Power Armoured =I= Acolytes Using Adepta Sororitas Rules?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Not sure whether this thread is more properly here in the Sisters of Battle forum or over in the Imperial Guard forum -- so mods feel free to move it if you deem appropriate.

 

Anyway, in the Astra Militarum Future thread (now closed), I made mention of my plans to use the new Scion miniatures to represent an elite power armoured Inquisitorial bodyguard for the Lord Inquisitor who is central to my Imperial Guard army's storyline. Furyou Miko wrote in response:

 

 

Good luck finding heads to make them Sisters. Then again, the only reason to use counts-as Sisters in an Inquisition detachment is to use Sisters models, since the rules aren't even a little bit representative.

 

So I should be more clear.

 

The situation is this: I play DKoK Assault Brigade. Their army list, in Imperial Armour 12 states that the DKoK have their own allies matrix that has as "Battle Brothers" Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle and all loyalist space marines except Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Grey Knights who are "Allies of Convenience".  It then states "The Death Korps treat other forces as 'Come the Apocalypse'..."

 

When Codex Inquisition came out I foolishly asked Forgeworld if it was "Allies of Convenience" as GK are. Nope, says FW, they are 'Come the Apocalypse' since they are an "other force" (I say I asked foolishly because before I recieved that response the local tournament organizer was prepared to allow me to take Codex: Inquisition units as Allies of Convenience).

 

Therefore, to be tournament legal, I have taken to bringing a Canoness to represent my Lord Inquisitor and then the minimum Battle Sister tax to be able to field him. I like the Scion models so much that I had the idea of using those new models as some sort of elite bodyguard in power armour armed with bolters.

 

So now I'm trying to figure out how to convert the Scion models to make them look like they're wearing power armour. They are not Sisters of Battle. I'm trying to figure out what, fluff-wise, they could be ... some sort of even more elite Inquisitorial Storm Trooper? Your thoughts in this regard would be helpful as well.

 

In my army's fluff, Lord Inquisitor Soulis is also known as "the Saviour of Sorgrece", Sorgrece V being the planet my troops are from. He played a major role in liberating the planet from World Eaters Space Marines and Blood Pact, then incurred the wrath of some fellow inquisitors and the Grey Knights by preventing Exterminatus of the planet and opposing even to the point of open battle the GK plants to wipe out the inhabitants of the planet "just in case". He's a very powerful Inquisitor, kind of like a Coteaz insofar as he operates openly and rules the region directly. So it seemed fitting to me that he might have some sort of power armoured warrior acolytes as his bodyguard. They could be Sisters of Battle I suppose, since the Adepta Sororitas also figure heavily into the backstory (originally Order of Our Martyred Lady but I'm considering retconning that because I now prefer the colour scheme of the Order of the Sacred Rose because I like thier scheme better) but I just love these Scion models and want to use them.

 

All of which is a very long way of asking:

 

1) How should I modify the new Scion models to make them WYSIWYG compliant as "Battle Sisters" (rules-wise, not fluff-wise)

2) What would be a fluffy backstory to a large-ish force of power-armoured men (not space marines) who work for a powerful Lord Inquisitor?

 

By the way, for reference, here are the models I'm talking about:

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HJ3w_Uu9qNg/UzDKs_kv_DI/AAAAAAAAAck/zJqyD83UETI/s1600/Zlv314o.jpg

[march10k]

Well, I,  for one, don't see any special reason why the ecclesiarchy (edict passive?  What?) should not have armed retainers of the male persuasion (I mean besides the gimps in a priestly retinue).  Worst case, they could be the PDF of a shrine world whose wargear and training are financially supported by the Church, explaining why they're so 1337 compared to regular guardsmen...I'm anticipating possibly using stormtrooper allies for my sisters, exchanging a pip of armor and the special rules for AP3 guns and...alternate special rules (deepstrike?), for not too many more points (fewer, since they won't need transports if they have deepstrike).

[Fibonacci]

I think you are pushing the "counts as" envelope just the get around a rule you don't like.

 

How to make scions look like women in power armor in 2 easy steps:

1. Throw away the scions

2. Buy Sisters of Battle

 

I know, I know, I know ... you are not trying to make scions into female models; you just need the codex rules to go with your other codex rules. So why use C:AS?  Why us DKoK?  Why not claim you DKoK are Tau and the Scions are Eldar and your Inquisitor is a farseer?

