Kinbirgof Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Hello to everyone!) I want to collect a death guard army, and as i don't have a lot money, I need to choose really wisely, what I need in it. Please help me,) Here it comes: Hq: Typhos 200 5 deathshroud terminators 210 Troops 2*10 tactical squads 300 2*9 tactical support squads (8 plasma guns) 560 2 rhinos 70 Elites: 3 Apothekarions 135 Contemptor mortiris dreadnought with kheres pattern cannons 180 Heavy support: Spartan heavy tank - armoured ceramite, shields 340 Total: 1995 Well, I needed a transport for Command squad (HQ), so I took sparten and made him fully protected (and he is my anti-armour). With them goes one of apothekarions. I took two plasma squads, because i think that they will wipe everything. Other two apothekarions go here. Tactical troops is just to fill the slots and give some shooting and capturing. Dreadhought is here, cause i had some points, and was not sure what to take. In some thoughts I had an idea of taking warden termies in number of 10, instead of deathshroud and dreadnought. What have I missed. I think, that I am few in numbers here. What should i change? Please help. PS: My english is not the best, so sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 You English is great, don't worry. I think you should attach an Apothecary to each Support squad, as you suggested. However, I would put together the tactical squad into a 20 man, and attach an Apothecary. With the 50 point saved maybe add an extra Deathshroud and 2 melts bombs to the Deathshroud for some anti tank. However, wait for Kitwulfen- he is the Gulliman of HH lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinbirgof Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 You English is great, don't worry. I think you should attach an Apothecary to each Support squad, as you suggested. However, I would put together the tactical squad into a 20 man, and attach an Apothecary. With the 50 point saved maybe add an extra Deathshroud and 2 melts bombs to the Deathshroud for some anti tank. However, wait for Kitwulfen- he is the Gulliman of HH lists. Got the point on everything. Maube it is really better to put two tactical together in one, but don't you think, that they will become more slow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Welcome to the B&C! I'm hardly the Guilliman of anything. Just a guy with opinions, and a belief that everyone deserves at least some kind of feedback for their army lists. First thing that jumps out at me is a lack of anti-tank. You're really relying on that Spartan and Kheres to do all the work here, and it just might not be enough. Second thing is those Plasma Support squads. I imagine that they'll get one turn of shooting and then die really, really horribly. Worst case scenario, their transports get popped in your deployment zone, they get one round of shooting at 24 inches, and then they die horribly. They're expensive and not any tougher than tactical marines. It's also worth noting that the current rumormill says that the Sergeants in Support Squads will now have a special weapon in an updated list/errata that is coming out. Third thing is, as mentioned, the tactical squads. There are only two reasons to field 10 man tactical squads, as I see it. One is it's a super low points game and you're trying to meet minimum troops requirements. The second is that you want to put them in Rhinos. Since I think the Rhinos you do have are for your support squads and you're playing at 2k points, I think you ought to be bringing bigger squads. The bigger the squad, the fewer points you are paying per marine and the bigger benefit you're getting from any attached apothecaries. I think your tactical squads could also do with some upgrades here and there. Legion Vexillas are kind of important when your squads don't have ATSKNF. Meltabombs on the sergeants can shore up your anti-tank a little. Fourth is, if you've only got one Contemptor-Mortis for Anti-Air, I prefer the variant with Lascannons. The Kheres are too short ranged for my tastes, but they work well enough and are a little more multi-purpose. I just like to have the range and punch to hurt any aircraft coming on the table. So, all that aside, it looks like you want some kind of hammer list with Typhon and some Deathshroud as the main punch of the army. That's going to be a big and expensive unit, and currently you're spending over 750 of your points on just 7 models. That kind of commitment is always a gamble, and you need to make sure the rest of your army is set up to support that. If your Spartan and big melee unit don't carry their weight and deliver a real crushing blow, then everything will probably fall apart. Calas Typhon 200 Deathshroud Bodyguard -4 Members, Meltabombs 190 Contemptor-Mortis -Twin TLLC 185 Apothecarion -3 Apothecaries 135 Tactical Squad -19 Members, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb, Power Scythe 280 Tactical Squad -19 Members, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb, Power Scythe 280 Tactical Support Squad -5 Members, 5 Plasmaguns, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Rhino 220 Heavy Support Squad -5 Members, 5 Missile Launchers, Sergeant with Artificer Armor Spartan -Armored Ceramite, Flare Shield 340 2000 total Stick the Apothecaries with the tactical squads and the heavy support squad, since they are the ones who will be standing in the open to be shot at. This list gives you six lascannon shots and 5 missile launcher shots to try to deal with enemy armor, along with a half dozen meltabombs in case you need them - which you might, in case you see a superheavy or a knight titan across the field. Hide the rhino full of plasma guys behind the spartan as you move up the field, use the Spartan's size to prevent shots (or at least provide a cover save) to the weaker transport. Your other three squads are the slower anvil for the hammer of your Deathshroud/Typhon/Plasmagunner squads. Use the artificer armored sergeants in your Heavy Support and Tactical Support squads to shrug off bolter fire, use Look Out, Sir to soak up the odd lascannon or plasma hit onto one of the other guys. Conversely, use the tactical marines to keep the sergeants in those squads safe, so that the sergeants can protect the squad in a melee against a dreadnought or other nasties. You could go back to the twin-Kheres loadout on the Contemptor-Mortis if you prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 That... exactly what kitwulfen said, including the bit about the future errata for the Tactical Support Squad sergeant. In addition - read the Apothecary rules, he cannot be attached to your Deathshroud and HQ. The only way you could attach an apothecary to your Deathshroud would probably be to use an HQ Centurion Consul Primus Medicae with Terminator armour. This would change your list due to his points cost and viability. Don't forget that Typhon does have Master of the Legion if you wanted to give your list the RoW Reaping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Let me offer an alternate to Kitwulfen's suggestion. Utilizes a couple more DG special rules, but it may be a little weaker against 30k armies. I don't know if you're playing 30k only, or what your local meta's like. I think it's stronger if you're not fighting marines all the time. Or if you've got a tank-light meta. I like it a little better against flyers, but that's pretty debatable. Either list will have trouble against large numbers of flyers, in my opinion. Calas Typhon -Rite of War: The Reaping 200 Deathshroud Bodyguard -4 Members, Meltabombs 190 Contemptor-Mortis -Twin TLLC 185 Apothecarion -3 Apothecaries, 1 Augury Scanner 140 Tactical Squad -19 Members, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb, Power Scythe 280 Tactical Squad -19 Members, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant with Artificer Armor, Meltabomb, Power Scythe 280 Tactical Support Squad -8 Members, 8 Flamers with Chem Munitions, Sergeant with Artificer Armor and Rad Grenades, Rhino with Heavy Flamer with Chem Munitions 215 Heavy Support Squad -5 Members, 5 Autocannons, Sergeant with Artificer Armor 170 Spartan -Armored Ceramite, Flare Shield 340 Assuming the Flamers can hit 3 guys each, they'll actually beat Rapid Fire Plasmaguns against 3+, and destroy it when firing at a 5+. They'll do better against marines when being charged, too. The apothecary with Augury Scanner goes with the Heavy Support Squad to give them interceptor. You could ditch 3 guys with flamers to get an extra apothecary for that squad (you'd have to have 2 apothecary detachments of 2 each), but I don't think it's worth it. Even if you don't swap the plasmas and missile launchers for flamers, heavy flamer, and autocannons I think you should take The Reaping rite of war. You lose that flat out move with the transports, but get Move Through Cover and an extra scoring squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonstalker Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I think you should take The Reaping rite of war. You lose that flat out move with the transports, but get Move Through Cover and an extra scoring squad. You also lose the ability to run. Considering you've got 40 marines moving on foot, that might be important. Probably more important than just having an extra scoring unit when you already have 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erren Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 I guess I tend to play with a ton of terrain, especially difficult terrain. Getting Move Through Cover on my transports is a big deal. I know lots of people play low terrain though, that may not be a common issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinbirgof Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Got the poinys from everyone. And I got some ideas. About my "hammer": I want to take typhos and deathshroud, but they definetly need a protection. And with my lack of anti armour I took spartan. If it is better to change him, than for what? Maybe I should take two hevy support instead of one and tactical support squad. Or make that unit in kitwulfen list bigger? Here some thoughts: HQ: Typhos 200 4 deathshroud with meltabombs 190 Elites: Contemptor dreadnought with TLLC 185 3 apothekaries, one with augury scanner 135 1 apothekary 45 Troops: 19 tactical squad men, legion vexilla, melta bomb, artificer armour to sergeant 280 19 tactical squad men, legion vexilla, melta bomb, artificer armour to sergeant 280 Heavy support: 10 heavy support men with launchers, artificer armour 290 Spartan tank Armored ceramite, shield 340 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinbirgof Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 In addition - read the Apothecary rules, he cannot be attached to your Deathshroud and HQ. The only way you could attach an apothecary to your Deathshroud would probably be to use an HQ Centurion Consul Primus Medicae with Terminator armour. This would change your list due to his points cost and viability. Well... Isn't deathshroud squad a command squad? I thought so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Not quite sure how your words are supposed to come across to my comment ... But no, not really, they are 'Deathshroud Terminator Squad". It 'may be chosen instead of Command squad'. To add, having e-mailed Forge World previously on matters of a similar nature - Deathshroud are "Deathshroud Terminator Squad', and Legion Command Squads are "Legion Command Squad". They are NOT the same. If a rule says your 'Legion Terminator Squad' get this or that, this does not infer the rules to your Deathshroud or Grave Warden terminators. A similar way this works is for the Pride of the Legion list. Simply read the Forge World FAQ for Heresy Betrayal on their website under downloads. Just because your Deathshroud are placed in the FOC as a Command Squad/Bodyguard, it does not entitle them to have all the same rules as the specific entry for "Legion Command Squad". However... There was a small rumour I read where the Apothecaries might be errata'd to be able to join specific legion listed entries like the Terror Squad etc. As Deathshroud are Terminators, and no term units were listed, I will assume for now that the chances of the apothecaries list of units include Deathshroud is limited to zero. If you do find a ruling, or e-mail Forge World and get a different answer, please do let us all know as I for one would of course be humbled and very interested! :) My apologies for cluttering up your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinbirgof Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 Thanks Infyrana, I will email to forge and will read the faq). And you haven't cluttred the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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