What else for anti-armor 30K?

[depthcharge12]

Makes sense thanks

[Tiger9gamer]

So would the Rifleman Dread talon be good as a support unit?

 

 

And cool, the Lightning seems really good! is it expensive though?

[Marshal Rohr]

Its less expensive than a Storm Eagle tooled up for anti-tank, but thats because it can't transport troops. It can be more survivable to anti-aircraft fire too, it comes with chaff launchers and armored cockpit. 

[Kilofix]

If you've got the cash for it, Lightning Primaris with Battle Servitor Control and 6 Kraken Penetrator missiles. Tank Hunter and all those nasty anti-armor special rules, and the twin-linked lascannon. It'll pop a spartan a turn until the missiles run out, then the lascannons alone aren't anything to scoff at. 

 

Wow, I forgot about the Lightning too. I acutally bought one when I was still only doing 40K just to paint it cause I thought it was cool. Now I can actually use it. Just need to retrofit / retrim it slightly.

 

Thanks for reminding me!

 

Edit - Back when I got it for 40K, everyone was saying it was trash (and it was). And to prove a point, they shot it down the first turn it came on in the Apoc game / the only game I fielded it in. Lol. Which was why I hadn't thought about using it for some time.

 

But guess it has a proper place now in 30K, especially with its 30K loadout.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

If you've got the cash for it, Lightning Primaris with Battle Servitor Control and 6 Kraken Penetrator missiles. Tank Hunter and all those nasty anti-armor special rules, and the twin-linked lascannon. It'll pop a spartan a turn until the missiles run out, then the lascannons alone aren't anything to scoff at. 

 

Wow, I forgot about the Lightning too. I acutally bought one when I was still only doing 40K just to paint it cause I thought it was cool. Now I can actually use it. Just need to retrofit / retrim it slightly.

 

Thanks for reminding me!

 

Not a problem. They are awesome to look at with strong rules to back them up. 

[Coopervisor]

Sicaran Venator. So far it's my single best anti vehicle unit. Taking out a vehicle pretty much every turn it fires. Only 36 inch range, but it's on a fast vehicle. 

 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

From what I understand, the Venator is best at being an area denial vehicle. You put it behind cover with an arc of fire that is designed to keep people from shooting it while it pops any tanks that are trying to come around the side of your main force. 

[Tiger9gamer]

I forgot about the Venator! that thing looks awesome as hell. It's a fast, longer range vindicator too! is it too expensive though?

 

 

Im interested in non Heavy support anti- tank as I'm planning on starting my Raven Guard HH army soon, so decapitating strike would be my goal. Only one heavy support allowed for the RoW. I'm mostly looking for long range/ fast things to support the main infiltration force.

 

I wish the lightning was for regular 40k Marines too =( that thing is epic looking. 

 

what about the Scorpius? d3+1 of str 8 barrage can take out some tanks.

[Moonstalker]

So would the Rifleman Dread talon be good as a support unit?

 

 

And cool, the Lightning seems really good! is it expensive though?

 

The lightning is massively expensive, money-wise.  And it can be expensive points-wise.  I think it's best if you just stick to the Kraken and/or Sunfury missiles, focus on a devastating alpha strike with it (it can fire 4 missiles per turn).  You can put 6 weapons on it, but I think it's too risky to put that many points into so fragile an aircraft.

 

And no, a Rifleman Dread talon is a terrible support unit.  Maybe in a really, really large game where you somehow have tons of points but are strapped for force org slots because you somehow haven't moved into Apoc.  They're 140 each, and put out 4 TL BS5 autocannon shots.  A Predator puts out 4 BS4 autocannon shots for 75 points.

 

As for the Venator... it's kind of a side-grade from the Sicaran.  Assuming you're fielding the Venator stock and the Sicaran Battle Tank with lascannon sponsons, they're within 15 points of each other.  The Venator has a higher chance of making something blow up outright while the SIcaran will have a better chance at just stripping lots of hull points (especially against things like Rhinos, standard dreads, landspeeders).  The Venator also brings a useful ability to force a vehicle (even a superheavy) that is penned by its main gun to only fire snap shots in the following turn - incredibly useful at shutting down the fire from a Typhon, Warhound, Fellblade, etc (anything that uses templates/blasts for its big gun).  With Ordnance on its main gun forcing all other guns to fire as snap shots, throwing lascannons on the Venator is actually pointless.