 

C:AS are not marines light.  Scions are not female.  Using male models as "counts as" Sisters makes as much sense as using them as Necrons.  Other than having 2 legs there is nothing in common.

 

I like the concept of your army.  I think it would work, look cool and have a good story.  Wouldn't it be easier to take the TO's support and talk it over with your friends so that DKoK could ally with Inquisition?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Fibonacci, I see where you are coming from, and I am indeed trying to get around Forgeworld's silly ruling. I felt like it would not be received well if I emailed the tournament mailing list asking for a "houserule" for the tournament, but given your reaction I see that trying to push the "counts-as" envelope this far might be more offensive.

 

However, I don't think I'm pushing the envelope so far as to be using the models as Necrons which are alien souls locked into robotic bodies. At least we are talking about human beings here (Str 3, T 3), with better than usual training (BS 4) and some Ecclessiarchy ties. That said, I agree the Acts of Faith don't fit.

 

Why DKoK? Because their rules perfectly fit the fluff of my world/army -- a planet that was largely conquered by World Eaters and Blood Pact, practically annihilated themselves with nuclear weapons to prevent total defeat, then slowly fought their way back with the assistance of Lord Inquisitor Soulis and off-world troops he brought. The people of this world became experts at hand-to-hand combat by fighting against Khorne worshippers (and being very low on ammo whereas bodies and bayonets were much more plentiful) and adopting a "fight fire with fire attitude". The WS 4, the DKoK special orders, the recycling platoons, all just fits that perfectly, plus the ability to take cheap(er) stormtroopers as troops choices and, above all, Death Riders is perfection. The Death Riders especially since I determined when I first started building the army that I had to have Rough Riders and Death Riders are just way better with 2 wounds, 6+ FNP, 1 attacks, and WS4 for only 1.5x the cost of a codex RR (which may not even exist anymore in a few weeks -- we shall see!).

 

I think that Forgeworld's answer to me is silly. It makes no sense, I mean, in the Vraks books Inquisitor Hector Rex commands DKoK and there is an FAQ from Forgeworld saying he can be selected as an HQ choice from Codex: Inquisition!

 

Anyway, thanks for the input. I'll send a message to the email list and see what they say. If they allow it, I could take not only Scions but a priest, some arco-flagellants and some crusaders and be in 7th heaven.

[Heru]

Is the use of Acts of Faith optional in the latest SoB Codex? If they are I don't see a problem with using Count-As as long as you don't use the Acts of Faith.

Honestly it was something I myself was considering doing back during the Witch Hunters Codex, I wanted to represent an elite Power Armoured Human force serving an Inquisitor (not SoB whose service will always first be to the Ecclesiarchy), and fighting alongside his more regular Storm Trooper troops.

I was going to use SM models with alterations that made them less regular SMlike (only got as far as a helmet swap, with one of the Chaos ones):

For turning Scions into Power Armour, you only have a couple of things to really focus on:

1. Adding extra armour to the thighs.

2. Replacing the Hot-shot / equipment backpack with something more power armour.

[Fibonacci]

However, I don't think I'm pushing the envelope so far as to be using the models as Necrons which are alien souls locked into robotic bodies. At least we are talking about human beings here (Str 3, T 3), with better than usual training (BS 4) and some Ecclessiarchy ties. That said, I agree the Acts of Faith don't fit.

 

They may both be humans but with the latest initiative of wysiwyg where a marine that is not painted white can not use the White Scars combat tactics, I think you may find it easier to approval for using C:I as allies.

 

Have you considered using C:GK for their Inquisition?  You can get Inquisitors and power armor troops but they would have marine stats.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I was not aware of this new WYSIWYG initiative that you speak of ... what about DIY successor chapters?

 

That said, it's not the power armour I want. I just want to be able to somehow bring a model that can play the part of Lord Inquisitor Soulis. I have zero interest in Grey Knights.

 

In any event, I'm glad you posted what you did. I contacted the tournament organizers and they said that they don't consider an off-the-cuff unofficial email from some unidentified customer service person at Forgeworld to be determinative of the issue so they are going to review IA12 and Codex: Inquisition and discuss and give me a ruling. So I may well be able to bring Codex: =I= after all, in which case I will just bring Scion models as warrior acolytes in carapace armour (but maybe still give them boltguns since I think they're a better value on acolytes than hotshot lasguns) as well as a priest or two, and some arco-flagellants, and some crusaders. My inquisitor won't kick nearly as much heretical butt as a canoness would, but that's a worthy trade-off to dispense with "envelope pushing" issues and to be able to bring the other goodies I mentioned.

