'Templar' Discussion [Open Spoilers] - All hail Balthamal

[Greyall]

These were a bit lost in the Weekender Leaks thread, so I though of bringing them to the light. As the title says, these were provided by Balthamal - may a million psykers be sacrificed for his eternity.

 

 

[spoilerS]

 

Part 1 - Sigismund has been called to fight an honour duel against a champion of the White Scars, revealed to be Jubal Khan. Khan gains something of an upper hand but eventually Sigismund lands 3 blows in the blink of an eye and leaves him hobbled (he breaks his arm and leaves serious damage on his gorget) at which point Khan admits he won't beat him, and he won't ever beat him - the backdrop to this is the contrast between the characters: Sigismund cold and focused, Khan wild but skilled.

 

Part 2 - Sigismund has a conversation with Alejos of the Dark Angels at the prospect of them being called to serve as
champions in an honour duel since Dorn and the Lion have a "disagreement" It's noted that several of the Primarchs seem to have
these little spats with Dorn because his nature grates them too much.Throughout the conversation Alejos pushes Sigismund into admitting that his first and only devotion is to his duty and he's slightly sad that's the case if they come to draw blades against each other.

 

Part 3 -Sigismund is fighting in the pits of the Eaters against Khârn. He beats Khârn fairly easily before they go at it a second time. Khârn puts forth a lot more aggression this time around and bloods Sigismund (headbutting him, since "it worked for the b******* Sevatar") before he get's his strike reversed and ends with Sigismund having his blade to his neck. Khârn acknowledges Sigismund's superiority in the pits yet also notes that there is a marked difference between pit fighting and a battlefield (take that everyone who argued the toss in the abby/siggy thread) and wonders what could push Sigismund further, namely how he would react if the pillars around which he has built his discipline and devotion to duty around were taken away. Khârn ends by saying if that were to happen he would hate to have to fight Sigismund, because he would genuinely be trying to kill him. There's no mention of how he thinks such a fight would end)

 

Part 4 - The action here is inter-cut throughout the other 3 but I'll include it en masse for consistency's sake. As per Dorn's order in the Crimson Fist to purge any remnants of traitors in the Sol system, the fists travel to kill Word Bearers guarding a tomb comet that's a monument to those who fought during unity ( the WBs were it's assigned guardians) an agent of the Sigilitte is sent to shadow the mission and she questions Sigismund if he's ever killed a fellow Astartes - he admits he hasn't. Faffnir Rann is present and is shown to be mighty handy in a fight, judging the banter between Rann and Sigismund, it appears Rann is actually older and may even have taught Sigismund at some point. They easily slaughter the first group of Word Bearers before finding the second lot who sacrifice
themselves to give birth to daemons who prove a lot more troublesome. Finally Sigismund faces off with the leader who has what I can only call a smoke-weapon - it continuously changes it's forms between swords/axes/spears/maces etc. The leader reveals that it was Sigismund's destiny to be killed at Phall before taunting him that Keeler lied to him about his fate, that he himself is a lie given how he essentially bottled going to his death at Phall and returned to Terra. He gets seriously wounded by the smoke-blade in the form of a mace (possibly the origins of the Black Mace given it's effect on him) before finally killing him entertainingly (turns out those power packs for power armour are a tad volatile).The Sigilite's agent then tells him that he's now a kinslayer but his oath of moment is complete. Sigismund's closing thought is of how his oath to kill traitors can never be complete and a possible hardening of his belief of the Eternal Crusade.

[Arthanor]

Nifty! Thanks for reporting those!

 

Now we just have to wait (patiently?) for the Imperial Fist kits from Forgeworld! Any rumor/hint of when that will happen?

 

And on that day, thousands of wallets shall cry in despair, emptied of all their substance under the horrified gaze of girlfriends the world over, as followers of Dorn and Sigismund gather their forces.

[Mantras]

Listened to it on the drive back from the weekender, it is very, very good. Sigismund is shown to be the total badass everyone says, and not just against a bunch of punks, but 3 of the big hitters from 30k. Spoke to ADB about Sigismund at the weekender and gotta say, I think everyone is going to love the direction they take him in.

[WGXH]

I'd like to hear of the portayal of Alajos, if possible. How different was he pre-flaying?

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

After reading this, I just had to buy it. 

 

 

I am now the owner of "Templar" by John French.

 

[Mantras]

They describe Alajos in quite cool terms, fleshing him out more in outlook rather than anything else.

[Greyall]

So the book really seems to be another step in Sigismund's path to deal with duty. Does it mention how the relationship between Siggy and Dorn is at?

 

I'm curious to see if and how this dilemma will affect Sigismund beyond what we saw in Crimson Fist.

[Marshal Rohr]

The book takes place before the Crimson Fist

[Balthamal]

As far as kits go, there might be a conversion kit rather than a unique package for the wardens but I'd say the Templars will have their own kit given the modelling opportunities there (which will no doubt become a thousand Emperors Champions or BT Marshals.

 

Edit - the book takes place during the events of the Crimson Fist. Dorn orders any forces of the traitors within the Solar system purged. Sigismund's confession takes place after the events in Templar

 

Now about those psykers...

[Greyall]

 

Now about those psykers...

 

 

What about them?

 

 

I stand corrected about the timeline, thought the big conversation had already taken place.

[Inquisitor Kravin]

Listened to it on the drive back from the weekender,

 

Me too.

