[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Terminus]

Been saying this for a long time. AL and RG breachers are sweet. I recommend Vigilators to other legions because they cannot infiltrate, but infiltrate at 18" is subject to the vagaries of scatter, which is where Scout comes in handy.

 

Bear in mind the unit will likely be charged first turn if you are facing a Spartan or raider rush. An apothecary is most useful for an augury scanner giving the grav guns interceptor. Drop pods get gibbed by them, and leave 4 dangerous terrain pieces which all cause individual tests, so a unit of 10 takes 40 tests, thats 6-7 failures, and 2-3 dead.

Only the models entering the templates have to take a test. Since glanced vehicles aren't removed, they bail out around it, so they shouldn't be anywhere near the templates initially, and they would have to be really dumb to push all 10 guys through each template.

 

The infiltrating 400 point breacher squad just seems like very niche if you're only dealing with Spartan rush. This unit will do nothing but die against Mechanicum since they have no real targets except maybe a <150 point triaros or krios. And god forbid you are playing an opponent light on transports and mostly lugging long-range support vehicles like Typhons, they just park outside and blow them up. Or no vehicles for you to shoot, so now you got a 400 point bolter squad.

Edited January 7, 2016 by Terminus

[Charlo]

Pondering this at the moment.

 

Infiltrate list also hoping to take advantage of Dynats abilities. Aiming to overwhelm from turn one with Leviathan and lots of firepower from the Heavy Culverin Squad.

 

Apoths go where they are needed and the plasma squad deep strikes with Dynat (for +1BS) and the headhunters are there to hunt power armour and generally make a mess with power daggers, HoW and rerolling sweep.

 

Moritat is for funsies, no Drakaina due to the FAQ though.

 

Breachers are an Anvil and area denial tool with Grav Guns. Could swap Moritat for a vigilator to give them scout if needed I suppose.

 

AV14 could be a problem on the first turn, but the plan would be to just hurt whatever else I can.

 

Edit: took out an apothecary and changed vets for Headhunters. More flavour and achieve what I wanted with a cooler, more versatile squad.

 

+++ Alphas (2500pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2500pts) ++

 

+ HQ (350pts) +

 

Armillus Dynat (200pts)

 

Legion Centurion (150pts) [Artificer Armour, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Volkite Serpenta, Volkite Serpenta]

····Consul [Moritat]

 

+ Troops (950pts) +

 

Legion Breacher Siege Squad (360pts) [3x Graviton Gun, 14x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]

····Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (265pts) [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Take an additional Chainsword or Combat Blade]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Support Squad (325pts) [9x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Guns]

 

+ Elites (120pts) +

 

Apothecarion Detachment (120pts)

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]

····Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner]

 

+ Fast Attack (340pts) +

 

Headhunter Kill Teams (340pts) [9x Headhunter, Heavy Bolter with Suspensor Web and Banestrike ammunition]

····Headhunter Prime [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Fist]

 

+ Heavy Support (740pts) +

 

Legion Heavy Support Squad (335pts) [9x Legion Space Marines, Volkite Culverin]

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (405pts)

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [XX: Alpha Legion]

 

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

Edited January 11, 2016 by Charlo

[Terminus]

"Cooler" is subjective, since you can use the same models to represent veterans and headhunters.

 

In no way are headhunters better or more flexible. They have middling shooting and middling melee, they do nothing well.

[Charlo]

Decided that last list just wasn't me. I was trying to make a list for Dynat that just doesn't fit. Instead of gone for something more unorthodox in the style of the XXth. It's compact but has a fair bit of punch.

 

Larnean + Forgelord + Big Alph in the Khyribdis for first turn burning and safety, for a hopeful turn two charge. Forgelord handles challenges where appropriate due to 3++ and chainfist.

 

Leviathan also comes down turn one and murders something in cover with its grav and Phosphex if necessary, with a bit of Choom too for good measure. Drill is to help with anti AV.

 

Breachers infiltrate into cover/ objectives, threaten armour with Grav Guns otherwise cause mayhem.

 

Tacs can either outflank or infiltrate, hopefully get off a preferred enemy FotL at some point.

 

Turn 2 sees the arrival of the support squad to smoke something with 10-15 preferred enemy plasma shots. Larneans disembark and start to have fun. Khyribdis starts to fly around heat blasting and firing missiles at things to pin if lucky.

