Passeltov Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Moin (Hi) I´m currently working on a List for a Tournament at the End of the month. And after a long thought process I decided to say Screw you to my lame flying Daemon Circus and hello to 30k fun with my Death Guard. Now I’m really troubled to write a working 2000 point list, my first attempt was this list but after a terrible defeat against a Necron army I have my doubts.(I was nearly tabled at the bottom of 3.rd turn) My current list looks like this: Legion Praetor (The Reaping) + Bolt pistol, 1 x Thunder hammer, Digital lasers, boarding shield (I have the limited fw boarding marine and he looks cool and fitting in a Breacher Squad) Master of signal Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought + Two Kheres pattern assault cannon Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought + Two twin-linked lascannon Legion Veteran Squad 10 Veterans, 2 x Missile launcher + Veteran Sergeant, Bolt pistol, Power fist, Bolter, Artificer armour Apothecarion Detachment + Apothecary, Artificer armour (attached to the Legion Tactical Squad) + Apothecary, Artificer armour ( attached to the Legion Breacher Siege Squad) Legion Tactical Squad 15 Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Bolters + Tactical Sergeant, Power fist, Artificer armour Legion Breacher Siege Squad 15 Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, 3 x Graviton gun + Legion Sergeant, Bolter, Power fist, Artificer armour Legion Predator + Predator cannon, Lascannon sponsons Legion Predator + Predator cannon, Lascannon sponsons Legion Heavy Support Squad 5 Space Marines, Auto-cannon + Legion Sergeant, Auto-cannon, Augury scanner Death Guard : 1995points My plan is as followed: The Breacher Squad and Tactical Squad move up to the center of the table, they are flanked by both Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnoughts. The Veterans are outflanking to put a little bit pressure into the enemy deployment zone and the Heavy Support Squad stay behind and give cover fire/are a scoring unit and hold my deployment zone and are flanked by both Predators. As you can clearly see I definitely need help in building a better Death Guard list^^ Sorry for my English, but I haven’t written anything in English for the last 8 years….. hmm I´m getting old^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Hi, welcome to the B&C! No worries about your English, it's perfectly fine. I'm not sure if 30k is where you want to turn if you are looking for competitive tournament play. 30k is pretty balanced with itself and overall, but by that same token it is not out-of-balance/overpowered like the lists that rule the 40k meta (taudar, Jetseer/Deer star, screamerstar, necron air force, etc). It will struggle to produce good results against very competitive 40k lists. The first thing that stands out to me are the Veterans. They are very expensive overall, especially with those heavy weapons in there. As a comparison, you could field a 10 man heavy support squad with missile launchers for 10 points more than what you have spent on that veteran squad. You pay a very hefty fee for their extra attacks in melee and their selection of special rules (things like Fearless are very rare in 30k, and get a price premium attached to them to keep them rare). They are also not any more difficult to kill than tactical marines that cost half as much. And they are less difficult to kill than a squad of 10 terminators which costs 50 points more. Second thing is your HQ. The FW Boarding Marine is pretty cool, but he also makes for a very non-optimal character. Unfortunately, when you enter a competitive environment you may have to choose between models that are good and models that you like. You obviously need a Praetor if you're going to keep your RoW, but I think yours would be much better served with a Paragon Blade, Iron Halo, Rad Grenades, and maybe a few points for another toy or two. Keep in mind that he has no transport and you cannot make run moves using this RoW. Getting into melee will only happen if your opponent lets it happen, he will -always- have the maneuver advantage just because he can run. Don't spend too much on this guy because he may not actually ever see melee. A second note is the Master of Signal. I like him, he's cheaper, he brings pie plates, he buffs squads. But don't get too attached to him. 30k squads are big and they are expensive. There is not always a lot of room for secondary HQs, even at 2k points. I'm not saying you should cut him, cause I don't have a recommendation right now for what you should cut him for, but you should be open to the idea of reducing your HQ to just your Praetor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hi, welcome - ooh another Death Guard list :D Well, in 8 years you haven't lost your touch, you have nothing to fear with your English so clear. I see you have apothecaries, have you considered giving them Augury Scanners if you are facing 40k lists ? You talked of moving your Breacher Siege squad up the battlefield with your attached praetor. The Graviton weapons are Heavy 1 and will not give you any chances to shoot whilst getting into position, have you considered the Meltagun or Volkite Charger? The Ltd boarding marine is