 

You've missed what was for me the biggest spoiler, delivered by Laurie Goulding at the end of the seminar on audio dramas, to quote myself from the main Weekender thread:

 

 

Most bizarre bit of trivia from the weekend - Laurie Goulding mentioning that in audio drama "Templar" Sigismund is voiced by Tim Bentinck who plays David Archer in BBC Radio 4's long running soap "The Archers". I frequently listen to the 6.30 comedy slot on Radio 4 on my way home from work and if I'm running late then it runs over into the 7pm slot which is The Archers. Whilst by no means a follower of the show I am sufficiently acquainted that I drove home from the Weekender listening to Templar and trying to dissociate Dorn's most famous son from a man who laments the state of his pasture grass or worries about whether his dairy herd has TB.

 

 

DAMN YOU LAURIE GOULDING! Next year I'm going to hand out free t-shirts that declare "Tarvitz Lives" as my vengeance.

 

 

 

I thought it seemed a bit arrogant to create a thread just for my experiences rather than joining in with everyone else but as you have noted in the other thread things are getting lost so I think I will go ahead and create an article compiling my weekend experience which was fluff and author focused rather than model and game focused. In particular I was fortunate enough to be part of a lengthy small group chat with ADB with a lot of insight into his views on the Heresy in general and in particular on Master of Mankind. I had reservations about the concept of this book but the Weekender but this discussion obliterated my doubts like an Imperator Titan vaporising a grot and now I'm really looking forward to it. We even talked about the old Inquisition War books with Jaq Draco which involved a personal appearance by the big E.

[SCOTT_FRANCIS]

So the book really seems to be another step in Sigismund's path to deal with duty. Does it mention how the relationship between Siggy and Dorn is at?

 

I'm curious to see if and how this dilemma will affect Sigismund beyond what we saw in Crimson Fist.

 

Before you ask, yes I have been in a cave for a while.

 

Which "Book" are we talking about?

[ShadowMaster]

The White Scar was Jubal Khan who was mentioned by the Dark Angel Captain Alajos in the story "Savage Weapons" as one of the most skilled fighters among the Astartes, he was mentioned together with Sigismund, Abaddon and Sevatar.

[Karthak]

In particular I was fortunate enough to be part of a lengthy small group chat with ADB with a lot of insight into his views on the Heresy in general and in particular on Master of Mankind. I had reservations about the concept of this book but the Weekender but this discussion obliterated my doubts like an Imperator Titan vaporising a grot and now I'm really looking forward to it. We even talked about the old Inquisition War books with Jaq Draco which involved a personal appearance by the big E.

"Comes to attention like a meerkat." What did he say? Tell ussss.

[Scribe]

Sounds (audio, get it!) interesting.

[Phoebus]

I'm glad that the Inquisition Wars appearance of the Emperor came up.  Outdated or not, it was an interesting take on what the Emperor's mentality would be like after ten thousand years on the throne.

Random question:  does anyone else feel weird about Sigismund being known as a Templar even back then?  There are more than a few references in the series as to how terms with religious connotations are discouraged in the ultra-secular Imperium.  I'm surprised Sigismund didn't start off with a different title, perhaps switching to "Templar" some time after the Emperor's enthronement.

[Marshal Rohr]

The Templars guard the Temple of Oaths. It's where all the Imperial Fosts record their oaths of moment. It's sort of like a mosoleum.

[Balthamal]

It's pretty much the most sacred chamber aboard the Phalanx, nobody bar Dorn and the Templars were even allowed access. 

[blackoption]

It's pretty much the most sacred chamber aboard the Phalanx, nobody bar Dorn and the Templars were even allowed access. 

 

If I remember correctly, it is that Dorn, Sigismund and the templars are the only ones allowed to enter unbidded.  Other members of the legion can enter, but only at the permission of the templars. At least, that is how I read it.

[Phoebus]

I get that.  :)

 

My point is that, given the Imperium's stated and qualified aversion to terms, titles, etc., with religious connotations, I find the Imperial Fists' use of "temple", "templar", etc., to be somewhat out of place.

[SFH]

 

It's pretty much the most sacred chamber aboard the Phalanx, nobody bar Dorn and the Templars were even allowed access. 

 

If I remember correctly, it is that Dorn, Sigismund and the templars are the only ones allowed to enter unbidded.  Other members of the legion can enter, but only at the permission of the templars. At least, that is how I read it.

I believe that the Emperor was allowed unbidden access as well.

 

Anyway, the Templars also serve as the First Company of the Imperial Fists, and since Sigismund is the First Captain of the Imperial Fists, he would naturally be a Templar. Also, it was explicitly stated that the Temple of Oaths was not a religious temple, but a monument to the ideals of the Great Crusade. Maybe temple means something different in Inwiti than it does in Low Gothic?

[Phoebus]

Maybe it does.  Maybe it doesn't.  Either way, it's kind a stretch for  "demon", "faith", etc., to be frowned on, but "temple" to be okay - in the same language.

 

I'm not trying to make this a right or wrong discussion.  I was just curious if anyone else felt this way.  If not, no big deal!  :)

 

[Wade Garrett]

Bending the Imperial Truth a bit is hardly limited to Dorn's boys.

 

Russ calls people heretics when he gets his dander up, and then you've got Dark and Blood ANGELS running around walloping folks in the name of militant atheism.

[Phoebus]

I hear you when it comes to the Space Wolves and their "we're not really psykers or priests" Rune Priests.

 

Where the Blood Angels and Dark Angels are concerned.... I can only offer that while "templar" ostensibly always refers to a "temple" and "temple" ostensibly always relates to religion, "angel" meant "messenger" long before the Bible made it synonymous with "God's supernatural messenger".  As the Horus Heresy uses classic terminology often enough, the use of "angel" is thus not that jarring.  I understand that "angel" carries an additional connotation to the reader (and that this is intentional), but I'm still able to reconcile it with the characters using it in the classical sense.

[Marshal Rohr]

I need this.