[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Lord Asvaldir]

The wording for recon company is the same as the wording for terror assault I believe. Terror assault makes terror squads compulsory troops, meaning you MUST use terror squads as your mandatory troop choices. Then you have to take an extra troop choice, and because terror squads are your compulsory troop choice, you must take three terror squads. 

 

So you're stuck with taking 3 recon squads, which is not ideal unfortunately. I think they are a good unit for carrying melta bombs, but that's really about it, and 3 units sounds rather excessive. I'm just not sure gaining shrouding for all legion astartes units first turn is worth a tax of 3 recon squads. 

[Slips]

Im not all that surprised seeing as its a Recon Company.

 

So having to take more than a Single Recon Squad, as distasteful as it is to some, kinda makes sense :p

 

That Said, with AL Rules, having Recons in Scout Armor w/ Melta Bombs (Thus gaining Scout, Infiltrate and MtC, iirc), frees up the Mutable Tactic to being something else; say, Tank Hunters.

 

With Cameleolines and infiltrating into ruins, cover, you can have a pretty good save barring Ap4+, Ignores Cover weapons. And with Tank Hunting Melta Bombs so potentially close to your opponents Tanks, can make for some pretty large Distraction Carnifexes.

 

If Dynat is around, they also get +1 to vehicle damage table from his WL trait which means Melta Bombs with +3 to the chart.

 

Take the New-And-Slightly-Improved Saboteur if you have the points spare for a free Pen hit and you can cause some pretty severe Vehicular Mayhem.

 

It wont be the most powerful list/army but it changes up the playstyle a bit.

 

...also with Dedicates Storm Eagles, you can potentially get Flyers in your Troops Slots without having to use Angels Wrath if you're so inclined despite Storm Eagles not being all that great.

[1ncarnadine]

The wording for recon company is the same as the wording for terror assault I believe. Terror assault makes terror squads compulsory troops, meaning you MUST use terror squads as your mandatory troop choices. Then you have to take an extra troop choice, and because terror squads are your compulsory troop choice, you must take three terror squads. 

 

So you're stuck with taking 3 recon squads, which is not ideal unfortunately. I think they are a good unit for carrying melta bombs, but that's really about it, and 3 units sounds rather excessive. I'm just not sure gaining shrouding for all legion astartes units first turn is worth a tax of 3 recon squads. 

 

compare:  "Legion Recon Squads are compulsory Troops choices in the Primary Detachment." 

and: "The force's Primary Detachment must include an additional compulsory Troops choice, which must be filled by a Legion Recon Squad."

to: "Night Lords Terror Squads must be taken as the Compulsory Troops choices for a force using this Rite of War, and may be taken as additional Troops choices if desired."

and: "Detachments using this Rite of War must take an additional Compulsory Troops choice in addition to that usually required on their Force Organisation chart."

 

There's actually no precedence I can find of a rite stating it the way the Recon Company rite does. They always use "may" or "must" be taken in the Effects section. I could easily have missed something though, I only skimmed around. 

 

But yeah if you're saddled with 3 recon squads... that's 375 points minimum for 15 power armored bolter models. Yuck.

[Galron]

If its only one squad then sweet, my non-row army just became a RoW army with benefits without changing a thing. But three squads of them kinda suck. I think even FW can understand peoples reluctance to take them. But I guess someone with the book would have to answer it. Someone on Dakka has it.

[Galron]

OK the dakka guy posted the page for me, my reading of it has that last extra slot has to be filled by a recon squad, the rest can be as normal with the addition that recon squads are now compulsory as well.

[Lord Asvaldir]

 

The wording for recon company is the same as the wording for terror assault I believe. Terror assault makes terror squads compulsory troops, meaning you MUST use terror squads as your mandatory troop choices. Then you have to take an extra troop choice, and because terror squads are your compulsory troop choice, you must take three terror squads. 

 

So you're stuck with taking 3 recon squads, which is not ideal unfortunately. I think they are a good unit for carrying melta bombs, but that's really about it, and 3 units sounds rather excessive. I'm just not sure gaining shrouding for all legion astartes units first turn is worth a tax of 3 recon squads. 

 

compare:  "Legion Recon Squads are compulsory Troops choices in the Primary Detachment." 

and: "The force's Primary Detachment must include an additional compulsory Troops choice, which must be filled by a Legion Recon Squad."

to: "Night Lords Terror Squads must be taken as the Compulsory Troops choices for a force using this Rite of War, and may be taken as additional Troops choices if desired."

and: "Detachments using this Rite of War must take an additional Compulsory Troops choice in addition to that usually required on their Force Organisation chart."

 

There's actually no precedence I can find of a rite stating it the way the Recon Company rite does. They always use "may" or "must" be taken in the Effects section. I could easily have missed something though, I only skimmed around. 

 

But yeah if you're saddled with 3 recon squads... that's 375 points minimum for 15 power armored bolter models. Yuck.

 

 

I mean I haven't read the text of recon company, I was simply assuming it was a similar deal to terror assault. 

