Lord Tarkin Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Hi all, got a quick question regarding the rule of a forgeworld. Who holds ultimate authority over a forgeworld? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributis Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I would assume Alan Merrett, head of GW's IP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 The forgemaster as far as we know; the apex of Mechanicum superiority. So the world would be under the fold of the Mechanicum first, and the Imperium second (?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tarkin Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 I refer to the planet "forgeworld" not the website. Notice i said fluff question Thanks Kais Klip. What exactly is a Magos then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Magos or arch Magos. Some have joint ad mech and imp garrisons, like the world in Titan. Some are solely as mech, Mars Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecialIssue Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 De jure, ultimate authority lies with Mars, and the Fabricator General who has a seat on the High Lords of Terra. Mars continues to levy the right to knowledge of all technologies of every forgeworld in the Imperium, and if they know about it, they will enforce it. As the seat of the Cult Mechanicus, they also enforce their religious orthodoxy against forgeworlds guilty of tech-heresy. De facto, due to the difficulties in maintaining communication through an unstable warp and across the vast galaxy, as with all governance in the Imperium, actual everyday authority is on a much more local level. The archmagos of each forge world will have considerable leeway to do stuff as they want and get away with it, and otherwise conduct business as they wish, as long as they continue to pay technological tribute to Mars, and Mars doesn't hear about any HERESY. Forge worlds are the personal medieval fiefdoms of their archmagos, able to independently negotiate with other factions on their own and generally are independent of everyone else, even other Admech forces. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tarkin Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Thanks y'all, really appreciate the feedback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributis Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I refer to the planet "forgeworld" not the website. Notice i said fluff question Thanks Kais Klip. What exactly is a Magos then? Duh, sorry! :P "Early" morning reading issues! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 See, I just thought you were joking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 On the planet itself an Arch Magos. In overall termes the Fabricator General on Mars Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tarkin Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 Its cool retributis. I know the feeling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributis Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 See, I just thought you were joking. Why didn't I think to play it off as this earlier... Dammit! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3624596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 The new knight book talks a bit about it as well. It appears a region of space might have an ad mech council for a number of ad mech worlds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3625178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tarkin Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 Oh. I mean to buy that book. Thanks for that Haranin. I have yet another reason to get it :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3625438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haranin Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Its a good read, even though for $24 its a bit short. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3627709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tarkin Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Well, thats GW for ya. Everything is getting more expensive. The models themselves are financial-nukes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3628600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuclear Fridge Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Well, thats GW for ya. Everything is getting more expensive. The models themselves are financial-nukes I'm just glad I still have a pile of models I bought about 10 years ago that I still have to paint up... the cost for the SM Centurions made my eyes water! The forge world that's the setting of Titanicus (is it Orestes?) is a mixed AdMech/Imperial holding, with a longstanding history of unease and low-level tension between the two sides. The Imperial governor, for instance, says that he's sure that the AdMech would cut the Imperium off the moment they thought their own interests weren't being considered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3873578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battybattybats Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I may be misremembering as i don't have my many books with me right now, but i thought that each world has it's own council of top-Arch-Magos (each a master of their specialist field/faction) ruled over by a local Fabricator General of that forgeworld, sharing the same title but of course not rank as the overall Fabricator General back on Mars?Extermination Book 3 iirc details the hierarchy of the Mechanicum era forgeworlds and (again iirc) describes them as more feudal and more independent than the later Adeptus Mechanicus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3873607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