 

Alternative view is a move one or two support Marines into breachers to get the extra 5 and another grav gun.

 

Or I could always jig a bit more into a coils list to guarantee first turn and take something deadlier in the big pod, but troops lost bite and become just Tacs to save points.

 

What do we recon?

 

+++ Alpharius (2497pts) +++

 

++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (2497pts) ++

 

+ HQ (167pts) +

 

Legion Centurion (167pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Chainfist, Cyber-familiar, Power Dagger, Rad Grenades, Volkite Charger]

····Consul [Forge Lord]

 

+ Troops (760pts) +

 

Legion Breacher Siege Squad (295pts) [2x Graviton Gun, 9x Legion Breacher Siege Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]

····Legion Breacher Siege Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Squad (220pts) [Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla]

····Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon]

 

Legion Tactical Support Squad (245pts) [6x Legion Space Marines, Plasma Guns]

····Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour]

 

+ Elites (390pts) +

 

Lernaen Terminator Squad (390pts) [2x Chainfist, 7x Lernean Terminator]

····Harrower [Chainfist, Power Dagger, Venom Sphere Harness]

 

+ Fast Attack (100pts) +

 

Anvillus Pattern Dreadclaw Drop Pod (100pts)

 

+ Heavy Support (665pts) +

 

Legion Kharybdis Assault Claw (260pts)

 

Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon (405pts)

····Leviathan Siege Dreadnought [Armoured Ceramite, Grav-flux Bombard, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Leviathan Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver]

 

+ Legion +

 

Legion Astartes [XX: Alpha Legion]

 

+ Lord of War (415pts) +

 

Alpharius (415pts)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Do you houserule Alpharius gets to join the Terminators because infiltrate, (either generic or global) or are you setting him in the squad?

 

I like it. Of all the deliveries, the Kharybdis is my favourite.

[Charlo]

He'll be using his rule to hide in there. Then top of turn two he replaces one inside the Kharybdis before the disembark. Cigar in hand like "surprise loyalists/traitors (as appropriate)".

 

Glad you like it though. Any improvements you can see, and do you think more breachers or plasma guns?

[Terminus]

I would try to just houserule it, because honestly that interaction is so dumb. You are not joining them as infiltrators, and they aren't infiltrating, but the terrible wording prevents him from joining his own Legion's best. He's still good, but 455 points, man.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Tbh, that's a level of finicking that I can't comment on depending on armies local to you. Assuming you are using them as a mop up squad from turn 3 onwards i can see them being quite useful once the ultradamaging units are gone.

 

I personally wouldn't use a Primarch until 3k because of the fragility of forces with one (you are a 2k force with a Primarch, rather than a 2k force with a Primarch and 5-600pts of stuff to make up), and would consider dropping Lernaeans to Tartaros Terms. Preferred Enemy making up for WS5 somewhat. I wouldn't bother with Volkites, instead take CombiPlasma because Sweep and Plasma offset.

[Charlo]

Tbh, that's a level of finicking that I can't comment on depending on armies local to you. Assuming you are using them as a mop up squad from turn 3 onwards i can see them being quite useful once the ultradamaging units are gone.

 

I personally wouldn't use a Primarch until 3k because of the fragility of forces with one (you are a 2k force with a Primarch, rather than a 2k force with a Primarch and 5-600pts of stuff to make up), and would consider dropping Lernaeans to Tartaros Terms. Preferred Enemy making up for WS5 somewhat. I wouldn't bother with Volkites, instead take CombiPlasma because Sweep and Plasma offset.

 

Fair enough.

 

My problem is really I don't have a meta yet - I'm going to start building some stuff and find one soon enough (once book 6 is out and I can fully decide on a legion).

 

The way I see the Heresy is, if you aren't using legion specific stuff it seldom feels like playing the legion to an extent - hence the Larneans and Alpharius. I have thought about Tartaros - especially with Dyant and his bonuses to sweep. Infiltrate, combi stuff, then run and charge next turn (or pod in). Noice.

 

The WS5 and Volkites is what's making me take them too - plus stubborn (although they'll be with Alpharius so...)

