Cor3y Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Hi guys... First topic for me! Just discovered the forum and already love the content!!! I stopped playing after 3th Edition, and started again a few months ago by deciding to sign up in a local tournament at 1750p. Here my list: Reclusiarc 7 DC, 2PW and 1 Infernus Pistol 6 Assault Marines, 1 Melta in a Razorback with TL-Flamers and Dozer Blades 2 Squads of Tactical, each with Melta and Missile Launcher. on deploy, I split each in 2 squads, and the Melta goes in a Razorback with TL-Flamers and Dozer Blades (2 total) DC dreadnought with no upgrades Stormaven with TL-LC and TL-MC (DC dreadnought and DC with Reclusiarc go here) Predator Baal (Dozer Blade, TL-AC and HB) Predator LC-LC Vindicator After 4 games, I feel that my list was a little bit badly structured, by having soo many points in the Raven and by having the DC with the wrong numbers... Had to keep them to 5, so that eventually I could put them in a razorback if needed). I realized soon enought that I had to get a librarian instead of the Reclusiarc, but I'm bound to this list for now... I would need some help and tactical advice of how to handle a GK list that I will play against on Saturday, with 6 Razorbacks with S6 Bolters, Koteaz and 5 paladins and some other guys (Astropath I think), 3 servo skulls, 3 DK, 1 10 squad of marines and 2 5-6 squads of marines all deepstriking on turn 2. mission: The big cannons one The DK scare the hell out of me, because I never played against those things... my plan is to turbo out 2 empty razorbacks to remove the servo skulls and try to spread out my units to try to reduce the deepstrike zone for my enemy, while trying to fire down at least 2 razorbacks of the opponent in T1. My problem is how to prioritize the threats and how to react his list that was built having only 1 plan in mind... if someone could give me some advice I would rally appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Could you give a list of your oppenents army, as that will help us see what you were dealing with. My advice is do not let them play the 24" game with you because they win almost every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor3y Posted April 7, 2014 Author Share Posted April 7, 2014 his list from what I sow in one of the other games he played, is something like: Koteaz with some dudes, I think sanctioned psyonics. Had Unfortunatelly not time to ask for details 6 Razorbacks with Bolters, nothing inside and the Power6 upgrade 3 DK with Flamers and mixed equips on the other arm 10 Grey Knights with psycannons 2 squads of 5 Grey Knights with psycannons 3 servoskulls I have no other details at the moment, but these are the models he plays... the game I sow was: Koteaz protected in the rear while at the margin of the deployment zone, a line of the razorbacks that he sends all in a line to the opponent's side of the table. T2 get in with the rest in deep strike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 If the dread knights do not have personal teleporters try to shoot from out of reach, or do a null deployment list with drop pods to spoil his ability to alpha strike your whole army turn 2. He also looks like he is low on scoring units as without a grand master none of his dread knights score outside of big guns never tire. And they are still just amped up terminators they will die to making saves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor3y Posted April 8, 2014 Author Share Posted April 8, 2014 My list is fixed (and posted in the first post), and the mission is big guns never die :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 That is tough luck on the mission. But again dread knights die to forcing saves. Personally I would have dropped the predator annihilator for another Baal or vindicator if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I've played this particular list so many times, but without my opponent Deep Striking. It really depends if the Dread Knights have teleporters. If they do, they'll be much harder to deal with, but at this point value I doubt more than one will. The thing to keep in mind is AV 13 is a real pain for Grey Knights to deal with. That and they are really short ranged (24"). Turbo boost if you get first turn, otherwise castle up and make him come to you and protect your Vindicator that's going to be a prime target. You can probably largely ignore the Dread Knights. Best way to deal with them is just volume of fire. If you are good with the Vindicator you can one shot a squad per turn (even the Paladins) that's why I normally take 2. Too bad the Raven doesn't have an Assault Cannon or Hurricane Bolters. That goes a long way in doing damage to infantry lists like this. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor3y Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 That is tough luck on the mission. But again dread knights die to forcing saves. Personally I would have dropped the predator annihilator for another Baal or vindicator if you can. Unfortunatelly i cannot change the list... I've played this particular list so many times, but without my opponent Deep Striking. It really depends if the Dread Knights have teleporters. If they do, they'll be much harder to deal with, but at this point value I doubt more than one will. The thing to keep in mind is AV 13 is a real pain for Grey Knights to deal with. That and they are really short ranged (24"). Turbo boost if you get first turn, otherwise castle up and make him come to you and protect your Vindicator that's going to be a prime target. You can probably largely ignore the Dread Knights. Best way to deal with them is just volume of fire. If you are good with the Vindicator you can one shot a squad per turn (even the Paladins) that's why I normally take 2. Too bad the Raven doesn't have an Assault Cannon or Hurricane Bolters. That goes a long way in doing damage to infantry lists like this. Good luck! They have not, i just asked! no teleporters for them... So you think that the main problems will be the infantry instead of the GK's? Just one thing, you think that turboing 2 razorbacks to remove the servoskulls prior his deepstrike could be usefull? i'm well aware that it will mean the wrecking of the 2 razorbacks, but i suppose that 2 HF will not be that usefull! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Dreadknights cannot hit a zooming storm raven as both of the dreadknights weapons (assuming they have any) are templates, however only armed with a MM and LC you may need a few turns to even remove one. I agree that the vindicator is your best weapon against them, able to kill paladins in one hit due to instant death and no armour saves means that even an apothecary will be useless as no FNP rolls can be made. That will make it the prime target for him. I think using two 55 point vehicles to destroy three 5 point servo skulls is not the best idea. If it leaves them in an exposed position the psycannons will rip those things apart, giving him firstblood. The only advantage you have is the long range of the vindicator, storm raven and preds. Use them to weaken his units and then when they come into range use your other units to finish them off. I would advise not to assault Grey Knights as they have AP3 melee weapons as standard (Initiative 6 if upgraded) but if the unit is weak enough by the fire from the SR or vindicator then you should be able to manage. If you can focus fire (only concentrate on one unit at a time) without risk of retaliation then you should. Grey Knights are expensive and he will feel every loss. Don't forget that your vindicator and storm raven are scoring too. You may be able to reach a far off objective that he didn't think you could grab before the game ends, or at least deny him one. You might even be able to drop off a unit using Skies of Blood and then travel further with the raven to claim another objective. Contrary to my avatar, I play Grey Knights more than Blood Angels and I don't know if it's just my intimate knowledge of Blood Angel strategies but I've not lost a match going against them as Grey Knights. I do'nt want to put you off, only make you aware of the challenge ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor3y Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 I thank you for the feedback! My thought (probably wrong) is that i will never have range if they can safely (just 1d6 scatter) teleport at 10-12inches from my guys! That's why i thought of destroing the servoskulls and try to spread out. Otherwise i immagine his troops arrive on T2 near my deployment zone and fire by probably killing some guys, to then corner me on the border of the table or just simply charge me. As you said, it could take some time to kill the DK's, and those are probably his best ways to deal with my vehicles that couter his troops... I'll try as you said, i'll play on saturday and post a mini-report in my bad english ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 his DK's have to walk to you - that means you can focus on one and kill it, then manouvre away from the others. I'd also query his razorbacks - he has to take them as squad transports, and terminators cant take them so he needs 6 power armour and/or henchmen squads to get 6 razorbacks as far as I recall. If those 2 squads of 5 and 1 squyad of 10 are in power armour, then your heavy flamer razorbacks coudl reasonably make a horrible mess of them (2 razorbacks should reduce a 5 man squad to ineffectiveness or 1 razorback and if the squad gets out you ought to wipe it out with shooting or you double up on the big squad). generally, try to take out or thin out his trops on one flank then move that way away from the rest of his troops. If he deep strikes nice and close then pile into 1 or 2 squads and thin them out or assault them to remove his manouvrability adn move your remaining troops/vehicles away form him or if he splits up then move your army to a single squad and make sure it dies. Good luck though and give us a batrep when you can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Dread knights have deep strike those servo skulls are his plan to come in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 No,they apparently dont.