[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Terminus]

Please posts lists in the appropriate forum.

[Charlo]

Please posts lists in the appropriate forum.

Pish posh. Personally I think it's fine to post them as long as it's not going overboard.

 

Are you planning a RoW with that Grey?

[Terminus]

Fair enough, I don't mind lists when there is a specific question that discussion can develop from, but just entire list construction discussion I feel belongs in the right forum.

 

Anyway, the list is fine, I'd take different heavy support but whatever. The terminator squad wastes too many points, is unreliable and vulnerable in chosen deliver method, especially with S10 AP2 templates flying around. The sgts with power fists need daggers.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Terminus

[GreyCrow]

@Terminus : If the Alpha Legion posts its secrets to other Legiones, how can it keep the secrecy ! :p But yeah, sorry, I saw other threads in Tactica post lists so I thought it was fine. Besides, I don't really want to discuss the spceifics of the list (aka upgrade selections), but I was wondering if you guys feel like it is a proper usage of the Harrowmaster and the capabilities of the LA rule.

 

@Charlo : Not really for 2000 points, but I was thinking to use that list as a build up for a potential Coils at 3 or 4k points with more room to spare to play with some toys. I say potential because I don't really have another Legion unit in mind to steal :p And even then, +1/Reroll Seize and -1 Reserves is always good.

 

I do wonder though if Headhunters with combis and Dynat and Exodus could be a cool combo... Scout/Outflank.Infiltrate/Deep Strike, always able to bring the pain where it hurts. Though it's becoming an AL all stars mash up :p

[Terminus]

Not really, I feel a list like this benefits more from Skorr for extra USRs. Dynat is our guy for pod lists, because his best rule kicks in in their deployment zone. My current experiments revolve around Pride rite using dreadnoughts and terminators in pods. Mutable tactic tank hunter so combi-plasma is AP1 and rerolling armour penetration.

[GreyCrow]

Fair enough, that makes sense. The idea was to be quite scary with the Lernaean and Chainfists so they act as a fire magnet for the rest of the army, but a Dreadclaw squad with combi-Plasmas would be more effective.

 

How about using Headhunters with Infiltrate, Scout (with mutable tactics or Exodus), combi-plasmaing/meltaing T1 ? Outflanking them would require a Rhino though and they'd lose the ability to Infiltrate. They do seem to be a bit more multi-purpose than the Mor Deythan who are like Super Seekers. Comparatively, they have less punch due to the lack of PE on their target, but they do have more damage potential over multiple turns due to Banestrike and the Daggers.

 

Although, in the case of Dynat, might as well throw some regular Seekers to completely ensure the kill.

 

________

 

EDIT : 

 

On a more top-level discussion specifically disconnected to any list in particular, but going back to the fundamentals of the AL LA rule, Mutable Tactics. Was browing through previous pages trying to find hidden knowledge, and came to that following post.

 

 

 

But I gotta agree with Charlo, Alpha Legion excel at selecting a 'generic' RoW and adapting it to their own purpose through the use of Mutable Tactics and / or specific Warlord Traits.

These days, I'm heavily into Legion Recon Company and good ol' PotL.

 

I mainly considered Mutable Tactics as "choose the better option depending on the scenario", but Unknown Legionnaire's point (and a several by you guys in the next pages) really opened the opportunities of picking a Mutable Tactic to build a list around rather than having a list capable of taking advantage of the different tactics.

 

Seems like it could synergize even well with Coils of the Hydra despite the restrictions : With Rhino mounted Tactical squads and a large contigent of Headhunters/Outriders with combis, Tank Hunter becomes quite an interesting rule to pick due to the synergy with Scout/Infiltrate for the potential of a very large Alpha Strike.

Even forcing Infiltrate to throw forward large tanky units along with some nasty fire support in the form of HSS is pretty good. 10 or 20 Lernaeans, 60 Tacticals supported by a nasty amount of HSS firepower sounds fun.

 

Or move through cover for a Bike/Jetbike army.

 

Are you building your lists like this ? Sorry for being 2 years late to the party !

Edited April 23, 2016 by GreyCrow

[Terminus]

It really depends. For Coils, for example, I always use Infiltrate if using Alpharius to meet rite requirements (no arguments on this point please, we've heard it before).  If it's the 2500-point version of the list with Skorr, I use Master of Ambush to infiltrate a few key units and then pick Tank Hunter or Scout (or if I need one of the other strategic traits, they infiltrate again).  The Dynat Pride list I'm building picks mostly tank hunter, or I could see going counter-attack if facing an army without armor that would likely charge my deep striking elements.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Terminus

[GreyCrow]

No argument about the requirements for the ROW, like you said it's beating a dead horse

 

Good point with Counter Attack being a good tactic for Deep Striking armies like DPA.