definitely a cool model and ripe for an HQ (or serg), but looks very out of place as your HQ. Kit's covered it above, but as an addition, you can always add him as another marine in your breacher squad (especially if you magnetised his hammer hand). Finally, it might be worth considering listing the brief key points with your battle against the Necrons - what list were they using, where did it go wrong, what happened to your units, what did you lack etc etc. Just a little insight might help people suggest subtle changes that will assist in weak areas against your possible competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passeltov Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 Ok, first thanks to the quick and really helpful advices. I really appreciate the recommendations given by you two. The praetor sadly has to change and I had afew different ideas how to rewrite the list.But now a short recap of my game against the NecronHis force (forgeworld necron army)Special FW lord (didn´t bothered to bear in mind his abilities, he sat in a 15 Warrior unit the whole game and had a small talk with his guys)2 annihilator barges2 necron transport barges with 10 warriors insideOne necron sentry pylon with a gun (can´t remember which one)15 warriors5 heavy warriors in a night scythe10 sniper necrons with a cryptek in a night scytheProbably I forgot something but that was vaguely his list.Mission was each player placed two markers into his deployment zone(pitched battle). After deployment these scatter an additionally 2d6 inches into a random direction. Also one marker was placed into the center. The own markers gave 3 points as well as the marker in the center. The enemy markers are only two points worth.Secondary objective was slay the warlord, first blood and move into the enemy deployment zone Long story My deployment was centered to the middle of the board and my plan was to move fast up (as fast as a death guard may walk) and shoot the necron back into stasis.First turn(my opponent won the roll off) he shot at my Heavy Support Squad resulting in two losses and a failed moral test (and even more shockingly a 12 for my fleeing movement, who promptly gave away first blood to my opponent). Next he destroyed a Predator with an annihilator barge and the other predator was stunned and immobilized.In my turn I move my infantry slowly forward and move my kheres contemptor right behind my infantry and shot at a transport barge but only removed two hit points . My other contemptor stood still and awaited the incoming flyers. The Master of Signal shot his artillery strike right into the 15 warriors with attached lord, killing 8 and they failed shockingly their pinning test.In the second turn both night scythes appear. The one with the snipers appeared right in front of my Breachers and declared them as their primary target. The cryptek had a really strange flamer S8 Ap1 and thanks to the massive fire from both the cryptek and the snipers 11 Breacher and the apothecary died, my Praetor also lost 2 wounds. The lascannon contemptor shot at the night scythe but he evaded and lost only one hull point. My kheres contemptor was shot at by an uncountable amount of gauss fire by both transports and their passengers and sadly was destroyed.In my second turn I’m down to a handful of Breachers, my lascannon contemptor who can´t fire thanks to interceptor, my Veterans (who won´t appear until my 4th turn) and my yet unharmed Tactical Squad. The second Predator died somehow..As a result of this development I changed my plan from “take the center” to “get the out of sight”. Except for my Breachers which attacked the sniper squad, resulting in another 3 dead just thanks to the flamer cryptek. Funny enough this close combat lasted until the end of my 3th turn afterwards a lone Breacher and my really angry Praetor emerged and consolidated a whole inch right in front the enemy army. Justimagine the end of Leonidas in the movie 300 then you have a really clear image what happened at the end. Short story: He (my overly clever opponent) just picked of all my AT-weapons right at the beginning and holds medown with his longer range/mobility and indestructible AV 13. My next idea was this list Legion Praetor Bolt pistol, 1 x Paragon blade, Digital lasers, Iron halo, rad grenadesApothecarion Detachment + Chainsword, Augury scanner, Artificer armourContemptor-Mortis Dreadnought + Two Kheres pattern assault cannon Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought + Two twin-linked lascannonLegion Tactical Squad20 Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, BoltersLegion Breacher Siege Squad10 Space Marines, 2 x Graviton gun+ Legion Sergeant, Bolter + Land Raider Phobos Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter 4 Kraken penetrator heavy missiles ground tracking auguries Legion Heavy Support Squad6 Space Marines, Chem-Munitions, Heavy flamer+ Legion Sergeant, Heavy flamer, Chem-MunitionsLegion Land Raider Battle Squadron + Land Raider Phobos, Armoured ceramite Or should i stay loyal to the teachings of Mortarion and get rid of all vehicles? So many decision^^ And a quick rule question, the effect implacable oh the RoW grants every unit move through cover, so by my understanding all vehicles also have this rule or