Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I think M2C just won this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gab Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 But nobody was 'assault oriented' in any legion. Everyone had a pistol, gladius equivalent, and a rifle. It's only because everyone is talking at cross purposes that this is relevant. Half are talking background and half are talking game. For instance Imperial Fists and Space Wolves can both take wrath of angels and run identical armies of identical selections. Nothing is lost and both adhere to the background. If you are talking about which legions were renowned for assaults, all of them were. Imperial Fist Phalanx were just as scary as Iron Hand Shield Walls and Ultramarine Testudos. Imperial Fist Assault Squads were just as nasty as Emperors Children or Sons of Horus. You can't judge a 30K legion like a 40K chapter because chapters are weak shadows of how terrific legions were. This! 30k is more balanced than 40k, there are few real differences between the legions, we make the difference when we build the types of armies that appeal to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 But nobody was 'assault oriented' in any legion. Everyone had a pistol, gladius equivalent, and a rifle. It's only because everyone is talking at cross purposes that this is relevant. Half are talking background and half are talking game. For instance Imperial Fists and Space Wolves can both take wrath of angels and run identical armies of identical selections. Nothing is lost and both adhere to the background. If you are talking about which legions were renowned for assaults, all of them were. Imperial Fist Phalanx were just as scary as Iron Hand Shield Walls and Ultramarine Testudos. Imperial Fist Assault Squads were just as nasty as Emperors Children or Sons of Horus. You can't judge a 30K legion like a 40K chapter because chapters are weak shadows of how terrific legions were. I'm like... at least 90% with you here, in spirit. Maybe more like 95. But while I agree that all of the Legions were balanced and ready for all manner of warfare (I think it'd be fun to do a small force of Salamander assault squads and jetbikes, for example, Nocturnal gravity be damned), it also seems clear that many of them won accolades, as Legions, for excelling in certain roles. The World Eaters were renowned for their butchery and rush for close assault, for example. If this thread was focused around a different area, if we were discussing siege warfare, I still agree with the general principle that all the Legions are trained in such and would excel at such. But surely the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists had the biggest reputation for such things. Arguably, a lot of that was remembrancers and army men simply projecting the traits of the primarch onto their Legion. But some Legions were definitely more esteemed in some areas than they were in others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I guess to find the close combat legion, we have to ask ourselves "which loyalist legion is the shooty-ist?" :D To which I reply well..uhh...I don't really know. They were all shooty I guess. I would say the top three are the angels and the wolves - Dark Angels? Well they are superior swords men and supposed to represent knights Blood Angels? They are known for their fierce assaults Space Wolves? These guys are berserkers and turn into freakin werewolves to fight And the question begs to be asked...what do you mean the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 My ? how can the Blood Angels be even considered when they have No set rules in 30k at the present or Dark Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 My ? how can the Blood Angels be even considered when they have No set rules in 30k at the present or Dark Angels. This wonderful thing called fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 Do you think it will translate onto the table top though? I mean the World Eaters are meant to be close combat monsters but imo their rules are luke warm and not very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathspectersgt7 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 But whose fluff? FW,BL,GW, Yours, mine . Plus just what WoT said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 World Eaters using their Rite of War and the right mix of units is incredibly nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevatar Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm in agreement with M2C. The World Eaters are very nasty. Off the bat you e all units with Hatred, Rage and the possibility of Furious Charge to boot. Very impressive. Also, the Red Butchers are plain nasty. 2 wound Terminator s who will hit likely on a 3+, Hatred and 3 S5 attacks. And, all World Eaters get +1 WS in challenges. That is great. Compare it to the poor Death Guard. Who get immunity to Pinning and Fear. What about Relentless for Tactical Squads? Etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 From my understanding each Rite of War is shaped towards a particular play style. In the case of the DG it look like you need to capitalize on heavy weapons and vets as troops, and use land raider terminators and dreadnaughts to do you killing of big expensive stuff. 20 Heavy support legionaries with autocannons sitting on an objective is a brutal prospect for any late game objective grabs. It's one thing to deal with snap shot bolters but quite another with the high strength hail of fire a scoring heavy weapons squad can manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armond Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I would say that true, there are Legions specifically bent towards HtH. However, on a side note, why worry about that? Why not pick what you like, and build an assault company. That is what I am thinking for a loyalist faction whenever I get my NLs further along I will pushing towards a Blood Angels, Ultramarines, or White Scars Fast Assault Company. Jump Troops, Assault Troops in transports/drop pods, Jetbikes, Javelins, etc... I figure until the next book comes out I have plenty of time to decide on that to work on my current stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 I'm in agreement with M2C. The World Eaters are very nasty. Off the bat you e all units with Hatred, Rage and the possibility of Furious Charge to boot. Very impressive. Also, the Red Butchers are plain nasty. 