ak1508 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Are they worth it? Nope. Worst unit in the list. Pretty much because of what you said - price vs. effectiveness. Sniper rifles are not amazing at actually removing characters. Veterans with Sniper are better in every way. And here I just spent some cash on bitz to convert some cool looking recon squads :D oh well, for big point games i might stick a few of them in just to be annoying :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 If you buy recon marines, Give them Combi-Weapons BAM seekers. Excessus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Hopefully we'll see them get a new rule that let's them mark targets, thus granting preferred enemy against it or such. I can see the trail of thought on them in an AL list though. Really, if you think they're cool use em, on paper they are the "worst" but they could still prove effective in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak1508 Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Hopefully we'll see them get a new rule that let's them mark targets, thus granting preferred enemy against it or such. I can see the trail of thought on them in an AL list though. Really, if you think they're cool use em, on paper they are the "worst" but they could still prove effective in game. Considering how much thought I put into modelling them, being heavily inspired by one of the guys who did this: http://warpstoneflux.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/completing-alpha-legion-sniper-or.html I simply cannot give up on them, now that i have almost all the bits for it :P and even though they are kinda hardly useful on paper, they're gonna add a lot of style to the army and just simply annoy the opponent's infantry and even better - maybe draw them in to give me time for my better units to advance and so on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 If you buy recon marines, Give them Combi-Weapons BAM seekers. Yeah, that's what I did. Works pretty well! :) ...now I'm just a bit disappointed that I gave them the wrong combi-weapons, haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddarz Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Here's to hoping that recon marines get price drop, better rules, a rite or more! They really could use it - I mean 5 extra pts for sniper rifles...really? In the mean time I've only one way to use them. 5 with free shotguns and 25pt meltabombs. Stick them in a stormeagle. Now that storm eagle can outflank or deepstrike and disgorge 5 melta bomb assaulters onto a spartan or similar next turn Not great but when it does work its amazing! Still crazy points though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirHudlebert Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Ok cool, thats what i thought, will stick with seekers/headhunters cheers guys :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodhrin Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 (edited) So I'm messing about with Alpha Legion lists at the moment, and from what I've seen of other people's forays into AL armies Banestrike round on Seekers seems to be pretty standard...I'm wondering why? I mean I get the potential utility of exchanging 24" Heavy 1 for 18" Rapid Fire, but you give up a lot to do that; Shred goes entirely, and you're reduced to pseudo-rending at only AP3 - do folk really find it a worthwhile tradeoff, or is it entirely situational and it just happens that the lists I've seen have all been written from the perspective of using the Seekers really aggressively only against PA-equipped enemies? Edited December 30, 2015 by Yodhrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 For units that have access to the Sniper USR or the Rending USR, Banestrike rounds are absolutely 100% not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 So I'm messing about with Alpha Legion lists at the moment, and from what I've seen of other people's forays into AL armies Banestrike round on Seekers seems to be pretty standard...I'm wondering why? I mean I get the potential utility of exchanging 24" Heavy 1 for 18" Rapid Fire, but you give up a lot to do that; Shred goes entirely, and you're reduced to pseudo-rending at only AP3 - do folk really find it a worthwhile tradeoff, or is it entirely situational and it just happens that the lists I've seen have all been written from the perspective of using the Seekers really aggressively only against PA-equipped enemies? I'm with slips, whose armies, lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddarz Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 Indeed, they give up too much for no good benefit. 