 

Other plan is I can always Sneakily put big A (or O....?) into one of the infantry squads to give me effectively a second combat unit, as with that Spear he can run through most anything.

 

Taking things a bit more general - how do people find the Kharybdis and to a lesser extent the Dreadclaw? Do they work out post cargo-drop?

[Terminus]

Actually, this interaction has been boggling my mind all day, so I looked up the rules under discussion.

 

 

 

An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your opponent of which unit it has joined.

 

A character can join a unit in one of two ways.

A.) Be in unit coherency during deployment.

B.) Be held back in reserve with a unit.

 

Now let's look at the Infiltrate and Independent Characters rule.

 

 

 

An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.

 

Seems like only option A is invalidated.  If you go via option B, you never deploy these units, so the interaction of not being able to join infiltrators during deployment never happens.

 

I don't think you need a house rule, and I don't think you need to sacrifice a terminator.  And for what it's worth, I'm riding on a wave of validation this week since I was right about allied Rites of War (Hesh was wrong, neener neener :P) and I was right about relics (almost everyone was wrong, nana nana doodoo! :D).

[Charlo]

For context... Is it that Alpharius can't join infiltrators straight up as he doesn't have it?

[Terminus]

Right, Alpharius does not have the Legiones Astartes rule, so he does not get Infiltrate even if you pick that for your mutable tactic. And if you do, any unit with Infiltrate deploying as infiltrators cannot be joined by him or any other independent characters without Infiltrate.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Being held in Reserve, while not counting as deploying, is part of the Deployment rules, therefor, part of deployment; you cannot attach a character to a unit in reserve if either has the Infiltrate special rule (RAW)

[Hesh Kadesh]

Put it this way, the unit is combined like any other unit during deployment, and set aside to come in as reserves. Skimask has it.

[Terminus]

Anyone given any thought to the Deathshroud terminators as a reward of treason? You can take 4, so you can stick them, a praetor, and an apothecary in a dreadclaw. They all get chem flamers, power axes with sweep and melta-bombs. Only 5++ but can sweep. Seems pretty decent.

[Caillum]

Yeah, another unit that got better with Tartaros changes. If the power scythes change as they have been rumoured to, then they'll be worth a look.

[1ncarnadine]

Even better, you don't suffer the DG Intractable trait that normally makes it harder for the Death Shroud to sweep.

[Charlo]

Aye they aren't bad, only problem is powerfists. They double them out. Bit the proposed -1I instead of unwieldy for scythes would clear most of that up nicely.

 

Are scythes specialist? If so, hooray for more power dagger shenanigans

[1ncarnadine]

Aye they aren't bad, only problem is powerfists. They double them out. Bit the proposed -1I instead of unwieldy for scythes would clear most of that up nicely.

 

Are scythes specialist? If so, hooray for more power dagger shenanigans

 

Two-handed, unfortunately. They're intended to utilize Sweep Attack for extra attacks I guess.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Yay for two attacks base.

 

Changes needed stille; Rampage, autohit sweep, or ability to generate additional attacks based on enemies engaged.

 

With a 40mm base, you are unlikely, even when charged to be in B2B by more than 6 enemies at once. If it had a 2" range, though? Yes please.

[Vashones]

Great thread guys, it has given me lots of ideas for an Alpha Legion army!

 

Rules/tactical questions for you. I'm working on my first Alpha Legion list and I want to run Dynat with the Orbital Assault ROW. I'm going to include a unit of terminators to deepstrike in. My original list has Dynat with a command squad in a drop pod. But I was wondering if I can attach Dynat to the squad of terminators to deep strike with? Either by attaching himself to the unit before deployment, or using his warlord trait to deepstrike himself in with the unit. I admit, the order of operations in all this makes my head hurt, so what is RAW?

[Hesh Kadesh]

As per the wording and the way that the rules order of operations occurs, no.

 

Warlord Traits are chosen before deployment, and immediately applied, meaning that at the time of choosing the warlord traits, you choose an infantry unit to gain Deep Strike. When it comes to deployment, you elect to put units into Reserve or on the table, and of those in reserve, if you want them to Deep Strike, and go into DS Reserve, all models in the unit must have Deep Strike.

