7th Edition: Hammer Unbound

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I mean about the frequent complaints I see in the General and News fora from Black Templar players, mostly focused on the fact that their codex was absorbed into Codex: Space Marines or grousing about the new fluff on BT attitude toward psykers. I've seen many threads in the general forum get highjacked by BT players feeling the need to yet again vent on these issues. It has become extremely wearisome. Although in fairness the Chaos players are also guilty of this, perhaps more so. But theirs is along the lines of "our codex sucks" and "we should have access to every Imperial supplement" so different from the BT and (now) GK grumbling.

 

But you know, I really shouldn't have complained myself about the amount of negativity in the GK forum right now, or about my annoyance at BT complaining in other forums, because I'm just going into the very behaviour I'm lamenting by doing so. So I apologise and I will strive not to mention it again.

[Andhil]

Don't worry about it. Nothing to apologize for, I was just curious, not calling you out or anything. (Everything you said is true though.)

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, if there are any such problems don't bring them into the IG barracks ;)

 

I wonder if we'll see a resurgence in Lascannons with the changes to the vehicle damage chart? It'd certainly make their price tag feel a bit less steep but perhaps still not for us at BS3. It's not like we're hurting for other ways to pop armour right?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Yessir!

 

Well not just lascannons but Vanquishers, especially with their price reduction, just got even better too. I think this is a good thing that the dedicated antitank stuff is the only stuff that can one-shot armour.

[march10k]

Yessir!

Well not just lascannons but Vanquishers, especially with their price reduction, just got even better too. I think this is a good thing that the dedicated antitank stuff is the only stuff that can one-shot armour.

. Pask in a vanquisher FTW?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

As with Lascannons, I think the premium you pay for Pask is more worthwhile under these rumoured new rules.

[march10k]

I just played him against nids last night...he seemed like a waste when I found out I wouldn't be facing any tanks, but he and his squadron mate harvested an easy three wounds per turn from TMCs, although that average was only reached by the mate pieplating a pair of carnies a few times...I think Pask himself scored two wounds every single turn, though, in spite of a 5+ save from time to time.  Well worth the points, especially since the vanquisher cannon isn't ordnance, and therefore the obligatory lascannon isn't snap-shooting...two S8+ shots that hit on 3+ with rerolls, then wound 35/36 of the time with AP3/2...I guess it's okay if no tanks show up, lol!

 

/edit/  Oh, by the way...exactly two bugs crossed the centerline...neither lived to tell the tale :D  Pieplates at distance, massed lasguns at close range!

[WarriorFish]

Makes missile rocket launchers less useful, not that they've been in vogue for Guard in a very long time. Vanquishers look good I agree, as long as you can mitigate the BS3 somehow. Pask gets even better, if you ever thought that was possible :P Good job on showing those overgrown bugs who's boss too :D

 

I'm looking forward to getting some games in with 7th, there's even a change to challenges - excess wounds from a challenge carry on to the squad. This is a fairly significant change and not one I'm entirely happy with. Challenges are already irritating but this just makes them more of a pain to deal with, I was hoping they'd be streamlined somehow so they didn't clog the combat phase up so much.

[Kierdale]

One thing that did come to mind, if 7th edition proves to be Psyker-heavy (it may be at least for the first few months as people play around with the new phase), is that an allied Ordo Hereticus Inquistor with psyocullum would be very useful indeed...

For only 50 points (80 if you make him a Psyker too. Cheeky.) your blob squad gets BS10 against psykers.

[WarriorFish]

Could be yeah, but it's a trick anyone can do and I prefer my Inquisitors fluff based :P

 

I'm thinking that we might end up calling this "-2nd Edition", here's a couple more things to note:

 

- snap shots are resolved at -2BS

- Ignores Cover is -2 to cover save

 

That's quite a change. Presumably template weapons like flamers still outright ignore cover, but other weapons become less potent for it. Perhaps for the best, as functionally it still means that for the most part it still does the same but it does mean that the 2+ cover tricks become stronger. Interesting times ahead, although the changes individually tend to be relatively small the overall shift in the game is looking to be quite notable.

[march10k]

Could be yeah, but it's a trick anyone can do and I prefer my Inquisitors fluff based

I'm thinking that we might end up calling this "-2nd Edition", here's a couple more things to note:

- snap shots are resolved at -2BS

- Ignores Cover is -2 to cover save

That's quite a change. Presumably template weapons like flamers still outright ignore cover, but other weapons become less potent for it. Perhaps for the best, as functionally it still means that for the most part it still does the same but it does mean that the 2+ cover tricks become stronger. Interesting times ahead, although the changes individually tend to be relatively small the overall shift in the game is looking to be quite notable.

