1000 points Salamanders starter force

[Kor'Vesh]

So this is a list I think could work at this low points level. I'm keen to use a unique salamanders unit, and I feel that at this points level, pyroclasts might bring the most to the table, provided I get them where I need them. To achieve this, I'll steal the tactical squad rhino for them.

 

Praetor - Refractor field, Paragon blade (MC), volkite serpenta: Covenant of Fire

(Can go with the pyroclasts or the small tactical squad)

 

Tactical Squad - 15 marines, Sarg with a combi-melta

 

Tactical Squad - 10 Marines, Sarg with a powersword

Rhino with combi - melta (bought for the 10 man squad but taken by the Pyroclasts)

 

Pyroclasts - 5 Pyros, Warden with Master crafted Flame projector

 

Predator - executioner plasma cannon

 

Sicaran - with lascanon Sponsons and Hull Heavy flamer

 

1000 points (I think it's dead on, but I'll edit it with some rough points later).

 

Originally I wasn't planning on going with a praetor and the Rite of War, but after I'd put everything in the list bar the HQ, I realised I had the points, and that the covenant of Fire actually adds a lot - saves for the tanks, move through cover, scoring Pyros and MC combi meltas. Seems worth it. I guess the Pred would be better with heavy bolter sponsons and a strorm shield of the preator would help too, but this is where I'm at currently.

 

I'd love to hear some alternative ideas, especially that make an effective but thematic Salamanders force. Thanks,

 

Kor'Vesh

[Moonstalker]

Woof! Nasty list. I can see this working just fine as is. There's a strong core to this that I like.

 

1. Sicaran. Great choice always, and works well here is your ranged anti-tank and emergency anti-air.

2. Praetor/Pyroclasts/RoW. Getting those Pyroclasts as a troops choice gives you 3 scoring units at 1k, strong anti-terminator through their meltaguns and the Praetor's Paragon Blade, strong anti-tank, and with artificer armor all around they're a strong unit.

3. Big tactical squad.

4. Predator Executioner for knocking chunks out of enemy tactical squads.

 

Things I don't like? Well, that mostly boils down to needing the Rhino for the Pyroclasts and the way you've got a 10 man tactical squad...sorta loafing about. You'll have to do some transport-hopping-in shenanigans on turn 1, and that Rhino itself is just so much scrap metal in 30k. I don't know whether it'll be a Sicaran, a Predator, a Contemptor Mortis, or a Heavy Support Squad that kills it, but that transport is almost guaranteed dead every game and you're putting a lot of egg-points in that transport-basket.

 

 

 

Now, this is just a suggestion of how I'd go about things. I think your list is probably workable as-is, and I like the idea of the Praetor/Pyroclasts/RoW combo, but I just think I would do it differently.

 

 

Praetor

 

10x Tacticals, Sergeant with AA, Power Axe, Meltabomb

10x Tacticals, Sergeant with AA, Power Axe, Meltabomb

Rhino

Rhino

 

Pyroclast Squad

Land Raider Proteus

 

This is only 880 points, so there's another 120 points for wargear for the Proteus, Pyroclast sergeant, and the Praetor. Though, perhaps instead of the Rhinos I would boost each tactical squad to 15 men - that's probably better for scaling up to larger point games, as you can just add some more men and some apothecaries to enhance your existing squads, where the rhino-mounted squads don't have any room to grow. That would leave only 90 points for wargear for the Proteus and Praetor. Plenty for a hull mounted heavy flamer on the Proteus and some nice toys for the Praetor. Definitely the mantle, an AP2 melee weapon, and an invul save - whatever you can afford. The Praetor is such a big points-sink at this level that you can't afford to see him splatted. He's what will carry that Pyroclast squad through if they get stuck in against the remains of a Terminator squad after a round of melta-ing.

 

The meltabombs, meltaguns, and 2x TL lascannons you've got should do alright for your anti-tank at this points level. You're probably going to miss out on having the Sicaran and Predator - they're each some good, solid units to have backing you up, and I'd definitely think about adding one or both back in as you expand the list. You can also throw armored ceramite on the Proteus as you expand - until then, the 5+ invul vs meltaguns and meltabombs that you get from the RoW should make it an absolute pain to deal with. Likewise, as you expand, the Refractor field on your Praetor could become an Iron Halo.

 

Edit: Thinking about it, I'd definitely go with the footslogging 15 man tactical squads over the Rhino mounted ones. I just don't trust Rhinos. They're too fragile in this edition and setting.

[Kor'Vesh]

Thanks for the response Kitwulfen.