 

Some argue that because it allows infantry unit to DS, and if you are an attached character to be considered part of the unit, then that allows you to (including myself, initially - I tried to use that to Deep Strike Praevian's with Monstrous Creatures before), but the problem if that you cannot actually be attached  to the unit when deploying it in Deep Strike Reserve as he doesn't have the DS rule yet. Other people also quote that general rules affecting a unit do not carry over to affect an attached IC unless mentioned, although that argument is neither necessary, and also in direct conflict with a statement.

 

Without getting too on top of my usual soap box, the rules are disfunctional, and FW have apparently admitted as much elsewhere within the mess of rules that they've written for the Alpha Legion (regarding mutable tactics and Coils of the Hydra), so I see no reason why not. It would be better if it was worded as "Dynat and any single other unit consisting only of Infantry models gains the Deep Strike special rule", it would be completely clear. But it's not, because FW.

 

Have a word with tourny organiser for an "official" ruling, and get an answer signed off and written down, if that's you're goal to prevent whinging (sounds extreme, but it depends on your hobby scene), or just have a word with your opponent before the game. I'd suggest having a second list that doesn't rely on that tactic, or just build a list that doesn't rely on it either way to be "safe". It's rarely worth the aggro during a game if someone picks up on it.

 

For the record as well, many people use the term "RAW" and "RAI"; I personally hate them. The RAW is disfunctional, and unclear even in the base game (does infantry include Jump Infantry? If yes, does that mean that Jump Infantry RG gain Infiltrate too? If not, then does this mean that Jump Infantry don't have to roll 6's to attack Warlord Titans? These are two dichotomous examples as a result of this), and RAI; erm, yeah. These guys can't even create rules for their own game which make sense, and don't stand up to the most basic of scrutiny - as you say, you're a newcomer to it and already scratching your head, and I'm still doing it after nearly 4 years of playing 30K games. I'm fairly sure that sniffing a mixture of resin dust and superglue fumes as a career/livelihood has affected their judgement in some manner, and as such, RAI is completely unclear unless we have Alan Bligh come on to the forums (and we're fairly confident he'll never do that, or else he will literally have me PMing him some new rules disfunction every 20 minutes) and state "Here's what I intended when I wrote the rules, please help me".

 

So, what I'm trying to get the forum to come to is to look at the rules in a more RACSD manner; RACSD standing for Rules as Common Sense Dictates. Now, this is fairly nebulous, and can be open to abuse by what one person claims is common sense to them, but that falls more under the "Don't be a dick" rule that everyone should follow, and it wouldn't matter if people played RAW or Common Sense (and as seen, RAW and Common sense are not on speaking terms), but in the instances of the above, it is likely to reference him joining a unit that's going to be Teleporting into battle, and as we've seen several ways of Teleporting anyway without needing Terminator Armour, it should be completely fine.

[Caillum]

^ This. Often you just need to chat about it beforehand, but once you know your meta, you'll know where you stand with most of these rulings.

 

If using a Deep Striking Terminator Squad, consider loading them up with combi-plasmas or Banestrike ammo. They will have to stand around for a turn, so having some improved firepower is a good idea. Cataphractii is also recommended to survive the turn too.

 

Alternatively, you could take Dynat, Alpharius and a 3-man Tartaros Terminator Command Squad in a Dreadclaw... Being able to Sweeping Advance, with Dynat's boost, is pretty good! Hugely expensive unit though.

[Vashones]

Thanks for the extremely detailed response! I will stick to a command squad or a Tartaros squad (I did not know you could take less than three of them!).

 

And yes, the terminator squad would have Banestrike ammo and be decked out in Cataphracti armor.

 

Its a shame that Dynat's warlord trait is wasted when using the Orbital Assault ROW. There does not seem to be anyway you can get around that. I mean, I'd take the "re roll the scatter dice" part of the trait and use that with the terminator squad, but that also seems up for debate.

 

I don't like to use the term RAW either, because as you said, the rules really break down in many areas of the game and we all know it and live with it. I suppose a better way to say is a strict conservative view of the rules. I don't want to build a list that would be questioned by anyone and would rather play it safe. We play by ITC in my area, so I will have to scour the FAQs to see if there is an answer in there.

[Charlo]

Dynats trait isnt fully wasted I think... You could take a unit that can't normally deep strike, although perhaps not if you take it as applying after forces are comprised... Hmm