Clone Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I'm thinking ol' Belakor may be CSM's best daemon summoner. Since all pychers ('cept GK) get access to Malefic daemonolgy, I don't see a reason why he wouldn't roll 3 dice on that chart, along with knowing all of Telepathy. Also having EW maybe be super helpful for dealing with the perils of the warp. If they are anything like fantasy's miscasts, I'd expect some S 10 templates...er... blasts Also, with the changes to jink (you can choose to jink on a 4+, but have to snap fire (not a big deal)) providing a 2+ cover save and grounding tests only at the end of shooting and only on a wound...this guy can stay up in the air buffing, debuffing, summoning daemons, throwing out witchfires, and then come down for some late game cleanup :) If you're lucky you could get extra power dice from failed fear tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Does he roll for different powers? I thought he knew all teleapthy, and that was it. No rolling on other disciplines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clone Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 Â Does he roll for different powers? I thought he knew all teleapthy, and that was it. No rolling on other disciplines. 7th edition leaks say that all psykers get access to demonology. Grey knights only get santic while Daemons only get malefic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FENRISÚLFUR Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014   Does he roll for different powers? I thought he knew all teleapthy, and that was it. No rolling on other disciplines. 7th edition leaks say that all psykers get access to demonology. Grey knights only get santic while Daemons only get malefic. All Psykers that roll for powers can choose to take powers from Daemonology, but since Be'Lakor does not roll I would bet that he does not get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Zhukov, will you be written up a new review on Be'lakor when 7th ed of Warhammer 40,000 is release this weekend? I'd be intrested to find out if any changes effect him/how he will be with the updated rules.  Hopeful be buying my Be'lakor model in the next few weeks as well :DIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Will be interesting to see if he has any choice of psychic powers or stays the same. Still looks to be an amazing flying support unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 All factions gain access to at least one brand of daemonology (all but Grey Knights and Daemons get both), but that doesn't mean individual psykers with locked lore access like Typhus or Belakor will. Â I expect there to be no changes to Belakor's rules, which means he'll still get all of telepathy and nothing else. Â Which means Belakor will lose his best offensive ability, the one that made him our go to response to superheavies. Â However, the D weapon nerf means that such a tool is not as critical as it used to be, the primeris is a pretty decent offensive option (not amazing like puppet master, but still), and he's still got some excellent support options in the lore. Â Invisibility is arguably more useful than ever on a big blob of chaos spawn, and in particular remains helpful even in the face of 'ignores cover' weapons. Â It also can be used on Belakor himself to shield him from skyfier. Â And while the shroud spell doesn't stack with the shroud belakor already has, as a 6" aura it's still quite useful. Â I think puppet master is a bigger loss than some have made out, and Belakor's certainly less fun without it, but he'll still be a functional support caster & late game assaulter to pick off isolated units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Well, with the new invisibility we can buff our mace-prince when he has to be on the ground for assaulting...and shrouding has high value as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 All factions gain access to at least one brand of daemonology (all but Grey Knights and Daemons get both), but that doesn't mean individual psykers with locked lore access like Typhus or Belakor will. I expect there to be no changes to Belakor's rules, which means he'll still get all of telepathy and nothing else. Which means Belakor will lose his best offensive ability, the one that made him our go to response to superheavies. However, the D weapon nerf means that such a tool is not as critical as it used to be, the primeris is a pretty decent offensive option (not amazing like puppet master, but still), and he's still got some excellent support options in the lore. Invisibility is arguably more useful than ever on a big blob of chaos spawn, and in particular remains helpful even in the face of 'ignores cover' weapons. It also can be used on Belakor himself to shield him from skyfier. And while the shroud spell doesn't stack with the shroud belakor already has, as a 6" aura it's still quite useful. I think puppet master is a bigger loss than some have made out, and Belakor's certainly less fun without it, but he'll still be a functional support caster & late game assaulter to pick off isolated units. I don't see why people are saying Be'lakor wouldn't roll on Malefic, every