Not liking either one of those. Sphezz Mureenz get to snap shoot on 5s? Shenanigans! Cover cheese can't be ignored, only reduced to 4++?? I mean, that's good for guardsmen cowering behind manning an ADL, and I won't complain about the forward sentries that just got cheaper retaining a 5+ in ruins when they get hit with "ignores cover" weapons...but I really don't like it. I don't know why you presume that templates will still eliminate cover entirely...if they do, then I'm okay with other cover-ignorers merely reducing it. This is probably intended to slightly reduce the effectiveness of markerlight cheese, but if it applies to templates, it's an overreaction. I'd even grudgingly accept a caveat that flame-based weapons that ignore cover ignore it entirely, that's mostly flamer-type weapons with basically no range, but it would also allow castelan missiles (napalm fired from a whirlwind) and hellhounds to keep their usefulness...and as rare as they are, it's obvious that they don't need a nerf! Given that the heavy flamer in C:IG got cheaper, I'm not hopeful, though....

[Raulmichile]

  Given that the heavy flamer in C:IG got cheaper, I'm not hopeful, though....

 

They got cheaper because they were insanely overcosted, to the point of nobody using them.  I don't think the -2 to cover save will also apply to template weapons but we have to wait.

[march10k]

I don't disagree that they were insanely overcosted, but they might be a smidge too cheap now, they're auto-include.  Maybe 12-15 points would have been ideal.  If the price on the S5 AP4 version is right, then the S4 AP5 version should be two points cheaper...

[WarriorFish]

We can't know until we see all the rules, but I'd hope that flamers don't get hit with the same stick. Some fancy weapon that ignores cover fair enough, but the whole point of template weapons is to get around cover shenanigans so it'll require a bit of a rethink if we lose that. We can always resort to drowning them in dice, not ever army has that luxury. Who knows, maybe 7th will be very kind to the Guard..?

[march10k]

Yeah, the cover ignoring nerf definitely benefits squishy shooty armies, except for tau, but the snap shot buff benefits BS4 armies...and bs5 characters...defensive plasma pistol fire that hits on 4+? Brutal. And psyocculum shenanigans? A heavy bolter devastator squad that hits a unit with a psycher in it on 2+ as it repositions! Or a master of ordnance with a psyocculum bearer in the squad scatters a max of 2" if targeting a psycher!

[WarriorFish]

Agreed, it will be very interesting to see what comes out of the early 7th days as people report back with what happens in their first games.

 

The change to snap firing in response to charges will make combat tougher for elite units - not as big a deal for hordes assaulting. It does make sense that a Space Marine is better at responding than an Ork but I hope this doesn't unseat assault any more. Consolidations might be good, but will count for little if you can't use them for being shot up so much on the way in.

[Kierdale]

With the new rules out (I'm still reading through my eRules), how do you all feel 7th affects us Guardsmen?

 

Manticore Storm Eagle rockets (and Deathstrike Missiles) being noted in the new codex as being unable to fire directly now seems clearer: in 7th you can only shoot directly within minimum range...ergo Storm Eagles cannot be fired at targets within 24" nor Deathstrikes at targets within 12"...while a Basilisk can target enemy within 36" so long as they're within sight.

As I don't get many big games in these days I don't think I'll bother with the Manticore I was going to buy!

 

The loss of Pinning for our snipers is a small but sad loss.

[WarriorFish]

Immer has a summary here, though I won't be able to check out the changes myself right away it seems like nothing has changed radically. For the most part it's carrying on as normal with some minor improvements. I will have to keep an eye out as we learn more :)

[cypherthefallenangel]

Ive been thinking of my new 1k turni list. This should piss my opponent's off.

Stormsword

Knight titan errant

Vets.

Hahaha dealing with 2 superheavys @ 1k. Priceless. . :)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Yes this really is a 6.5 vs a true 7th edition. Not much changed at all. Psychic phase was the biggest change. Minor tweaks otherwise.

[hendrik]

and the objectives,right?(as i didn't bother buying a new rulebook yet, since it might take a while before i play anyway, heck, i only played around 10 games in 6th edition at best.)

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

I hear you Hendrik. I didn't play a single game of 6th but have a tournament coming in July so got 7th now.

 

I've only skimmed the missions section. Yeah there are the new changing objectives but they seem to have old school missions too.