2 wound Terminator s who will hit likely on a 3+, Hatred and 3 S5 attacks. And, all World Eaters get +1 WS in challenges. That is great. Compare it to the poor Death Guard. Who get immunity to Pinning and Fear. What about Relentless for Tactical Squads? Etc... Hahahahahaha Oh that's precious. DG worse off than WEs? That's funny. You guys get rad grenades for sergeants, scoring heavy weapon squads, immunity to fear (huge when there are primarchs and other fear causing units), not to mention chem weapons. The red butchers? Not that bad, but they are still a sacrificial unit as if they bump into other terminators or a praetor they are boned. They will die to axe termies easily and allow them to hit back easier. They will just bounce off of 3++ units and praetors will just slice them up with paragon blades. WEs get chainaxes. Whoopdee do. Ap4 against marine armor is silly. +1 WS in challenges? Yeah right against an IF one that can reroll hits and wounds. Reroll 1s on a run? Hahaha. That's a 1 in 6 chance that can result in another 1, not to mention your troops should be shooting or transported. Your primarch gets a free 10" movement and 2+ armor. You don't have it quite as bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 World Eaters Rite of War is built for Armored Rush. A Land Raider Squadron of Three Phobos for your three compulsory Despoiler Squads, then a 1:1 ratio of terminators to Land Raiders, and a decent HQ is a strong list with lots of anti-tank built in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyld Fireblade Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 The Dark Angels are specifically mentioned in book three as being expert close combat fighters. Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Mentioned as dolorous blade work in their sword fighting techniques in book 3. Dolorous in the sense of causing great misery or grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyld Fireblade Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Mentioned as dolorous blade work in their sword fighting techniques in book 3. Dolorous in the sense of causing great misery or grief. What page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 In the Iron Warriors section talking about the IV Legions tenacity in assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted April 20, 2014 Author Share Posted April 20, 2014 I was thinking about Dark Angels but I couldn't deal with the black, I suck at painting black, I need an army I can apply paint to neatly, I'm not the best at highlighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 the DA have always been noted as awe-worthy swordsman, true knights in that sense. WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reckoning Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Blood Angels - I believe they have a rivalry with the World Eaters going on, some are already manifesting signs of the Red Thirst Not to derail this thread, but how is that even possible? Not flaming, genuinely intrigued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinoDoc Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 This reminds me. I really need to come up with a passable Shabran Darr army list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I'm in agreement with M2C. The World Eaters are very nasty. Off the bat you e all units with Hatred, Rage and the possibility of Furious Charge to boot. Very impressive. Also, the Red Butchers are plain nasty. 2 wound Terminator s who will hit likely on a 3+, Hatred and 3 S5 attacks. And, all World Eaters get +1 WS in challenges. That is great. Compare it to the poor Death Guard. Who get immunity to Pinning and Fear. What about Relentless for Tactical Squads? Etc... HahahahahahaOh that's precious. DG worse off than WEs? That's funny. You guys get rad grenades for sergeants, scoring heavy weapon squads, immunity to fear (huge when there are primarchs and other fear causing units), not to mention chem weapons. The red butchers? Not that bad, but they are still a sacrificial unit as if they bump into other terminators or a praetor they are boned. They will die to axe termies easily and allow them to hit back easier. They will just bounce off of 3++ units and praetors will just slice them up with paragon blades. WEs get chainaxes. Whoopdee do. Ap4 against marine armor is silly. +1 WS in challenges? Yeah right against an IF one that can reroll hits and wounds. Reroll 1s on a run? Hahaha. That's a 1 in 6 chance that can result in another 1, not to mention your troops should be shooting or transported. Your primarch gets a free 10" movement and 2+ armor. You don't have it quite as bad I think WE fine as is, do they kill all other CC units like its nothing? No. But they still are head and shoulders above all the rest in close combat. DG tactics aren't great but your upgrades and special units are the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Blood Angels - I believe they have a rivalry with the World Eaters going on, some are already manifesting signs of the Red Thirst Not to derail this thread, but how is that even possible? Not flaming, genuinely intrigued. Red Thirst is a genetic divergence specific to the Blood Angels and likely present at their inception, but has steadily grown worse over time. The Black Rage is an aspect of the Blood Angels mental make-up that is said to be triggered by visions of Sanguinius' death at Horus' hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reckoning Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Blood Angels - I believe they have a rivalry with the World Eaters going on, some are already manifesting signs of the Red Thirst Not to derail this thread, but how is that even possible? Not flaming, genuinely intrigued. Red Thirst is a genetic divergence specific to the Blood Angels and likely present at their inception, but has steadily grown worse over time. The Black Rage is an aspect of the Blood Angels mental make-up that is said to be triggered by visions of Sanguinius' death at Horus' hands. Ah, I thought both the Red Thirst and Black Rage were caused exclusively from Horus killing Sanny. I need to catch up on the HH... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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