pyscher except GK can. Sure he never rolled in 6th, but its not because his rules say not to, it's just he didn't need to as the rules says he knows all of Telepathy....not he only knows the lore of telepathy. His rules don't need to be rewritten they work in 7th perfectly, they already do. IMHO, it seems like they had 7th in mind while making his datastale....Lord of Torment Following the logic that prevents Be'lakor from knowing malefic, wouldn't Fateweaver also not have access....????.....i think not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 What, did you think belekor had all of telepathy and rolled spells on biomancy or something before? Â Every faction has access to daemonology. Â Not every individual psyker. Â I do not have the daemon book in front of me, but if he generates powers normally, then he has access. Â If he knows all the spells of his lore, but gets to pick his lore, he has access. Â If he knows all his spells from specific lore that he does not get to choose, then he does not have access to other lores, and thus does not have access to daemonology. Â This isn't even complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 From the Leaked Image The Disciple of Daemonology Unless otherwise stated, all psykers, other than those belonging to the Tyranids Faction, can generate powers from the Damonology displine  read it here if you can't find it http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/595686.page  So yes...every individual psyker  And no I didn't roll for Biomancy because there is nothing saying he can.  Our Sorcs explicitly say which tables they can generate powers from, Be'laklor doesn't have that...  ...but now, there is something saying he does generate powers from somewhere else  oh and Kairos has 2 heads each lvl 4 Both heads know all of change the right head also generates 1 power from Pyromancy and Divination the left head also generates 1 power from Telepathy and Biomancy at the start of each turn, choose which head to use .... so yeah its a little complicated, but still pretty clear....nothing stops him from doing malefic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Yeah. Be'Lakore and Fateweaver have set disciplins. Codex has access to Daemonology, but codex rules currently state what disciplines each psyker can select. I would expect a FAQ/Errata to change it. What I wouldn't count on is Be'Lakore and Fatey changing. Also, highest LD doesn't need to be Warlord. I would expext an all Daekon Flying Circus now without CSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Yeah. Be'Lakore and Fateweaver have set disciplins. Codex has access to Daemonology, but codex rules currently state what disciplines each psyker can select. I would expect a FAQ/Errata to change it. What I wouldn't count on is Be'Lakore and Fatey changing. Also, highest LD doesn't need to be Warlord. I would expext an all Daekon Flying Circus now without CSM. What do you mean by 'set disciplines'? Is that a new rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBasser Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 The whole UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE part of daemonology. Fateweavers heads generating powers from SET disciplines; Biomancy, Diviniation, Pyromancy, and Telepathy would be considered OTHERWISE. Then for Be'Lakore knowing all Telepathy is OTHERWISE. Sorryfor caps, don't have time to underline important parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Still don't know what you mean by 'set disciplines' .... Well we will have to agree to disagree on this I would assume anything that refers to the "UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE" part of daemonology would include some sort of restrictive language...like "only" "restricted" "no other" "but" you know stuff that says you can't do something... Be'lakor and Fateweaver don't have anything like that. Â Only permissive statements... IDK why someone would think some of the most powerful Daemon Psychers can't summon any, yet lowly heralds and even Eldar and Space Marines can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 I can say about Be'lakor in 7th that he's still amongst the strongest units: Invisibility is straight-up broken on any kind of deathstar unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDevourer Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I tend to agree to that sentiment! ;) Â Seems to be a must take for cd and csm if you're planning on playing any kind of death star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 And no I didn't roll for Biomancy because there is nothing saying he can. Â Our Sorcs explicitly say which tables they can generate powers from, Be'laklor doesn't have that... "Chaos Space Marine Psykers have access to the Biomancy, Pyromancy, and Telepathy disciplines." pg 70 of the codex. Â By your logic, he should have gotten all of telepathy, and rolled powers on bio or pyro from the start, at least when taken as part of a CSM detachment. Â Literally nobody thought this or played this way. It was clear to everyone that his mastery of telepathy was instead of generating other powers, regardless of which psychic lores he might otherwise have access to. I don't see any way that would be different in 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbone Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014  And no I didn't roll for Biomancy because there is nothing saying he can.  