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor3y Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 yes they have... why apparently they don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Your post yesterday at 10.33...? 'No teleporters for them' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quozzo Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Dreadknight armour acts like terminator armour, so they be teleported onto the battlefield using deepsrike rules (even if it's not the mission being played) and have 2+/5++ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor3y Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 Personal teleporters are needed to move faster on the board, not to deepstrike. I think they can deepstrike by default! Upps.. Just got ninjad btw generally, try to take out or thin out his trops on one flank then move that way away from therest of his troops. If he deep strikes nice and close then pile into 1or 2 squads and thin them out or assault them to remove hismanouvrability adn move your remaining troops/vehicles away form him orif he splits up then move your army to a single squad and make sure itdies. Good luck though and give us a batrep when you can I'll give a fastbatrep and thanks for the suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHarrower Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 They have not, i just asked! no teleporters for them… That’s good. I usually have to deal with the teleporters and that is much more of a problem. Without teleporters, Dread Knights are only moving 6" a turn. Your army is fast and should be able to outmaneuver 1 or 2 of them. I'd focus fire everything at the closest one that is posing a threat and make sure your Vindicator is dropping templates on his infantry or multiple Razorbacks if you can. As soon as he loses half a squad to a single shot or a couple Razorbacks, he'll make the Vindicator a priority target so try and keep it safe and away from the Dread Knights. So you think that the main problems will be the infantry instead of the GK's? Infantry are definitely going to be a problem. A lot of people usually worry about the big bad looking model on the table, but don’t let them intimidate you. Grey Knights lay down an insane amount of shots with Psycannons and Psybolt Ammo. Dread Knights are a pain, but the volume of fire from the infantry will probably give you more issues. Especially if he takes Prescience with Coteaz (which most Grey Knights players do). The Razorbacks will be an issue too. 3 shots twin-linked at S5 x6 isn’t going to be pretty and is going to put a hurting on your Tactical Squads. Just one thing, you think that turboing 2 razorbacks to remove the servoskulls prior his deepstrike could be usefull? i'm well aware that it will mean the wrecking of the 2 razorbacks, but i suppose that 2 HF will not be that usefull! Eh, it depends on the situation. You’re right that the heavy flamers aren’t going to be very useful, but you don’t want to needlessly give up First Blood and your Razorbacks will get shredded by Grey Knights fire. I absolutely hate starting the game 1 Victory Point down. It all depends on how he deploys them. If you can take 2 of them out with a single Razorback and just leave him with 1 to use I would definitely do that or if you can take out a Razorback and secure First Blood yourself then I would’t care so much. With a list like this I would think he is going to try and get at least 2-3 Dread Knights in your face and probably camp on the mid range objectives with his infantry/Razorbacks while giving supporting fire. No matter what happens, just play the mission. Don’t get caught up in a Dread Knight destroying one of your squads in close combat or something like that. Just always keep in mind you need to capture objectives and kill Heavy Support to win. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor3y Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 The game was delayed till next week. i'll post any updates... on this Saturday i played vs a Tau force (i played the list above)... The game finished with 1 free Objective and 2 contested, while secondary objectives finished 5 (First Blood, 3 Heavy supports destroyed and Slay the Warlord) - 3 ( 1 Heavy Support, Slay the Warlord and linebreaker) in my favour. His list was something like: 2 squads of broadsides full missiles and drones, 1 Heavy Support fire vehicle (forgot the name) with missiles that was destroyed first turn, 2 riptides, 3 firewarrior squads and 1 Crisis + HQ squad + drones that was jumping around... At the end, the only things not dead (game