am I wrong? EDIT: Edited for attempting to avoid the swear word filter. In the future if you feel the need to use unacceptable words, please substitute for "Censored" smilie. Honda Bolter and Chainsword Moderation team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Mortarion had everything at his disposal - it's a legion list, you have the option to field everything that a generic legion had when they were first created and what was developed over time up until the heresy etc. In fact, read up, they employed some of the heaviest concentration of armour during the Isstvan battles, Fellblades, Spartans, etc. He likes Infantry fighting, but he had everything at hand and used whatever he needed when appropriate. That said and done - I like your little spoilers, short story proves that you need more Anti Tank stuff, and Heresy lists have it in the bucket loads if you run them that way. I know nothing of the flyer, since I hate flyers, so can't comment on its viability. I know that there is a post out there detailing the options and viability. As for the Land Raider Phobos units, interesting idea, try them out and see how you get on. Personally I would run a Spartan as it's that bit tougher, but not everyone can afford one. Your heavy flamer squad is less ranged anti armour than the original auto cannons, but thematic if nothing else. I would personally opt to fill out the breacher squad to 20x man, and reduce something else, again, I'm dubious on the gravitons in that unit too, but your mileage may vary :) Best thing to do - have another battle and update the thread with the results ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passeltov Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 Yeah, my second post on this forum and I was already warned by the mods. Way to go me.... And many thanks for the advices. So, Tournament is over, sadly I had to play a different list than posted above. Somehow I forgot where I put my 2 Land Raider Phobos. Legion Praetor ---> Rite of War : The Reaping Bolt pistol, 1 x Paragon blade, Digital lasers, Iron halo, rad grenades, Cataphractii Armour 3 Deathshroud + Land Raider Phobos, Armoured ceramiteApothecarion Detachment + Chainsword, Augury scanner, Artificer armourContemptor-Mortis Dreadnought + Two Kheres pattern assault cannon Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought + Two twin-linked lascannonLegion Tactical Squad17 Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, power fistLegion Breacher Siege Squad15 Space Marines, Legion Sergeant, power axe Legion Heavy Support Squad7 Space Marines, Autocannons+ Legion Sergeant, Augury scanner Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter 4 Kraken penetrator heavy missiles ground tracking auguries Faired quite well, I placed 5th for gaming points, but after the paint score and list building score(bonus points for not doubling units/not using allies/not using forgeworld*boo) I got down to 12th place. 1st game was against a Tau/Eldar list containing 3 Riptides, 2 Wave Serpents, 3 missile broadsides with way too many missile drones an attached commander and an attached farseer, to name just the highlights. Oh and as a special rule nightfight was applied the whole game. Somehow I managed to kill all riptides and both serpents but still got a minor defeat (We both held two markers but he slew my warlord) 2nd game was against Dark Angels/Tau. 3 Tacticals in Rhinos, 3 devastor units, another riptide some outflanking kroots and a big kroot unit with sniper rifles in his center. At the end I nearly tabled him, he had about 4 Marines left who cowered in a ruin. My personal highlight was my Breacher squad who defeated the riptide in close combat in just 2 turns. My 3rd game was against a Grey Knights/Space Wolves army. The objective was to get into the enemy deployment zone but was the short table edge deployment. I totally forgot his list but he had a stormraven, a redeemer, a whirlwind, an annoying lone wolf and Space Marine infantry. In this game the Lightning was his his weight worth in gold, killing the redeemer in the second turn(which stood right in front of my tactical squad), killed a rhino and even shot the enemy warlord. So after the tournament I decided to score way better on my painting score. To help me achieve this wonder I started a wip- Thread http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/289256-passeltov%C2%B4s-pre-heresy-death-guard/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted April 8, 2014 Share Posted April 8, 2014 Points for not using FW in a legion list? lol... not a lot you can do there I'm afraid! Your Legion Praetor. Check the entry, page 188, his wargear when in "Terminator" armour has a different entry. He comes as standard with a combi-bolter, no bolt pistol is present. Sounds like you did great against the Taudar list - I would really enjoy reading about that battle if you ever get the chance to recap each turn! In terms of your army list (to get back on topic), what did you learn, what worked and didn't work for you, and what changes do you think would help you further following the games you ? Now I'm off to check your other thread, great update btw :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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