18" is too close for a unit that doesn't want to get assaulted and AP3 on sixes is not much of a threat, especially with ubiquitous artificer armour on tanking sergeants Veterans get sniper so it's quite pointless Seekers with just bolters should be static and use scorpious heavy 1 - shred is well worth it. Seekers with combis will be using those and then will probably be dying. They can work on terminators though, double-tap and assault Maybe it if was Assault 2 it could work, and fix head-hunters at the same time. ak1508 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian of the Rage Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Hi all, Long time 40k but never 30k player here. Just got into reading about it and now getting to the list crafting stages. Lots of the lists I see plus the reduced costs of additional bodies to units indicate that fewer larger units is a better list set up than many smaller units. I will be playing Alpha Legion for many varied reasons and it seems that their default abilities are well suited to MSU with my '40k' eyes. Question Is there any way in small (circa 1k) or larger (circa 3k) games that people think that the MSU style lists can work? Many thanks in advance. Cheers, Edited January 2, 2016 by Guardian of the Rage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Asvaldir Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 You said it yourself, fewer large units is better than many small units. 30k is built for big units, MSU is really hard to pull off because you're paying more pts to split the same number of bodies into different units. In addition, many 30k units are just expensive at their base cost, which means in small games (which is really 2k and below in 30k), MSU is virtually impossible to run well. 3k sure you can do it, it's just not the best way to run 30k armies. Not sure why you think alpha legion would be good MSU, especially if you run their rite of war you really can't afford to run MSU because you're stuck with a 3 troop tax. The Legion that really does benefit from MSU is ultramarines, since you can "mark" a target with one unit then get rerolls for other units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjasuperspy Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Looks like Headhunters at the Birthday thing in this pic from Remi at Salaise Figurine (http://salaisefigurine.blogspot.com/2016/01/review-open-day-games-forge-world-le.html). And it looks like they've got Combi-bolters. So there's that. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WkanafdJiLg/VofCCDePtJI/AAAAAAAAOBk/GIM9lRRvf8s/s1600/eVwZEZ.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Combi bolter is just a twin linked bolter... Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Yep. They get Combi-Bolters. With Preferred Enemy. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Dang.... Oh well - nice models at least. Combi-bolters do look pretty rad in that configuration - wouldn't mind putting them on terminators. They'd suit Tartaros :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Word is that the updated red books will not be seeing points changes (as previously rumored) but loads of little rules tweaks. So maybe the Headhunters will be included in that, subbing PE for a rule that makes sense paired with the combi-bolters? We can hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I mean, those combi-bolters are literally the smallest step away from their Combi-Weapons. So the most likely chance would be they have combi-bolters as standard now and can upgrade to combi-weapons. We'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 I wouldn't mind that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 It would be the easiest to explain with the kit; kinda like how the Volkite Culverin for the Contemptor came out and we were like "What???? ITS TWIN-LINKED?!?!?!?!?!" Especially with the news that the LA:ICL Units, while the book will have the most changes, units individually will be getting small changes at most usually rules changes to justify their points cost instead of changes to them though this may/maynot apply to a few other units. Again, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak1508 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 If the rules for them arent gonna be great its at least worth getting the models, so that I can kitbash them and make nice command squad models out of them! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Indeed, they give up too much for no good benefit. 18" is too close for a unit that doesn't want to get assaulted and AP3 on sixes is not much of a threat, especially with ubiquitous artificer armour on tanking sergeants Veterans get sniper so it's quite pointless Seekers with just bolters should be static and use scorpious heavy 1 - shred is well worth it. Seekers with combis will be using those and then will probably be dying. They can work on terminators though, double-tap and assault Maybe it if was Assault 2 it could work, and fix head-hunters at the same time. This is the other thing I wouldn't mind, and would cement Headhunters as a primary melee unit that also puts some shots into the opponent first. If the "combi-bolters" were really assault 2 banestrike rounds, that would be fine. Double tap, grenade HoW, then 2 S3 AP3 attacks per guy. Not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) 1000 points doesn't really work at all for the Legions. Mechanicum can build something ridiculous at that level, but Astartes have too high a troop tax. Half of your army will be scoring chaff. Coils in particular is kind of already set up to be MSU, since you need three troop choices that have to fit in transports. Edited January 2, 2016 by Terminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 If they got Furious Charge and Chosen Warriors, then something could be said. PE or not, WS4 S3 is just bad, and their only real purpose i've found is throwing PE on a Cc character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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