Galron Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I would agree that it is very unclear. I think its just one squad and that's how I will play it until FW decides to make things clear which could be as simple as an email to them I suppose. Either way it will be awhile til I get to play it. Recon in force? One squad telling people where to go and the rest of the force probing the enemy positions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I would agree that it is very unclear. I think its just one squad and that's how I will play it until FW decides to make things clear which could be as simple as an email to them I suppose. Either way it will be awhile til I get to play it. Recon in force? One squad telling people where to go and the rest of the force probing the enemy positions? It's not unclear, just wilful misreading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 It's 3 squads lol. I think it's onl unclear if you don't really think about the wording and how the force org works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid_O Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 What do you guys think you would take as the bulk of your army assuming you take the 3 recon squads and spend ~500 points total on them total. I was thinking an scout/infiltrating Praevian and combi seekers/HH as fire support. Vorax could be good, with shrouding makin them more durable turn one, allowing more of them to make it to combat. A command squad in LR or on jetbikes as melee punch? What do you guys reckon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 What do you guys think you would take as the bulk of your army assuming you take the 3 recon squads and spend ~500 points total on them total. I was thinking an scout/infiltrating Praevian and combi seekers/HH as fire support. Vorax could be good, with shrouding makin them more durable turn one, allowing more of them to make it to combat. A command squad in LR or on jetbikes as melee punch? What do you guys reckon? Would you be trying to run Terminus's initial plan of taking Skorr and choosing Master of Ambush, and then giving as many units as possible the double-up of both Infiltrate and Scout (via Mutable Tactics)? That seems like a strong way to run it. Head-hunters would offer another way to get infiltrate & scout combos naturally so yeah that might work. Don't think I'd use jetbikes expressly for melee; use Outriders instead for the power weapon access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid_O Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 @Letsyoudown yeah I feel the same about Skorr being probably the best option. As for jetbikes I was thinking specifically jetbike command squad for all power weapons, but that doesn't really mesh with skorr. Outriders with melta bombs and power weapons would make sense fluff wise and as distraction/harrying units Also maybe rehashing the whole infiltrate and scout breachers with grav guns up close to deal with armor and pin the enemy in place. But now throw em in cover for a boost in survivability. Top it off with bringing phosphex rapiers to pummel and further corral infantry. Suicide recon melta bomb teams to finish off immobilized vehicles? Man I can't get a Praevian with max Vorax out of my head. Infiltrate them, they've got scout stock, and move through cover for being MCs. Plus PE from the designator, they could be great with the added first turn survivability. I may need to get some just to try it out. I'm kind just throwing things out as they come to me, if it's crap let me know, but it can't be any worse than the compulsory troop circle jerk haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I can't gush enough about Vorax. They are now a very solid selection (lots of buffs for them, plus Castellax no longer criminally cheap). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 In terms of output what do Vorax do, not seen thier rules in depth before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid_O Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 In combat on the charge 4 s6 ap2 rending attacks each at I4. Shooting wise with poisoned rounds for their rotor cannons each they have 8 poisoned shots plus a lightning gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 ....Guess I'm getting some Vorax! In terms of defence what are they rocking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) T6 3W 3(4?)+/5++ If I remember correctly. Edited February 19, 2016 by Slipstreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquid_O Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) T6 W3 4+ with no invulnerable. So they die fairly easily to shooting. Which is why I think the shrouding from the recon row is so good for them. Also they are succeptible to krak grenades, so either hit terminators with them and kill them before they hit back or give the Praevian a lightning claw to cull power armor at I5 before they hit you with grenades Edited February 19, 2016 by Liquid_O Terminus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Still not bad. Plus they look pretty rad. Thanks for sharing. £49 for 3 of them is quite cool aswell. Plus Rad guns :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yeah, they can have Rad/Irad weapons. Ap4(5?) but Fleshbane and Radphage so it can pile on the wounds and force saves. Its no Ap3 Irradiation Engine but, hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 What do Vorax do? In as few words as I can: MAKE. CHILDREN. CRY. But seriously, these guys are awesome and can kill anything from other monstrous creatures, to hordes, to multi-wound terminators, and can even throw some weight around against vehicles with rending or smash attacks. My perfect Vorax is 90-points, which gets you frag grenades, bio-corrosive ammunition, and an irad cleanser. If you play in a cover-sparse environment, you could save a meltabomb per Vorax by ditching the frag grenades. Also, after the first 2 or 3, additional templates are hard to utilize effectively, so you could leave them with the stock lightning gun and save another pair of meltabombs. Mobility: Scout and Fleet, so they can get where they need to and start putting in work with reliable charges. Shooting: Each killbot gets 8 BS4 poison (4+) AP6 shots at 15" , and a flamer template with Fleshbane (wound on 2+) and rad-phage (cumulative -1T if suffer a wound). This will stack a lot of wounds on any target with a toughness value you choose to point them at, and if you get a rad-phage wound on a