Abhumans and Cadians

[-Volsung-]

So I am considering doing a Cadian army, but I want to make it the most rag-tag and diverse compilation of Imperial Guardsmen, something like a Rebel Alliance feel of a Cadian Regiment that is fighting as the underdog in a campaign, helping loyalist resistance and outnumbered by xenos and/or renegades.

 

I think it would be an interesting concept, because the Cadians are anything but rag-tag, but could easily become that way if they find themselves cut off in a theatre where the balance is against them but where their legendary qualities allow them to survive for longer periods where lesser regimental army groups would have been annihilated.

 

Accordingly, I envision an army where Karskin sit and eat in the mess hall across from Ogryns and Whiteshields , where the Ratling chef has his sniper rifle hanging on a rack by the grill and fryer in the kitchen where his ratling team of cooks are trading stolen astartes boltgun shells in exchange for obscura and lho, where senior officers eat alongside the enlisted men because the officer mess hall took a mortar when the enemies attacked the LZ forward base camp  the night before.

 

Thus, my question center around how Cadians recruit or treat abhumans. Do Ogryns and Ratlings grow up on Cadia and thus are taken into the guardsmen under specialized training programs? Are they permanently attached from wherever they come from?

[Idlem]

Ratlings and Ogyrns do not grow up on Cadia. They're specifically drafted from their own worlds and formed into Auxilia Legions that are then attached to different regiments for however long they're needed. After a campaign, if the regiment survives and is not gutted and formed into a new regiment, they probably keep their Auxilia Legions. It is part of the Commissar's job to ensure the units integrate with their new regiment as smoothly as possible.

 

How a regiment would treat them would be up to your own fluff. I don't recall any concrete canon on how Cadians treat their abhumans, but I can guess. Ogyrns are very loyal and take bullets for their friends, qualities that anyone could appreciate. They're also pretty dim and have horrible hygiene, so you've got to balance that out with what perceptions would be. Ratlings would be a mixed bag, cause they're great cooks and can get anything a soldier could want, but they do raise the petty crime rate in a regiment so the Commissars would be even more vigilant over the troops and nobody wants the Commissar breathing down their necks.

 

Overall, the thing that makes Cadians special is their discipline. They are one of, if not the most, disciplined Imperial Guardmen the Imperium has. So again, my feeling on the matter is that any treatment toward Abhumans that would be detrimental to the ability of the regiment would not be tolerated. This is the Imperium, and a lot of people dislike Abhumans, but at the same time, they're Cadians, and if keeping your thoughts private on Abhumans serves the regiment best, then they keep it private.

 

Finally, as for a "rag-tag" band of Cadians, they could easily be a regiment formed from the survivors of depleted regiments. Say the regiments 123 and 145 got folded together and what was left was a plucky band of survivors and the newly promoted Colonel never had "formal" officer training and is running the regiment out of gut feelings. It's really up to you, as these aren't Space Marines, they're guardsmen. Normal people who can be as varied or different as however you want.

[WarriorFish]

Idlem covers it nicly! You can also be sure that the Cadians would have witnessed what Ogryns and Ratlings are capable of on the battlefield and would respect what they bring to the regiment if nothing else.

 

Your idea is a good one, very characterful and not against the background. Cadians are always Cadians, so would be equally disciplined on the parade ground or in their dishevelled forward camp :)

[-Volsung-]

Thank you for the responses!

 

I'm also considering adding some Catachans or Elysian troops to the mix (no more than 5 of either in the entire army), converted with Cadian lasguns and armor, to represent non-Cadians being folded into the regiment as well. Probably won't use Valhallans, mordians, tallarn, or vostroyans, since the look clash too much with the more "modern army" look of the Cadians. 

 

Any thoughts on how non-Cadians troops would act (or be treated) when folded out of neccessity into a Cadian regiment? (i.e., what are Catachan-Cadian attitudes, and what are Elysian-Cadian attitudes, and even how do Catachan-Elysian treat each other?)

 

To keep this a bit on topic, how might Catachans and Elysian treat abhumans? I know Nord Dedog was originally attached to the Catachans, so seems evidence points to more respect for Ogryns from the Catachans)?

 

Thank you for the information, all. I will hopefully have some pictures up soon!

[WarriorFish]

For the most part I think it's safe to say a regiment has no problems with abhumans unless explicitly stated. Catachans can be a troublesome lot, distrustful and disdainful of outsiders but if you prove you're tough as nails and loyal they will accept you - so long as you're not bossing them around as to them command is earned in blood and respect. So they get along well with Ogryns but I'm not sure about Ratlings. They'd probably find them weedy and cowardly but respect their accuracy (and cooking skills), as the Catachans have famously good snipers so it might be a case of them tolerating Ratlings at best?