miteyheroes Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The ...Of Mars trilogy features a chap called a Magos who controlled several Forge Worlds, and a forge on Mars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3873660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronozoah Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 In short, the Adeptus Mechanicus. They own the means to production for Imperial establishments and forces. The Fabricator-General (who has a seat among the High Lords of Terra) holds jurisdiction over the Forgeworlds of the Imperium, though given the sheer scale (as has been mentioned) of Imperium-controlled space and the nuances of being at the head of such a vast and resourceful faction, he rarely participates in the day-to-day operation and maintenance of Forgeworlds, leaving such tasks and considerations to a relevant Magos group or individual (likely of high rank). For certain locations or strategic resources, is is probably (and precedented) that there would be co-ownership of certain Forgeworlds. That would be a (brief) summation of the knowledge I have acquired on the subject at any rate. The Imperial governor, for instance, says that he's sure that the AdMech would cut the Imperium off the moment they thought their own interests weren't being considered. I doubt that would end well for any party involved. The forgemaster as far as we know; the apex of Mechanicum superiority. So the world would be under the fold of the Mechanicum first, and the Imperium second (?). Most likely. Though the Mechanicum are officially an integrated part of the Imperium with similar beliefs and aims, they are for all intents and purposes, a separate faction with their own aims and methodologies. An official and simplistic stance on the matter would be that a Forgeworld is simply controlled by the Imperium (as an extension of being controlled by an AdMech representative), however, a more specific (and accurate) conclusion to draw would be that the Adetus Mechanicus own the Forgeworlds, and thus any workers there follow orders handed down from an Adeptus Mechanicus representative directly (special arrangements and requisitions aside). Mechanicum protocol and procedure are directly upheld regardless of official stance or sanctions. That is not to say that other collectives within the Imperium have no authority on the operation of Forgeworlds as a whole, though, nor does it mean that Forgeworlds necessarily act outside of the interests of the Imperium. However, as mentioned previously, these arrangements (along with the vast distances between known worlds and establishments) ensure that individual worlds have some amount of freedom in terms of operating parameters. Should there be issues with procedures or issues with hereteks, the Adeptus Mechanicus moves to rectify the issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3873734 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The ...Of Mars trilogy features a chap called a Magos who controlled several Forge Worlds, and a forge on Mars. That sounds like he is first and foremost a Martian Magos, master of one of the Martian forges. With Mars being the ascendant Forge World, the Mechanicum's capital world, a Martian Magos could outrank senior archmagos of lesser Forge Worlds, and could have authority over them, like vassal or satellite states. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3873741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battybattybats Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 While i don't have my books with me it also may be the case we have background conflicts from different sources.Might be time for people to start adding citations so we can compare?My memory is of course fallible, and the sources i've been trying to remember from include the 2nd ed boxed set background book which is old-canon, The Battlefleet Gothic Explorator article which iirc was the origin of a lot of key Mechanicus background material including the 16 Universal Laws though again not the strongest of canon source being additional material to a game which is itself side-material to 40k as well as the FFG Dark Heresy material including the Inquisitors Handbook which has additional Forgeworld Background material and the Lathe Worlds sourcebook which goes into depth on the Adeptus Mechanicus of the Calixis Sector which are great sources of cool ideas and material but of course less strong as canon sources being 2nd-party licensed material, and lastly Forgeworld's Heresy Book 3 which of course deals with the heresy-era Mechanicum and so may be divergent from the later Adeptus Mechanicus lore.And all that is just from recollection so direct quotes and citations will be much better, and help us weigh and measure the strength of any conflicts.For example, i think McNeil's Mechanicus books (and i'm including Knights of the Imperium in that because it has some great extra Mechanicus info in that book) are fantastic, adding a wealth of great ideas and characters to Mechanicus lore, but BL could edit their books a bit more strongly as they did let a few blatant inconsistencies through for example an Astartes dies from a wound to his heart, no mention of there being a second redundant one so it's entirely possible other inconsistencies arose in terms used for Adeptus Mechanicus ranks.So i think we should check source material. Sorry that i can't myself right now though as i'm away from my books for the moment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3874137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusara217 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 an Astartes dies from a wound to his heart, no mention of there being a second redundant one Whoever wrote that does not deserve to be a writer Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3874855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battybattybats Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Whoever wrote that does not deserve to be a writer No whoever edited that is likely at fault, it may simply be the misstype of hearts as heart a missing single letter. and even if not they should hav caught the inconsistency and had it fixed. Nearly every 40k novel i've read has let some inconsistency or other slip through. From minor to much more severe