 

So many possibilities, this is exciting

 

How would you say a "meatgrinder" list (infantry heavy : Terminators, Tacticals, Support and Heavy Support Squads bringing the Dakka) using Infiltrate would fare these days ? Due to the lack of armour they'll be super vulnerable to the barrage that is apparently common, but I was thinking that Infiltrate would help out a lot to actually get to the fight.

Edited April 23, 2016 by GreyCrow

[Terminus]

Define what you mean by "get in the fight".  Infiltrate/Scout does offer you positional advantages, and Tank Hunter can let you dominate armour-heavy lists, but when it comes to close encounters (defined as melee and rapid fire ranges), the Alpha Legionnaire is outclassed pound for pound by many contenders. Sons of Horus have higher ballistic skill in rapid fire range and get outnumber bonuses, World Eaters/Emperor's Children/Night Lords are absolutely terrifying in melee and will murderize you good (Lerneans and tooled-out 300-point Veteran squads can do well in melee on the Alpha side, but much like the Children need the charge to make a real impact and don't have sonic shriekers to keep the attrition on their side in long engagements... the multi-attack dagger/fist characters should get a  high kill tally though). You don't want to be anywhere near Iron Warriors running their artillery rite, or Imperial Fist bolter barrages. Raven Guard have many of the same positional advantages, but have better special units and cameleoline to swing shooting contests in their favor.

 

Against enemies that outclass you up close, you should utilize infiltrate and scout to keep your distance as much as possible while your long ranged elements soften them up.  Infiltrate/Scout is not only for getting as close as possible, infiltrate is great for keeping the opponent guessing about your deployment, and scout can be used to retreat and redeploy and throw their plans out the window even if they seize initiative. This can be used to keep melee armies at bay longer, or isolate elements of superior shooting forces so you can overwhelm them while the opponent is forced to reposition his heavy guns (many of which cannot be fired or are otherwise limited when moved).

 

The list you are talking about can work (although I would go for veteran squads over tacticals if you're going to footslog, tacticals should be as cheap as possible in rhinos/drop pods going after objectives), especially if you lean heavily on rapier platforms which can shrug off most artillery threats. You don't even need to go Pride of the Legion if you don't want, Armoured Column or Fury of the Ancients lets you replace the tactical tax with predators or dreadnoughts (don't go crazy on dreadnoughts), so all your scoring can come from seekers, veterans and support squads. If you want to foot-slog entirely, consider the Zone Mortalis Rite. You can have a line of rapier platforms and breachers with 5++ invulnerable that have deployment shenanigans, and one teleporting terminator squad with special weapons from the rite and another teleporting terminator squad from Dynat's trait. Bring an Aegis with comm relay for more reliable reserves. All these lists can benefit from intercepting units to deal with drop pod lists, which can be brutal.

 

You can also make some interesting combinations with militia units using Sacrificial Offering and Army of Dark Compliance. This is a really fluffy way to represent Alpha Legion, and makes Skorr even more of a badass since his trait boosts the whole army. Imagine Conquer of Cities for move through cover and stealth for all your giant mobs of cultists. Fun times.

 

Book VI was really the greatest thing ever for Legion armies. The Legions of Darkness update fell short of my expectations, but still very admirably helped the older Legions. If the core list update fixes some of the wacky points costs (mostly jump pack units), we will have reached a Golden Age in the Age of Darkness. :D

[Terminus]

Almost forgot, the artillery threats are phosphex rapiers, scorpius whirlwinds, and Typhons.  All of these threats are dealt with the same tool, podded Cortus Contemptors and Leviathans.  Podded tank-hunting dynat-super-charged plasma/melta will also make all but the Typhon (the rarest of these threats) cry.

[Charlo]

Dynat.

 

Orbital assault.

 

Tank Hunter if heavy AV, counter attack if heavy infantry opponent.

 

Have fun!

[2gud2bbad]

Dynat.

 

Orbital assault.

 

Tank Hunter if heavy AV, counter attack if heavy infantry opponent.

 

Have fun!