[thade]

They may both be humans but with the latest initiative of wysiwyg where a marine that is not painted white can not use the White Scars combat tactics, I think you may find it easier to approval for using C:I as allies.

Even if this is a GW initiative (which I don't believe) I still flatly reject it. <3 Two reasons. The Golden Rule (if you don't like it, change it) and the Just Play to Have Fun Rule (which Awfulawful once told me is "Thade's Law"). WYSIWYG is a staple in 40k. As long as it's clear what a model is and it can't be mistaken for anything else, it is what you say it is; it is what it appears to be.

[Fibonacci]

To be fair, Codex: Inquisition is just a subset of units from Codex: Grey Knights.  Come to think of it, you could put that to the TO and claim C:I should be allies of convience at the very least.

 

 

I contacted the tournament organizers and they said that they don't consider an off-the-cuff unofficial email from some unidentified customer service person at Forgeworld to be determinative of the issue so they are going to review IA12 and Codex: Inquisition and discuss and give me a ruling.

 

I think it is better like this; just fix the obvious RAI over sight and you wont have to change the look of the new models.

 

[edit]

I hate to sound like I'm trying to talk you out of starting a Sisters of Battle army especially considereing how well they go with IG (and DKoK)  in function and fluff, but I honsetly don't think it is the best use of the scion models.

[*Furyou Miko]

Hm.

 

I did misunderstand your post over in the Artra Milly thread. It may appear a little hypocritical in this context, but actually I wouldn't have a problem with you using Sisters rules for an Inquisitorial kill squad.

 

The reason I posted what I originally did is because people using the Henchman rules to represent Sisters makes the Sisters look... well, bad. It makes people think that Sisters are BS3/Ld7 mooks with too-nice gear.

 

Going the other way, I could easily see them as a unit of Stormtroopers (same stat line, after all) who have been personally outfitted with power armour by the Inquisitor who has requisitioned them. Acts and Shield of Faith are easily handwaved under their current incarnation - just model one member of each squad as an Interrogator and fluff them as minor Divination or Biomancy talents. The Priests and Battle conclaves can also be lesser Inquisitors and their retinues, and the Sororitas Command Squad is certainly customisable enough to build any warband you might desire.

 

In that sense, the new Scion armour is bulky enough, in my opinion, that the only modifications that really need doing are to swap their hotshots for bolters and the addition of a backpack power supply. It looks like a standard Astartes backpack would fit the bill with a little light knife-work to make the parts fit together. Ultimately, it's not that different from GC08 using Sisters rules for his Scout army.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Thanks for all the perspectives. I am on the fence but I think that if the tournament organizers allow it, I will go with the Inquisition option. If they don't, then I will stick with my original Sisters idea (with apologies to Fibonacci -- it seems that most will not be offended by such an approach).

 

In the mean time, I wonder if you folks have any thoughts on the Inquisitor & warband I'm planning. I think experience with Battle Conclaves should give you the experience needed. The people in the Grey Knight forum are just ignoring my post (I guess most of them play GK not inquisition) so figured I would post here too. Here's what I had in mind:

 

Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor

Power Armour
Inferno Pistol

Null Rod
Servo Skulls x3

[77]
 

 

Crusader x2

Arco Flagellant x2
Priest w/ meltabombs

Acolytes w/ carapace + meltagun x3
Acolytes w/ carapace x2

[160]
 

 

My thoughts:  I thought the meltaguns would synergise well with inferno pistol and I want assault weapons (flamers are a rip off at 10 pts IMO). I could be convinced to drop the two just with carapace but I thought some ablative wounds would be good. Or I could have 1 death cult assassin/crusader/arco instead of those two. Lower body count but much better attacks.

 

For the inquisitor, is the null rod worth it? I haven't played any 6th edition yet so I am wondering how common psychic attacks are nowadays and if it's worth the points to make the unit immune. Or should I stick with a power sword and use the 15 extra points for an additional DCA/Crusader/Flagellant. Maybe a power fist (I4 isn't horrible but extra hitting power may be nice)?