 

I think not using infiltrate for your mutable tactic in a recon company list kinda ruins the point of taking recon company. You want that essentially army wide shrouded first turn for all legions astartes units, if you don't take infiltrate you lose out on all that shrouding. Of course you could take Skorr, grab the infiltrate warlord trait and then you're set to pick a different trait. 

[Balthamal]

I'm getting my copy of Retribution tomorrow but if it is what I'm assuming it is, when it says Recon squads are compulsory troop choices it means you take them as the compulsory troop choices. There's no wriggle room there. If they say you have to take more compulsory troops choices then you take more recon squads, pretty cut and dried

[Charlo]

Im not all that surprised seeing as its a Recon Company.

 

So having to take more than a Single Recon Squad, as distasteful as it is to some, kinda makes sense :p

 

That Said, with AL Rules, having Recons in Scout Armor w/ Melta Bombs (Thus gaining Scout, Infiltrate and MtC, iirc), frees up the Mutable Tactic to being something else; say, Tank Hunters.

 

With Cameleolines and infiltrating into ruins, cover, you can have a pretty good save barring Ap4+, Ignores Cover weapons. And with Tank Hunting Melta Bombs so potentially close to your opponents Tanks, can make for some pretty large Distraction Carnifexes.

 

If Dynat is around, they also get +1 to vehicle damage table from his WL trait which means Melta Bombs with +3 to the chart.

 

Take the New-And-Slightly-Improved Saboteur if you have the points spare for a free Pen hit and you can cause some pretty severe Vehicular Mayhem.

 

It wont be the most powerful list/army but it changes up the playstyle a bit.

 

...also with Dedicates Storm Eagles, you can potentially get Flyers in your Troops Slots without having to use Angels Wrath if you're so inclined despite Storm Eagles not being all that great.

That is deliciously AL.

[Galron]

I read it. Only the third choice has to be a recon squad but you do have the option of including recon squads as compulsory troops.

[Terminus]

I read it. Only the third choice has to be a recon squad but you do have the option of including recon squads as compulsory troops.

Then you read what you wanted to read. The words are very clear, "Recon squads are compulsory troops". Not "lose the Support rule", but "are compulsory".

 

Anyway, it's probably very likely that FW intended for only one unit to be a recon squad, but they are stupid and don't know things. Like for example that drop pods are immobile.

[1ncarnadine]

 

I read it. Only the third choice has to be a recon squad but you do have the option of including recon squads as compulsory troops.

Then you read what you wanted to read. The words are very clear, "Recon squads are compulsory troops". Not "lose the Support rule", but "are compulsory".

 

Anyway, it's probably very likely that FW intended for only one unit to be a recon squad, but they are stupid and don't know things. Like for example that drop pods are immobile.

 

 

I'm still shaking my head at that one. It calls into question the other 4-5 rites in the new book that also restrict Immobile units.

 

Like, idk, Drop Assault Vanguard? Or the aggressive World Eaters rite that involves getting in the enemy deploy zone? Oh, Forge World...

[Terminus]

Drop Assault Vanguard would get more attention from me if it could take drop pods so it can... er.. drop assault... hmm.  I wouldn't mind taking a single unit of Emperor's Children assault marines and dropping them right next to their heavy support, who then have to choose between shooting at leviathans or the kharybdis with Fulgrim, or moving to get outside of 12" so they can shoot at the assault marines.

[Ibnyhwh]

Sorry for going off topic, but I am wondering which book to purchase of the Horus Heresy series of rules, pertaining to the Alpha Legion. This will be my first big book purchase and I'm not sure if buying the third book or most recent 6th book is the best course of action. Maybe I'm wrong on both accounts. Greatly appreciate a bit of advice on this. Thank you

[Charlo]

Drop assault is unfortunately named really. The fluff for it is mass assault squads coming down from low flying transports, not drop pods. That's what Orbital assault is for I suppose.

[Caillum]

Sorry for going off topic, but I am wondering which book to purchase of the Horus Heresy series of rules, pertaining to the Alpha Legion.

The "Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Legions" book (one of the Red Books) is due to drop in the next month or so. It will have Legion-specific rules for the 13 fully-released Legions, including Alpha Legion. The old version is called "Legiones Astartes: Isstvan Campaign Legions", so don't get that from FW unless you want it invalidated very quickly. :)

 

The "Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List" (the other Red Book) is the core rules for playing the Legions. It is no longer available from FW, so finding it elsewhere (like on eBay) is the only option. It is also getting updated, but not for 6 months or so.

 

Also, "Book 3: Extermination" (the 3rd Black Book) has some background on the Alpha Legion, along with the original (outdated) rules. If you can afford them, the Black Books are incredible though!

[Galron]

It says recon squads are compulsory yes but it doesn't say the other normal compulsory troops are not anymore. In the advantages it adds recons to the compulsory troop list. In the requirements section it says you must take a third compulsory slot which must be a recon squad. Therefore 2 tac squads and a recon squad can comprise the required three compulsory troops or if you wish for some reason you can use all three slots for recon squads, or two recon and an assault squad, etc etc as long as you have the one squad at a minimum.