finished at turn 6) where my Deadnought, the Stormraven, the Predator Annihilator and 1 space marine sergeant, vs 1 Riptide with 1 wound left and 3 squads of firewarriors (3 man, 1 man, 3 man) and the guy that gives D10... Total carnage! If i have some time i'll try to make a few sketches of the match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cor3y Posted April 14, 2014 Author Share Posted April 14, 2014 Battle Field And Deployment... I deployed first and choose the deployment zone. Just for clarification, the building with the FireWarriors (3x FW) was enclosed and blocked los. Could not fire with Vindicator there Forgot to add to the image the DeathCompany, that is in the upmost corner of the BA deployment zone. normally i put the DC in the StormRaven, but due the presence of the 2 riptides, i decided to not do so. R => Riptide B => Broadside HQ => Crisis + General FW => Firewarriors Unlabeled Box => Some Tau Tank... destroyed 1 shot so i just forgot about it PA => Predator Annihilator R => Razorbacks - R1: 5 Tactical Marines 1 Melta - R2: 5 Tactical Marines 1 Melta - R3: 6 Assault Marines 1 Melta PB => Predator Baal (flanking) StormRaven and DC-Dradnought in reserve. DC => DeathCompany + Reclusiarc, forgot to add it to the image. Top Right corner The red points on the bottom right corner are the other 5 tactical marines with a missile launcher. Green points: Objectives (3 total) http://oi58.tinypic.com/o73kev.jpg My main plan was to send the razorbacks on the right flank to try to get his firewarriors and bait the fire of the riptide away from my annihilator, same role for the vindicator. I knew he had no S8 weapons, only S7 or S8 (area) on the riptides, so the bait with the vindicator would last at least 1 turn... My first turn: I destroy with the Annihilator his Tank, getting 2 points (First blood and Heavy Support), while the rest of the party moves forward... Holding my 2 objectives, the 5 man tacticals with missile launchers, managed to kill a few drones from the Broadside1 unit. Death Company goes on the right flank running around... He retaliates by destroing 2 of the 3 razorbacks. 2 Firewarriors units are moved on the top of the building to fire on the Razorback 3, but despite the milions of hits, the Razorback get's not a single glance. End Turn 1: http://oi57.tinypic.com/2882s6h.jpg The stormraven doesn't arrive, but the baal does. Unfortunatelly from the left side of the image. I wrap around and fire his Broadside 1 unit, in support of the Vindicator, but only the drones fall. In the meantime the Razorback 3 flamer kills 16 Firewarriors, leaving 2 squads completely crippled, but strangely noone flees. The retaliation fire from the Crisis-HQ kills 4 Assault Marines and the 5 Tacticals with melta that where leftovers of the Razorback 2 squad. At this point, i start praing for the Stormraven... End of Turn 2: http://oi58.tinypic.com/1z4zojr.jpg Stormraven does not arrive, but the fire of the Predator Baal destroys the Broadside 1 Unit, and the vindicator tries to fire on the Broadside 2, missing completely. Riptide1 annihilates with an enormous blast the Death Company, the remaining Assault marines and the Razorbak 3)... my mistake to put all those together... Riptide 2 charges the Baal, destroing (fortunatelly) only a weapon and leaving the predator crew stunned. End of turn 3: http://oi57.tinypic.com/2wr40w5.jpg Nothing particular happened in this turn... Stormraven and Predator Annihilator leave the Riptide 1 with 1 wound, while the Broadside 2 team stunned the Vindicator crue. The Riptide 2 Kills the Predator Baal and moves forward my tactical marines... i rolled successfully the additional turns... End of turn 4: http://oi60.tinypic.com/10fo0ad.jpg Really quick turn... Predator Annihilator destroys Riptide 1, while stormraven starts to soften up the Broadside 2 team, letting the Dreadnought charge his HQ and Crisis armors... The DC-Dreadnought destroyed 5 crisis and the General and a handfull of drones in 1 turn, with the Flamer and the charge... His Broadside2 Unit destroyed the Vindicator while Riptide 2 started to munch slowly on my tactical marines. End of Turn 5: http://oi59.tinypic.com/5wkm7r.jpg The Dreadnought tried to get to the firewarriors, but bad rolls on terrain prevented that from happening. The Stormraven destroyed the Broadside 2 team, netting another point! Riptide 2 charged in the other tactical squad. In the last turns i decided to let go the primary objectives due to the fact that the Riptide was always in melee in my turns and i could not destroy it with fire... End of Turn 6: http://oi58.tinypic.com/30k91dc.jpg Well, that's my battle-report. Poorly made and poorly written, but unfortunatelly i had not more time to prepare it... I'm looking forward the match vs the GK player, and hopefully the Emperor will send the stormraven in a little earlier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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