[Fibonacci]

Hmm, where to start ....

 

OK, the Arcos.  They no longer count as power weapons and are just S5 AP nothing.  If you have any DCA models, those are a much better option for the same points.  With the Inquisition version of the DCA you can take different power weapons and not just swords. Either axe and sword or maul and sword are the typical options since the axe or mace can give you a little extra strength when you need it.  Arco can swing a lot, but DCA can swing a fair bit at higher Init, choice of Strength and AP with a possible Concussive as well. They are leaps and bounds better than Arcos.

 

Psychic powers:

With everyone getting deny the witch now, it is possible for just about anything to be resisted.  Blessings, on the other hand, can not be denied so are more likely to be useful.  You still have to pass a psychic test but at least your opponent can't cancel out the effect.  There are still some malidictions and witchfire powers that will be used against you but for the most part, those are the random powers rolled while they were trying for the good powers.

 

So I said that for 2 reasons.  First is to say you wont have to counter all that many psychic attacks.  Even if you take the rod you can still be hit by novas and well placed beams, you just can not be targeted.  Which brings up the second point,  the Inquisitor can't target themself or their unit with those blessings that are so useful in 6th.

 

Which then leads me to the unasked question of which psychic powers to take.  The answer is always: Divination. There is not a bad power at all in the list and they last for a full game turn.  In all honesty, the reason people use C:I is for Divination.

 

Hope that helps.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Unfortunately the most recent update to Codex: Inquisition makes DCA two power swords just like Codex: Adepta Sororitas. Yeah, I guess DCA are a lot better than Arcos especially since Inquisition Arcos cost 15 points for only +1 attack over the Battle Conclave version (no idea why the discrepancy -- maybe a typo -- I will ask Digital Editions). If they were Battle Conclave price having three of them vs. two DCA might be worth it.

 

I just think Arcos are cool and I have a converted one from Codex: Witchhunters days that I wanted to revive. But, yeah, DCA are probably better. I don't like the whole spandex BDSM look to the models though. I'm game to convert my own thing. I guess Death Cult Assassins could look like almost anything. There are probably all kinds of unique and weird Imperial cults scattered throughout the galaxy.

 

Assuming 2 Crusaders, 2 DCA, priest, 3 Acolytes w/ carapace and melta, and 2 acolytes with CCW/laspistol, does this seem like a good mix, though?

[Fibonacci]

When I take a Battle Conclave now (not often any more :( ) I go with 3 Crusaders, 2 Arcos and 4 DCA.  This more for cool factor than tactics, though.

 

Some popular conversions for DCA are done with Dark Eldar Wytches.  There are 6 female torsos in the box.  You just need to clip and file away most of the pointy bits and swap the weapons for something more Imperial looking.

 

Another popular choice is to use Daughters of the Flame from Privaeer Press.  I like the look of them but they are a on the tall side

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Do DCA need to be female?

[*Furyou Miko]

No, DCA don't need to be female, but traditionally are because most people don't like the idea of painting men in skintight leather outfits.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Yes, well, I don't want to do men or women in skin-tight BDSM-looking outfits. I was thinking of creating some different obscure death cult with a different look altogether.

[*Furyou Miko]

Go for it. :)

[Inquisitor Fox]

You're not being ignored, I just didn't log on yet ;)

 

As I said here :

 

 

Hey now, how convenient I just was working on my Codex: =][= list and have used a close combat Hereticus model since well, forever :D

 

My unit (which does assault out of a Land Raider) is a bit simpler:

 

(78) Inquisitor Nicole Pyykkönen (OH): Condemnor boltgun, power armor, psyker, force sword

 

(175) Inquisitorial Henchmen Warband: Ministorum Priest with eviscerator, 6 Death Cult Assassins, 2 Crusaders

 

253 points total, so technically a little over your limit.