[Terminus]

That was my initial question too, but nowhere are tacticals/assault/breachers stated to be compulsory troops, they just don't have the support rule that allows them to be picked as such. In previous examples, FW specified that whatever unit either "loses the support rule" and/or "MAY be taken as compulsory troops". This rite introduces a very brief and ambiguous new variation. You won't win this argument on a purely RAW basis, but I don't think anyone with a heart would force someone to run 3 units of Recons.

 

Regarding rules, I would say Book 4 is a good buy. It contains a lot of new scenarios and gameplay types and is in general a great campaign book. The rules for Auxilia and Knights is coming in another red book (probably after the AoD Legions and before the Legion core), though, so you could skip it.

 

Everyone needs book 6.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Terminus

[Terminus]

Drop assault is unfortunately named really. The fluff for it is mass assault squads coming down from low flying transports, not drop pods. That's what Orbital assault is for I suppose.

That's how assault marines always deploy. Skyhammer Annihilation combines pods and assault marines, for example, and the fluff still has the marines deploying out of stormbirds and whatnot.

[Hesh Kadesh]

It says recon squads are compulsory yes but it doesn't say the other normal compulsory troops are not anymore. In the advantages it adds recons to the compulsory troop list. In the requirements section it says you must take a third compulsory slot which must be a recon squad. Therefore 2 tac squads and a recon squad can comprise the required three compulsory troops or if you wish for some reason you can use all three slots for recon squads, or two recon and an assault squad, etc etc as long as you have the one squad at a minimum.

Tactical Squads are not Compulsory units, but they can fulfil a compulsory troops choice.

 

Recon Squads are normally a support unit, which normally means that they cannot fill that slot.

 

With the rite of war, they aren't just made available for a Compulsory troops slot, they ARE actually made Compulsory.

[Charlo]

Aye, they certainly are compulsory. Your three basic units have to be recon squads. Reading the book it makes perfect sense too.

[Terminus]

Of course, even while being unambiguous they manage to be confusing. Why specify that the third unit must be a recon squad if they are all compulsory? As always, consult with your opponent or event organizer.

[Hesh Kadesh]

I'm with Terminus. I just think that potato meant to write 'Lose the support unit', personally. Because unless a Recon Squad takes a 50pt Drop, it isn't useable. I laughed a while ago about people contemplating spending 50pts just for EW (a 25pt rule in my estimation), and here, FW are asking people to shell out the same for 5 Bolter Armed Models, who at best can pick up Meltabombs or Sniper Rifles.

 

If they had access to.Cognis Signums, that at least would give them a shout, or a Super Nuncio Vox, allowing them to improve their Deep Strike accuracy aura/give unit move through cover, or lase targets to reduce cover like tau markerlights, or have AP4 astartes Sniper Rifles, or even Special Issue Grenade Ammunition like Tempest Grenades and Stasis Grenades (everyone knows why I want Tempest Nades). They would be vaguely useable. Give them Combi Grenade Launchers (+7 ea), and access to Grenades from Militia and Auxilia (+5 ea), abd you have a unit whichcan infiltrate, scout and maybe sneak a shot of 5 tempest Grenades, or LoS obscuring Smoke Grenades in front of an enemy unit.

 

But they don't. They are utter garbage XD. They are Bolter Marines. Their one use? Meltabombs, although Vets can do it, they lose acute senses.

[Galron]

"Recon Squads are compulsory troops choices in the primary detachment" - doesn't say they are the only compulsory choice or that the others are no longer compulsory choices.

 

Limitations

"The Forces primary detachment must include an additional compulsory Troop choice, which must be filled by a Recon Squad."- Which not only says your third choice must be a recon squad, it implies you have a choice on the other two as only the third one is required to be a recon squad. Other RoWs are very specific as to which unit must fill which slot. If all the slots had to be Recon Squads it would say so like it does that only Terror Squads are compulsory troops in the Terror Assualt RoW.

[Charlo]

That's just it, the others never were "compulsory troops choices".

 

Tacticals, assault squads and breachers could be used to fill compulsory, purely because the support squad rules stop you from doing it with Special weapons and recon squads.

 

Using this rite gives you three compulsory troops choices, and they are Recon Squads.

 

It's not the clearest written rule (hence our differing conclusions) but that makes the most sense considering the way the game is played.

[Slips]

Heres the thing though.

 

Breachers/Assault/Tac Squads aren't compulsory troops unless specifically called out like in Stone Gauntlet with Breachers for the IF or Vets and Terminators under Pride of the Legion.

 

So, when a RoW calls for a Specific Selection to be used as Compulsory Troops (Recon Squads in this case), your minimum compulsory troops selections in the AoD FoC Must be these units. Afterwards, they can be anything you want from Tac to Tac Support to Assault to Breacher to more Recons until you max out on troops selections.

 

Since this RoW adds another Compulsory Troops Selection (Much like Hammer of Olympia, Coils of the Hydra, Berserker Assault, etc.), they just specified that this must also be a Recon Squad.

 

All that means is that, in this scenario, its a Double Positive of "Gotta Take Recons oh an another Troop Selection who's also gotta be Recons".

 

And its a Recon Company RoW - Its not really much of a company if theres only a Single Squad, now is it?