I'm afraid someone else will have to fill you in on the Elysians as I don't know much about them. I'm not sure if their combat doctrine allows the use of abhumans, though the idea of para-Ogryns is quite appealing

As for the inter-regimental combinations it depends on the each regiment's attitude mostly. Catachan regiments are bloody minded and somewhat reckless so that might not mesh well with the disciplined Cadians, but they would certainly respect each other's abilities at war. Maybe you could keep their units operating separately as more like allies than a single regiment? There's a lot of scope for an interesting back story with combined regiments, with officers having to juggle maintaining good cohesion and operational effectiveness between very different soldiers.

[-Volsung-]

As for the inter-regimental combinations it depends on the each regiment's attitude mostly. Catachan regiments are bloody minded and somewhat reckless so that might not mesh well with the disciplined Cadians, but they would certainly respect each other's abilities at war. Maybe you could keep their units operating separately as more like allies than a single regiment? There's a lot of scope for an interesting back story with combined regiments, with officers having to juggle maintaining good cohesion and operational effectiveness between very different soldiers.

 

I definitely agree. I think that's exactly what I am trying to go for in terms of the regimental theme. It's definitely in spirit with the Rebel Alliance feel I'm going for (considering a romanticized rag-tag galactic army composed of aliens and humans of different language and physical attributions, all fighting for freedom).

 

Of course, here there are no xenos, but there is still a "freedom fighter" vibe of a loyalist regiment fighting in a sector usurped by the enemy. 

[*Furyou Miko]

Elysian combat doctrine doesn't allow for the use of abhumans, although it's not clear whether thats because of the Elysians, or the abhumans.

 

You'll never convince an Ogryn to get into a Valkyrie. They're scared enough of Chimeras, and Valkyries are smaller. And fly. Ratlings, presumably, won't touch anything as dangerous as jumping out of a perfectly good aeroplane.

 

Elysians are a merchant culture. They value those who show dedication, discipline and ambition. I imagine they would get on well with the Cadians.

[Uprising]

May I suggest three choices: Long term campaign(20+ years in a sector), Traitor(chaos), or renegade(does not follow imperial or Tau buddies).  This way you can have your sense of companionship, because they need each other for survival.  

[Idlem]

There's fluff stating that Elysians and Catachans got along really well when a couple of regiments got folded together. Really, how well a regiment gets along together depends on the Commissars and Colonel. Also most warzones are made up of regiments from all parts of the galaxy, it would not be unusual for the regiments to get all mixed together. Remember your Only War topic? The picture of the three regiments fighting together? Their survivors getting folded together and being shipped off to fight elsewhere is a normal thing in the imperium. A Rebel Alliance band would be ordinary.

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, from the Bellerophon formation in Apoc. No idea if the formation is still valid but the fluff of course is, even if it basically boils down to "Catachans with even more Vietnam" :P

 

Combining armies is something the Guard can do better than anyone else, you could easily have different regiments forming your Platoons in your army. That's how I'd do plastic Tallarn if they came out, though mostly as a desperate way to sate my desire to own a Tallarn army without buying an entire new army. A plan that while good in theory would inevitably fail as I buy "just one more box"... A Guard army is never done as we all well know :lol:

[-Volsung-]

I think I might reconsider and add some Tallarns as well. The desert clothes and kefiyeh seem more adaptable to the "Rebel Alliance" diverse look than the Mordian pristine look or the Valhallan or Vostroyan's winter coats. 

[WarriorFish]

That would work well, and I'm not just saying that because I like the Tallarn :P Give them Sentinels and a temperate camouflage scheme and you're half way to the battle of Endor!

[*Furyou Miko]

Plus, the Tallarns are just plain nice kits. :)

[Beachymike123]

I can add something on the Catachans for you (i used to run Catachans from their own codex back in 3rd ed, and they're still probably my favourite guard people). They are known as mini-Ogryns (though never to their face) due to their physical stature. They get on fantastically well with Ogryns whom they respect for their loyalty and ability to get the job done, as well as sharing personal hygiene traits in most cases. They do, however, shun Commisars most of the time unless they prove themselves in combat. In fact, Commisars who try and lord it over the Catachans often face 'accidents' if they aren't careful (codex:catachan used to have a rule for commisars that you had to roll a d6 before a game. If the result was a 1, they'd suffered an unfortunate accident and couldn't be used that game). On the whole, Catachans are definately worth considering, if for nothing else the embittered veterans feel in an army.