 

The psyker takes Hammerhand (bringing the Priest to s8 with Eviscerator and all the DCA's to s5 ap3) and the priest gives juicy juicy war hymns as well as walker protection via the Eviscerator.  Crusaders have power weapons and storm shields so that's kind of a given.  I've found that in general putting shooting weapons in a close combat unit is kind of a waste.  The Inquisitor has a condemnor boltgun because she's always had one and it's the reason I picked the model.  Effectiveness-wise she'd be better off with the default bolt pistol (and cheaper pointswise) ;)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

As much as I prefer Arco Flagellants modelling-wise, Death Cult Assassins are just too good for me to ignore I think. So if you ladies and gentlemen don't mind, let me bounce a few modelling/fluff ideas off you for death cult assassins. As mentioned above in my exchange with Miko, I want to go a whole different direction from the BDSM GW models. Here are my ideas:

 

1) Since my main army is Death Korps of Krieg Assault Brigade, one DCA could be a special sort of Death Commando. I'd probably base the model off an engineer since they're the only DKoK models without greatcoats and that wouldn't be too conducive to the martial acrobatics DCA do. It seems plausible to me considering that DKoK regular troops have WS4 and their company commanders have WS5. So some sort of death cult within the military itself I like. The 4++ is the difficult thing to explain, but maybe a rosarius since the planet my troops are from is a Cardinal world with lots of Ecclesiarchy stuff?

 

2) A Conan-type barbarian warrior from a planet with extremely high gravity, such that he's got John Carter of Mars-like superhuman reflexes, agility, and strength when in normal G environments. I'd base this model off a fantasy Dragon Slayer, swapping the axes out for swords (alas).

 

3) I thought the Redemptionist DCA in the Ravenor stories was an interesting idea, but for a group that's so puritanical they don't even want/allow others to see their faces, the whole skin-tight suit seemed wrong to me. I'd take the aesthetic in more of a Necromunda Redemptionist cultist direction. Could be a male or a female. For a female I think maybe High Elf Alarielle the Radiant as a base might work although she's got a bit too much jewellery and such. Chopping of her hair and GSing her helmet to be more of a mask is doable as well as giving her two power swords. Or the model could be some sort of living saint warrior woman what with the roses on the base. I do kind of like the model for a graceful but deadly assassin woman.

 

4) Seems to me that one or two of the Nazgûl from the Lord of the Rings line would make a rather nifty DCA. Very mysterious, wrapped in robes. I guess if I painted the robes red with flames at the bottom this could even do for the Redemptionist idea, although I think black would look better.

 

5) What do you think of using a Sister of Avelorn to represent some sort of Feudal world warrior-woman like Red Sonja sort of thing? Again maybe need a rosarius of some sort to explain the invulnerable save. I don't really want to do the high-gravity homeworld thing twice.

[*Furyou Miko]

The DCA only have a 5++ invulnerable save, and it's stated to be a dodge save - Inhuman Reflexes, or something like that, is the name of the rule that grants it to them.

 

I like the Death Commando idea, but I also like the idea of using Nazghul, probably a little better. Rather than Sisters of Avelorn, I'd suggest looking at the Wood Elf range. They have a lot of cloaked and masked models that could make for good mysterious cult killers.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Well, the DCA don't all have to be the same -- Inquisitors are known for the ecclectic bands of followers they have. So I will probably go with a few of these or maybe even all five. Didn't see anything in the Wood Elf range that was cloaked and masked ... did you have a specific model in mind?

[*Furyou Miko]

Glade Guard were what came to mind, actually. They look a lot less... leafy than the Waywatchers (the old waywatcher sculpts were so much better ><), and come with a variety of heads, mixed gender, hooded and bare-headed, masked and unmasked (at least two different kinds of mask). The arms are pretty easy to convert with hand weapons (or power swords for that matter), and putting them on round bases helps mitigate the main problem with the models (making them rank up neatly).

[Naminé]

Glade Guard were what came to mind, actually. They look a lot less... leafy than the Waywatchers (the old waywatcher sculpts were so much better ><), and come with a variety of heads, mixed gender, hooded and bare-headed, masked and unmasked (at least two different kinds of mask). The arms are pretty easy to convert with hand weapons (or power swords for that matter), and putting them on round bases helps mitigate the main problem with the models (making them rank up neatly).

 

It's what I use for mine.

[Knight of the Raven]

The death cult assassins are inspired by Inquisitor's Severina and Sevore Devout, twin sisters serving the venerated assassin Order of Ohmygodmyeyes Wearrealclothesplease.

You could use witch elves... they're not bdsm, they're just naked.

(Their blade-wielding arms may be useful, if these fit glade guards or sisters of let'shavesex24/7land Avelorn.)