[Tiger9gamer]

yea, the rifleman does seem too expensive. I'm mostly looking for good long range support outside of heavy slots.  I had good experiences with them though. Query: did you use the contemptors for the points, or regular dreads? regular dreads shouldn't be that expensive O.o

 

are speeders and attack bikes good?

[Moonstalker]

Regular dreads.  Rifleman Contemptors are 190 each.  The normal dreads are 20 points more expensive than those out of C:SM when outfitted with double autocannon.  The only real justification for that that I can think of is that they have WS5 BS5.

 

Edit: I don't really rate suicide melta attack bikes as any good, simply because armored ceramite is a thing.  It's a much bigger gamble than it would bein 40k, at least.  They have a very interesting option to take an autocannon, though, which might give you some mobile light AT fire.  Same for speeders, rushing them up the field/deep striking them to melta something is just not quite as viable, especially with augury scanners around to intercept them or sicarans just ripping them out of the sky.  Land Speeder Javelins seem like they might work, but I'm not really adept at the kind of skirmish tactics they seem to require on the tabletop.  I'm an astartes at heart, not Eldar.

[Brofist]

Regarding Sicaran vs Predators, they both have a place. I love the Sicaran models and they are better at killing skimmers and AV14. That said, a humble predator with las sponsons has a higher chance of blowing up anything AV13 or lower (albiet with less glances) for the same points. Throwing sponsons on the sicaran makes it all around better, but its costly.

Autocannon/Lascannon Predators are good and cheap. Sicarans are better.

 

Vindicators with LasDestroyer arrays are good Tank Destroyers. If a Spartan is charging up the field, you can pretty easily arrange a side-shot for the Vindicator. Even easier if you give it machine spirit, but I'm not sure that's worth the points on the lasdestroyer armed variant (definitely worth it for the demolisher-armed one).

I don't think I'd ever take a Vindicator with the laser destroyer. For that price you can get 3 rapiers with the same weapon and they are way more durable (albeit less mobile).

 

 

Pro choice on the Medusa though. Two of those will tear things up thanks to barrage and ordinance.

[Tiger9gamer]

What about Mechanicum allies? a magos of Taghmata and some thralls along with two of those Krios tanks with ordinance 4 guns can provide some anti-armor.

[Moonstalker]

 

Regarding Sicaran vs Predators, they both have a place. I love the Sicaran models and they are better at killing skimmers and AV14. That said, a humble predator with las sponsons has a higher chance of blowing up anything AV13 or lower (albiet with less glances) for the same points. Throwing sponsons on the sicaran makes it all around better, but its costly.

Autocannon/Lascannon Predators are good and cheap. Sicarans are better.

 

Vindicators with LasDestroyer arrays are good Tank Destroyers. If a Spartan is charging up the field, you can pretty easily arrange a side-shot for the Vindicator. Even easier if you give it machine spirit, but I'm not sure that's worth the points on the lasdestroyer armed variant (definitely worth it for the demolisher-armed one).

I don't think I'd ever take a Vindicator with the laser destroyer. For that price you can get 3 rapiers with the same weapon and they are way more durable (albeit less mobile).

 

 

Pro choice on the Medusa though. Two of those will tear things up thanks to barrage and ordinance.

 

I did a bunch of Mathhammer in my army list thread for Predators and Sicarans, and the difference between them is really pretty small when you get down to it.  Sicarans are definitely better against AV14, Predators are better against MC's, and the Preds are a little more durable, point-for-point, so long as you can maintain range and armor facing.  Fielding Sicarans without lascannons is just silly, though.  I cannot think of a situation where I would not field the standard sicaran without the lascannon sponsons.  The venator without, yes.  If you can only take one, take the Sicaran, but if you're starting to look at a bigger choice... a Predator squadron is probably a better use of the heavy support slot.