 

The Rhino is dead. I essentially accept this, the aim is really try and ensure it lasts until turn 2, and to get the pyroclasts onto a forward objective, or into a useful position. Having not played a 30K game yet, maybe the hope of it lasting until turn 2 is optimistic, but I think it has a shot. As the army grows I'm planning to go for an 8 man Pyroclast squad in a scouting land raider, because it sounds hilarious fun :)

 

I was actually expecting more questioning of the rite of war - the Praetor is a bit expensive, but I think both he and the rite bring a lot to the list, so I'm glad you agree.

 

Weirdly enough, the list you wrote was VERY close to my first iteration, though this used a standard centurion, no rite, and I had the Executioner. With this I was worried that I had too many points in transports, and not enough things to do the killing. I was also paranoid about losing the Landraider to a Laser destroyer rapier very early on... Landraiders are so hard to hide! Maybe I'll look at that list again, but with the Praetor, rite and foot-sloggers. I would like a heresey era tank in there too, if possible.

 

As an aside - I recently discovered you army list thread Kitwulfen, and really enjoyed it. Did you start up a Plog somewhere as I'd like to watch your Luna Wolves develop?

 

Kor'Vesh

[Moonstalker]

Glad you found my long-winded ramblings enjoyable.  No log yet, I'm actually still waiting on my first batch of units to arrive.  My camera is also a potato.  I got a nexus 7 for my birthday (which I mostly use to watch movies while I'm on the treadmill), which has a less spud-like camera, but it's front mounted and difficult to aim.  So, we'll see.  I do want to do some kind of log, but I'm not terribly well set up for it.  If I could be sure my models would get here soon, I'd be tempted to put in an ETL vow and just go right for painting, but I'm not sure they'll be here in time.  So I'm just gonna sit this ETL out while debating just focusing my hobby budget on buying models, getting them assembled, primed, etc, doing a few test figures, and waiting till ETL IV to actually get the full paint going.

 

The Land Raider Proteus is a heresy-era tank, it actually lacks assault vehicle or the front ramp that the more familiar Phobos has.  Stock, it also lacks a front-arc hull weapon, but it's 50 points cheaper than a Land Raider Phobos like that while still having the most useful weapons onboard (the lascannons).  The threat of losing it to a lucky shot from a Rapier is a pretty real one, but it's a risk I might be willing to take.  Depends on your local meta, like usual.

 

Normally, I'd vehemently oppose a Praetor + RoW in anything less than 2000 points.  Buuut... basically Salamanders.  Their RoW grants some very tangible benefits with essentially ignorable drawbacks, and Salamanders Praetors are currently the best Praetors because of the Mantle.  In this low point list, I think Pyroclasts are also some potentially strong multitaskers (with meltabombs and their multi-mode flame projectors, they're strong anti-vehicle, anti-terminator, and anti-power armor), and they combo well with the Praetor.  If you get charged, you get plenty of wall-of-flame hits on overwatch with them.  They have good armor saves to keep them alive despite their low numbers, and the Praetor's melee ability can help protect them against terminators or tactical squads.  On top of which, they're a unit of 2+ save models that's scoring when you use the RoW.

 

That's all theoretical, of course.  You'd want to give it a few goes with playtesting (probably with proxies) to see if it works, or if it works in a way that you enjoy playing.  But it at least sounds good to me.

[Kor'Vesh]

Thanks Kitwulfen, I'm glad I haven't missed the start of your Plog, I'll keep my eye out for it.

 

Sorry - I was lazy when I wrote that I'd like a heresy era tank - I suppose I meant that I want a heresy era tank that I really like the look of and don't mind the cost! You are, of course, right about the Proteus. While I like the rules, I'm not convinced that I like its aesthetic, and I'd rather spend a bit more to get a Spartan if I went that way. I will get a Land raider, but I'll proably just use the plastic kit for that.

 

The difference between our two lists is interesting - I think you are identifying my best combination and ensuring I get the most out of it. My list is probably trying to have my cake and eat it, by bringing a good combo, but using a half-baked delivery method for it so that I can bring more fire power and threats to the table. I suspect your approach is correct, but the image of my original army list appeals to me more. Unfortunately I won't be able to get any games in for a while, but when real life settles down I'll test out both lists. For now I work on painting up my normal marines and get an order in for the pyroclasts!

 

Regardless I think I'll drop the rhino's combi weapon and the volkite serpenta from the original list to add melta-bombs and maybe artificer armour to a sarge. I'm guessing that is a better use of points.

 

Kor'Vesh