than that. After all one of the first 40k novels (think it was in Bill Kings early Space Wolves series) had space marine scouts piloting a titan after just eating a crew members brain, no MIU implants or special neural archiecture required . Or what about the short story by Ian Watson in the first 40k short story collection where Genestealers do not notice they are being infiltrated by a two-armed polymorphine-using Assassin when the Assassin is not linked to the Hive Mind? Or how about the novelisation of Space Hulk where the wargear and description of several characters was got wrong No inconsistencies happen. And 40k has had major changes of background over the years so there's tons of them. Remember when Zoats were the majority of Tyranid forces, a slave-race kept controlled by their diet of Zoatibix other than small indpendent groups of rebel Zoats? Remember when Dark Angels were Native Americans with names like Two-Heads-Talking and Fierce-Weasel? Remember when Leman Russ had his lungs burned out and had an Osmotic Gill cybernetic installed to breathe? Remember when the Mentor Legion was the chapter that tested out new technology? Remember when the Desert Lions Chapter included Legio Cybernetica Robots posthumously as Space Marines for their bravery? Remember when the Blood Axe tribe of Orks regularly allied with the Imperial Guard? Remember when Genestealers and Orks sometimes turned to Chaos? Remember when Imperial and Genestealer forces used suicide-bombers? Remember when the Adepta Sororitas existed to destroy Marine Chapters who turned traitor? Remember when the Emperor had sons he didn't know existed who were psychically invisible to him with Jedi-style psi-close-combat powers and who could turn Chaos Champions back from Chaos and who might be the key to turning the Emperors lost compassion (psychically excised in order to get past his caing for Horus enough to kill him) which was already a minor power in the warp into a major one that would stabilise the warp and counter the power of the chaos gods? Remember when the Mechanicus wore White Robes not Red ones? (both were conflicting said and shown in the 1st ed rulebook!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3875000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Remember when Zoats were the majority of Tyranid forces, a slave-race kept controlled by their diet of Zoatibix other than small indpendent groups of rebel Zoats? Who knows, they may yet one day return ;) GW seem to be going through a nostalgia phase in the rules at the moment (they even brought back spore pods for Nids). Remember when Dark Angels were Native Americans with names like Two-Heads-Talking and Fierce-Weasel? Well that's not accurate. The story isn't meant to be taken literally, its a fable told to initiates to allude to the Chapter's secret mission without giving it away. Quite obviously, the Deathwing never painted their armour white because of links to their homeworld (they have all memory of their origins purged from them remember?). But it's a good story and reinforces a lot of the Chapter's key beliefs and values. Remember when Leman Russ had his lungs burned out and had an Osmotic Gill cybernetic installed to breathe? Primarchs don't generally lose organ function, they have insane regenerative capability. So I think it's more awesome he just grew his lungs back ;) Remember when the Mentor Legion was the chapter that tested out new technology? Well that never really made much sense. The Ad Mech don't release new tech to the Astartes without extensive testing themselves (and they reserve a lot of technology for their private use anyway). And new tech would usually be granted to the Inquisition or Deathwatch first, especially if its experimental (hellfire bolts etc). Remember when the Desert Lions Chapter included Legio Cybernetica Robots posthumously as Space Marines for their bravery? Again, weird and awkward given how the Legio has been described in 30k. I'm not even sure if they're considered extant in the current 40k timeline. Remember when the Blood Axe tribe of Orks regularly allied with the Imperial Guard? Allies of Convenience ;) Remember when Genestealers and Orks sometimes turned to Chaos? Well the first instance is retarded, because Genestealers are Tyranids, and Tyranids are all the extension of one singular conciousness in the warp. They're already psychic puppets, and the Hive Mind is so powerful it actually silences the warp around it. Orks turning to Chaos is still a thing, they're found on Space Hulks sometimes. There is even that story in the Ork codex of that warband that landed on a Daemon world and fights for eternity now. Remember when Imperial and Genestealer forces used suicide-bombers? Special Weapon teams with demo-charges ;) also I imagine Tyranid cultists would use suicide bombers still. Remember when the Adepta Sororitas existed to destroy Marine Chapters who turned traitor? Extra dumb, and completely contradicts their founding backstory. You don't send unaugmented humans to fight post-human crusaders from antiquity. Remember when the Emperor had sons he didn't know existed who were psychically invisible to him with Jedi-style psi-close-combat powers and who could turn Chaos Champions back from Chaos and who might be the key to turning the Emperors lost compassion (psychically excised in order to get past his caing for Horus enough to kill him) which was already a minor power in the warp into a major one that would stabilise the warp and counter the power of the chaos gods? I'm pretty happy that's gone. Although they are bringing Eternals in the HH series, so wait and see. Remember when the Mechanicus wore White Robes not Red ones? (both were conflicting said and shown in the 1st ed rulebook!) Red makes more sense. White is usually a symbol of purity and piety. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/288195-who-holds-authority-over-a-forge-world/#findComment-3875452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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