 

That also carries over to the Vindicator.  The Rapiers (you can only get about 2 of them for the cost of the Vindicator with lasdestroyer) occupy the much less valuable elite slot, and you get up to 3 per slot, vs the Vindicator which cannot be taken in squadrons.  But if you wanted to do a fluffy armored force, where you have battle tanks supported by assault guns, self propelled guns, and tank destroyers, you might look at a Vindicator.

 

And, in the example I gave, that mobility was pretty key to the strategy for countering the hypothetical spartan.

[coloroutofspace]

There are some venerable choices out there from the good old times when, FW aside, GW was doing a good job. Bikers aka Outriders are one such example. There are FW models for those available, but the original GW design of the bike itself was always somehow appealing to me. So they can all have melta bombs and with some skill from the player, they can do a good job. Oh, and now they have their flying variety available, also with melta bombs and an optional multi-melta. Very Raven Guard. Or Ravenwing?

MM Attack Bikes? These are really not so bad. Armored Ceramite or not, that melta shot to the side is worth more than a Krak Missile shot from afar to the front of a vehicle, which was parked in a cover.

You can put Graviton Guns on regular Speeders, if you thing you need Graviton. But I'd rather go with 2 Javelin Speeders with Las. Manouver to find the week spot, fire.

With Bikes and Speeders the game becomes more dynamic. Some people think this means fun ;)

Or bring a Volcano Cannon, like I do. (seriously, D-weapons anyone?)

What else do we have? Ah, a Krakstorm Pod. Or two. Go Raven Guard.

Sicarian Venator is a good bet. Because when Fellblades are coming...

Whirlwinds of any kind are no good for this role. Predators with Conversion Beamers are no good at all. TLLC Contemptor Mortis is worth considering. Regular Contemptors should be left pointed at enemy infantry or Rhinos and such.

There's no need to involve Mechanicum, let them tend to their circuits.

Also, a Primarch could be considered AT, no? :D

[Sanct]

I like the idea of autocannon attack bikes with melta bombs but i've yet to try it.

 

If you can manage the forge lord then castellax with darkfire is comparable to laser destroyer rapiers.

 

The grav land speeder has potential but it's so very fragile and has to get rapid fire range close to use the grav

[depthcharge12]

I like the idea of autocannon attack bikes with melta bombs but i've yet to try it.

 

If you can manage the forge lord then castellax with darkfire is comparable to laser destroyer rapiers.

 

The grav land speeder has potential but it's so very fragile and has to get rapid fire range close to use the grav

 

I wanted to run the same thing but FW hasn't released a model kit for the AC bikes :/

 

I think they would do middlingly well. If you play iron hands they would effectively be mobile T6 2W models

[Hyaenidae]

 

I like the idea of autocannon attack bikes with melta bombs but i've yet to try it.

 

If you can manage the forge lord then castellax with darkfire is comparable to laser destroyer rapiers.

 

The grav land speeder has potential but it's so very fragile and has to get rapid fire range close to use the grav

 

I wanted to run the same thing but FW hasn't released a model kit for the AC bikes :/

 

I think they would do middlingly well. If you play iron hands they would effectively be mobile T6 2W models

 

I was debating buying three Elysian Tauros Assault Vehicles, and giving them Legionnaire drivers, and swapping the flamer for a pintle-like Autocannon.

[Kais Klip]

I doubt those rackety things can withstand the weight of one legionnaire, let alone three.

[Emperor's Furor]

Have an autocannon armed marine standing on the bike platform rather than sitting, alternatively convert the heavy bolter by replacing it's barrel with a long autocannon one.

[Hyaenidae]

I doubt those rackety things can withstand the weight of one legionnaire, let alone three.

 

If GW says I can fit ten guys into the cramped confines of a Rhino, then I can fit two guys on a Tauros.  :P

[Hydriatus]

^

Plus, my friend is doing that to represent Salamander landspeeders, and it works. Granted you have to remove one bar from the cockpit which is at right about eye level for a marine driver...

[Kilofix]

Just a quick update.

 

Ordered a Sicaran Venator and 3 Laser Rapiers. Hopefully they arrive in time for ETL.

 

Also going to use my Lightning, Spartan, Dual AC Contemptor Mortis - which I already had.

 

Along with proxying in my 40K ML heavy support, Vindicator and Predator I think I'm set.

 

Thanks again for all the replies!