Our Sorcs explicitly say which tables they can generate powers from, Be'laklor doesn't have that... "Chaos Space Marine Psykers have access to the Biomancy, Pyromancy, and Telepathy disciplines." pg 70 of the codex.  By your logic, he should have gotten all of telepathy, and rolled powers on bio or pyro from the start, at least when taken as part of a CSM detachment.  Literally nobody thought this or played this way. It was clear to everyone that his mastery of telepathy was instead of generating other powers, regardless of which psychic lores he might otherwise have access to. I don't see any way that would be different in 7th.   Wrong that is not my logic.  The statement you refer to on page 70 simply says CSM psykers has 'access' .... then it goes on to say that for each psyker level he has a Psyker "may roll on one of the tables available to him"  This makes it pretty clear that whatever discipline you are rolling on, you must be able to generate the powers from that discipline, in order to qualify as 'available to him' .... this is after all in the Generating Psychic Powers section  We all already know that not every single psyker in the CSM book can 'generate' powers from Bio, pyro, and Tele.  Take a look at Typhus, Asp Sorcs for example .... and well Be'lakor  If Be'lakor's rules actually said mastery of telepathy was instead of generating other powers, then I'm totally with you...but that is not what it says.  Its says he knows all Telepathy....that's it!  The new ruleset says he (falling under the umbrella of 'all pyskers') can generate powers from Malefic...why is this so complicated?  This maybe a bit off topic but i think this illustrates some of the confusion with the new pskyer rules, I've heard a lot of people saying "YAAAAaaa CSM get access to div....BOOOOOoooo the balestar is worthless now" .... this all stems from the extra card you get with the new psychic which shows which factions have access to which disciplines....and there happens to be a checkmark next to CSM and divination (haven't found anything in the actual rulebook on this).  So what does that mean?  Yeah we (CSM as Crimson Slaugter) had access in 6th when the Balestar came out. Nothing has changed.  Unless our regular sorcerers get an errata that says they can "generate" powers from divination, then they can't....you'll have to grab the balestar if you want to do that.  The purpose of the faction/discipline matrix card is to make it easier to figure out who has access to what when deciding what spells to generate....it's not a ruleset...if it was it would be in the rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 A bit of threadomancy here, but...  from the rulebook, in the chapter on the psychic phase, under 'Generating Psychic Powers' (no page number, I'm working with the digital book here):    In some Army List Entries, a Psyker will have one or more specific psychic powers listed - where this is the case, it will be clearly stated.  These Psykers always start the game with those psychic powers.  Otherwise, a Psyker generates random psychic powers from amongst the psychic disciplines known to him  Be'lakor's army list entry clearly states that he has one or more specific psychic powers - in particular, all powers from the telepathy discipline - and as such does not generate random psychic powers as other psykers do.  Whether he has access to malefic is irrelevant, since because he is listed as having specific powers, he doesn't generate powers in the usual way regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 yep. he is a invisibot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Now, now, Jeske.  Shroud and and the witchfire primeris are decent, too.  Still not as fun or diverse a discipline as it was before puppet master was killed and hallucination and terrify nerfed into the ground.  And it's far worse for the game as a whole, considering that it went from a discipline with three potential answers for deathstars to one with no answers for deathstars and one power that makes them potentially one heck of a lot worse....  Look, I know invisibility is great and all, but I just really, really miss the old telepathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 Not saying other powers are bad. But if someone takes him it will be to get a second source of invisi , and it will be the spell he tries to cast each turn. In my eye that makes him an invisbot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 There's a first guaranteed source of invis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 That's not what Jeske means, nor actually writes. He means that you'll be rolling on telepathy with sorcerers and/or Heralds, hoping to roll invisibility there, in which case Be'lakor is the 2nd source of invisiblity. In the case you don't roll invisibility he'll be the 1st and only source ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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