actual CC seraphim, say power lance's and lesser Storm shield's.

 

Retri's need something to make them worth taking instead of Exorcists, Skyfire maybe? Special rounds?

 

Some kind of Battle tank that's Sister's orientated.

 

Some Matt Ward madness wouldn't go amiss either tbh.

[Nomus Sardauk]

Some Matt Ward madness wouldn't go amiss either tbh.

Be careful what you wish for...

[Sanguine_Knight]

Well I was just browsing this forum and came upon this thread.

I would really like to start a SoB army but never have simply because of price, availability and no plastic. The codex thing doesn't bother me as much because barring C:SM any codex is liable to be retconned, overhauled, forgotten or simply flushed down the toilet at any time and I have just learned to live with it. I could be wrong but I think I've also noticed a lack of any kind of vehicle with anti armour capabilities. That's kind of a turn off as well.

I think they are cool though. The whole idea of a militarized force of all female zealots who will unquestioningly do the bidding of an all powerful and often times capricious, religious governing body needs to be explored more. I mean if some Cardinal doesn't like you, he can call you a heretic and then you're dead regardless of your level of faith. Just think if he doesn't like your city or your planet. Enter the Sisters.

Other than the Repentia, wh0 could be toned down a bit, I don't find their look overly sexual. There is always something sexy about a woman you can't have. But one that will gut you with a chainsword or put a bolt round through your head if you so much as look at her the wrong way? That might be even more sexy.

Just my two cents

SK

Now this I think is interesting... Assuming the current state of things remains constant; is there anything that GW could alter regarding theme, aesthetic, profile, exposure etc with adepta sororitas that would spur you to start a Battle sisters force, even though the model availability and price have not changed?

PS: Our main tank-killer vehicle is the Multi-melta immolator, though the Exorcist can do well vs light armour

I actually want to start one but I use what little money I have to spend on buying marines. When I finally get everything I want I'll have to consider Sisters.

What I think GW could do is give them a real codex with good fluff (maybe even fulfill my dream and produce some Arbites rules and models to go along with them ) But seriously I think they could do with a some new plastic sculpts and and maybe a new fluffy unit or two and that would go along way to give them the exposure they need.

As I said I'm sold on their cool factor in general, they could just use a little love from GW.

SK

[*Furyou Miko]

I do find it interesting to come back after a month and read that what several people want to make Sisters more attractive... is units that aren't Sisters (Arbites, Inquisition, etc)...

[Nomus Sardauk]

I do find it interesting to come back after a month and read that what several people want to make Sisters more attractive... is units that aren't Sisters (Arbites, Inquisition, etc)...

Not me, new units would be nice but they need updated models for the current ones first!

[*Furyou Miko]

I agree, I want updated models for the Sisters rather than to dilute my list with goobers, but I thought it was worth commenting on.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

In fairness Inquisition is not a bad thing, afterall I would love to go back the the Witch Hunter days.

Wouldn't you? 

[Eddie Orlock]

I do find it interesting to come back after a month and read that what several people want to make Sisters more attractive... is units that aren't Sisters (Arbites, Inquisition, etc)...

In fairness Inquisition is not a bad thing, afterall I would love to go back the the Witch Hunter days.

Wouldn't you?

I share your sentiments, Duke, but looking at the current rules regime, I think the general expectation is that the exotic stuff will continue to find itself relegated to its own exotic codices. With the right allied abuses, we can simulate most of the witchhunter goodness already. Just wish I had a good way to simulate my Frateris Militia.

[Fibonacci]

If I were going to roll back, I would go to pre-Witch Hunters.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

If I were going to roll back, I would go to pre-Witch Hunters.

 

If we are going back that far i want my Angels of Death Codex back. :P

 

 

 

 

 

I'm Curious Eddie Orlock, what is your militia? 

[Eddie Orlock]

I'm Curious Eddie Orlock, what is your militia? 

Shortly after the release of 'Dex WitchHunters they released a chapter approved with the miitias in it. Forty odd figures with close combat weapons, one in five had an evicerator, in two groups of twenty. They were troops, but didn't fill compulsory slots. I also had a band of ten with a brace of heavy stubbers that tended to hide on my home marker and avoid attracting attention. They had a nifty rule that counted all moral modifiers as positive, which for a while was situationally better than fearless.

 

The figures themselves wound up largely being an excuse to field all those odds and bobs that found their way into my collection over the years including things like the Mordheim Frenzied Mob and a handful of Brettonian Grail Pilgrims. The Redeemer lead on of my units. I do miss the excuse to field that random assortment.

[carpediem]

Other than the apparent lack of presence in the fluff, the complete absence of codex, and the dire models....

 

*aside* God-Emperor they're going to skin me alive for saying this.

 

...the Sisters of Battle have always felt faintly, well, monotone. GW has put the sum total of no work into differentiating the various orders beyond the Militant/Hospitalier/Dialogous/Famulous divisions, and these are all still variations on the theme of Catholic nuns with a side of bolt-shell and promethium. Meanwhile the Space Marines can be anything from sparkly vampires, to Ancient Egyptian arch-mages, to Native American ninjas (and that's just the first founding chapters) without anyone batting an eyelid. The Marines have great, inspiring leaders, with great, inspiring, quotes and great, inspiring, deeds to their names. What do the Sisters get? Alicia Dominica and companions (six sentences, precious little characterization), Saint Celestine (no quotes, no characterization), and Ephreal Stern (lots of both, but in a comic that is borderline impossible to find; believe me I have tried). My thing is fanfiction, not gaming, so there isn't a great deal I can say about tabletop performance and modelling (though if I do ever acquire SoB models, the first thing I'll do is apply greenstuff to those boob-plates; they're a shell trap and a hazard to the sternum), but the Adeptus Sororitas have never managed to raise more than a faint "meh" from me; the Orks hold more interest. 

 

The Sisters (who have every right to be interesting, damn it!) almost feel like a bad consolation prize for the exclusion of women from the Space Marines, by way of soft-core bondage porn.

 

To sum up: novels please, and a codex if possible, and whilst this is pushing things a bit, some more depth. Pseudo-Buddhist space nuns, par example? The Imperial faith should be a many colored, diverse, and fractious thing (especially if syncretism is a practice of the Ecclesiarchy, which I think it would have to be, for logistical reasons), not a monoculture; look at the sheer level of variation in Christian belief alone across the surface of M2 Terra.

[*Furyou Miko]

Syncretism is an Ecclesiarchy practice! Much like the roman catholic church, rather than telling people that they're wrong, their method of conversion is to say "Well, yes, but if you look at it this way, your gods are really just saints in service to..." (with the almost total exception of the Ruinous Powers, although there are some Khorne cults that have been converted, see for reference: death cults).

 

I will admit, I had not thought of alternate methods of worship, partly because where the Marines had twenty founding chapters, the Sisters had one. The Founding of the Adepta Sororitas is more akin to the Second Founding, when the Legions were split into Chapters, than it has in common with the First Founding.

 

I do agree that the Orders need more differentiation and simply more information in general. Order-based supplements would go a long way towards populising the Sisterhood, because lets face it, anyone who doesn't play Sisters just assumes they're all black and red.

[WarriorFish]

I think that's in part due to the age of the Sister stuff. GW has added a lot of stuff to armies since then so I'm sure we'll get plenty of new blurb and units when we get a proper update :) As usual it comes down to the same thing: new models.