monstrous creature or a character, it makes it that much easier to finish them off in melee. Some folks will recommend an enhanced targeting array for +1BS and -1 to enemy cover saves, but since the rotor cannons are only AP6 and the template cares neither about the BS or the cover, I do not recommend it. Preferred enemy from a Praevian will make their shooting even scarier. Melee: WS4, S6, I4, three base attacks with AP2 and rending. If you take them as Cybernetica allies instead of with a Pravian, they also gain I5. Durability: This is where the Vorax loses out to other automata. While it has T6 and three wounds, it only has carapace armor with no kind of invulnerable save, so a unit full of power fists will sting. It's better to trim these units down to acceptable size with ranged firepower, and then finish them off. Liquid_O 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Clarification: Rad Phage does no stack since it specifies "One or More Wounds" unless thats changed. It does stack with Rad Furnace and Rad 'Nades and all the other mumbojumbo. Edited February 19, 2016 by Slipstreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yeah, they can have Rad/Irad weapons. Ap4(5?) but Fleshbane and Radphage so it can pile on the wounds and force saves. Its no Ap3 Irradiation Engine but, hey. Ah that's what I was getting confused with. Still, template weapons. Swoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Clarification: Rad Phage does no stack since it specifies "One or More Wounds" unless thats changed. It does stack with Rad Furnace and Rad 'Nades and all the other mumbojumbo. This is again vague. "A model which loses one or more wounds to an attack with this special rule and survives has its Toughness value reduced by -1 for the rest of the battle." The way I read it is, if you deal multiple rad-phage wounds in a shooting phase, it will only reduce it by one. But if they subsequently get rad-phaged again (although what could be alive at this point, honestly?), they get another -1. I guess it shouldn't matter very often since all the things should be dead. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) Clarification: Rad Phage does no stack since it specifies "One or More Wounds" unless thats changed. It does stack with Rad Furnace and Rad 'Nades and all the other mumbojumbo. This is again vague. "A model which loses one or more wounds to an attack with this special rule and survives has its Toughness value reduced by -1 for the rest of the battle." The way I read it is, if you deal multiple rad-phage wounds in a shooting phase, it will only reduce it by one. But if they subsequently get rad-phaged again (although what could be alive at this point, honestly?), they get another -1. I guess it shouldn't matter very often since all the things should be dead. It's another one for the Rules Forum & it's definitely been discussed before, but what it comes down to is the effects of special rules do not stack unless a rule specifies that it stacks (see Horus & his Talon). Allowing stacking effects without specification ended up leading to other shenanigans. What's very telling in the case of Rad-phage in particular is that it specifies "a model which loses one or more wounds" implying you could lose 3 wounds and still be at just -1T. That said, you're incredibly unlikely to ever wound something with most rad-phage weapons more than once anyway so it's unlikely to even come up most of the time. edit: oh you more or less said the same on these points, sorry skimmed your post at first as I'm on the way out of the house :P Edited February 19, 2016 by LetsYouDown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Good to know regardless, thanks. I also forgot to mention that if Skorr is leading the army, they would benefit from Conqueror of Cities. Move through cover and stealth would make them a lot more survivable as you could really get in there. 1ncarnadine 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caillum Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Well, as Liquid_O said, they have Move Through Cover innately (being Monstrous Creatures). Good points about taking irad-cleansers instead of ETA though, Terminus. They are definitely a great unit. Will test run a combat Praevian with them for sure! Terminus 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 So my castellax have been merrily stomping through cover, but someone I forgot to extend the Vorax the same privilege. They are even better than I thought. :P For a Praevian, I would consider artificer/boarding shield/lightning claw (non-Alphas), or artificer/refractor/lightning claw/power dagger (Alphas). The krak grenades issue is definitely of concern, and they are very plentiful in the 30th millennium. I've kind of stopped noticing it because I will play Reductor/Taghmata main and ally in all my robots from Cybernetica, but having some I5 anti-marine attacks will definitely help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) So my castellax have been merrily stomping through cover, but someone I forgot to extend the Vorax the same privilege. They are even better than I thought. For a Praevian, I would consider artificer/boarding shield/lightning claw (non-Alphas), or artificer/refractor/lightning claw/power dagger (Alphas). The krak grenades issue is definitely of concern, and they are very plentiful in the 30th millennium. I've kind of stopped noticing it because I will play Reductor/Taghmata main and ally in all my robots from Cybernetica, but having some I5 anti-marine attacks will definitely help. Just throwing it out there but a lightning claw/power dagger combo costs exactly as much as two lightning claws in I think every instance, so whatever looks cooler to you Is allying Cybernetica to Taghmata actually legal? If so I'd definitely do it but I thought it wasn't? Edited February 20, 2016 by LetsYouDown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 A Power Claw gives you Rending, so there is that which lets you melee Wraithknights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ncarnadine Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 A Power Claw gives you Rending, so there is that which lets you melee Wraithknights. you mean the dagger? although that is true. didn't think of that. I tend to just forget what the power dagger actually does and think of it as a bonus attack for someone with a specialist weapon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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