 

Exactly what i'm playing. Terminators and Seekers with Combi weapons excel here as well as the alltime present veterans. Tactical support Squads also become extremly vital here. An Alpha Legion Orbital Assault list is really hard to beat imo

[GreyCrow]

Good points all around guys, thanks for the insights ;)

 

@Terminus : When I meant "get in the fight", I really implied "on the most interesting terms." I don't really believe in the Chop da Shooty Gitz unless the lists include a massive bullet sponge assault unit (and even 10 Terminators on foot aren't really doing much). Your point about the artillery ROW makes perfect sense in that framework. I still think firepower in a ranged game is of capital importance, but the ability to fight in melee when it comes to it is important to have (from the "Spamming? thread where having no form of melee deterrent in the Predator list was a key weakness.). So yeah, in that footslog list, the goal was to avoid deploying too close, but delaying deployment until the enemy has deployed and the safest spot is determined thakns to Infiltrate :)

[Terminus]

How is everyone arming their vet sergeants? Assuming artificer armour is a given other things for consideration:

 

1. Combi-Weapon: weapon of choice for meatshield sgts, pop off a sniper flamer template and then be the first to die. Same principle as tactical support sgts.

2. Power Axe: another cheap load out that gives you something to swing in challenges or melee, without spending so much that you regret losing the Sgt.

3. Power Fist/Dagger: some of the most potent sgts among the Legions, with 3 attacks and option for S8 AP2 I1 or S3 AP3 Rending I4. Expensive option though, as at this point you've spent 30 points in gear and you don't really want him catching bullets. The default option for melee veterans.

4. Power Axe/Combi-Weapon: combination of first two options, flexible but same issue as #3.

5. Fist/Dagger/Combi-Weapon: kitchen sink option, dropping 40 points in gear alone. Definitely don't want this guy dying, almost certainly too much to invest.

[GreyCrow]

Artificer Armour + Fist/Dagger if points allow (as in these cumulative 5 points don't take up the budget for more interesting unit upgrades elsewhere :p ). The Power Fist is probably the most generalist weapon due to being able to damage everything quite well except AV13 walkers and AV14 rear armour tanks.

 

Hesitated with a Power Axe for a long time, but ultimately the wounding on 2 and the Instant Death potential for 5 extra points is a bargain too good to pass in my opinion.

[Charlo]

Fist and Dagger IMO.

 

You can hope for a rend at I4 with more attacks than other sergeants or you can strike at I1 and pulverise someone.

[shaun03]

Lighting claw and power dagger is fun option for CC, not as powerful as fist or axe, nor will net you competitve advantages.

 

When going with orbital assult, looking at what would be better option, taking grav reapers or support squads with melta and another one with grav. Clearly there point cost issues. But overall getting more drops is always useful, than forcing hard choice of shooting grav sq or melta sq, where reapers always seem to be target first. But increasing foot print is another drawback as the sqs need to get close and clog up the drop zone.

 

Overall what are some viable options for orbital assult list other than reapers and dreads.

[2gud2bbad]

How is everyone arming their vet sergeants? Assuming artificer armour is a given other things for consideration:

 

1. Combi-Weapon: weapon of choice for meatshield sgts, pop off a sniper flamer template and then be the first to die. Same principle as tactical support sgts.

2. Power Axe: another cheap load out that gives you something to swing in challenges or melee, without spending so much that you regret losing the Sgt.

3. Power Fist/Dagger: some of the most potent sgts among the Legions, with 3 attacks and option for S8 AP2 I1 or S3 AP3 Rending I4. Expensive option though, as at this point you've spent 30 points in gear and you don't really want him catching bullets. The default option for melee veterans.

4. Power Axe/Combi-Weapon: combination of first two options, flexible but same issue as #3.

5. Fist/Dagger/Combi-Weapon: kitchen sink option, dropping 40 points in gear alone. Definitely don't want this guy dying, almost certainly too much to invest.

 

AA, Power Dagger and Power Fist was the way to go for me, but atm I'm considering dropping the fists on my normal tactical sergeants to be cheaper. My Veterans are mostly tooled out with 2 meltas and meltabombs (Tankhunters mutable tactic) so it would be valuable to add a combi-melta to the sergeant there. Sniper Squads with 2 Plasma guns would also fare extremely well with an additional combi-plasma.

 

I guess AA and Power Dagger are mandatory for every nearly Sergeant in our Legion the rest depends on their job on the battlefield. That's why i don't bother giving my tacticals a power fist.

 

When going with orbital assult, looking at what would be better option, taking grav reapers or support squads with melta and another one with grav. Clearly there point cost issues. But overall getting more drops is always useful, than forcing hard choice of shooting grav sq or melta sq, where reapers always seem to be target first. But increasing foot print is another drawback as the sqs need to get close and clog up the drop zone.

 

Overall what are some viable options for orbital assult list other than reapers and dreads.

 

 

When combining Orbital Assault with Tank Hunters mutable tactics, some choices become super point efficent.

 

E.g. 5 Terminators w/ 5 combi-weapons, 4 power fists and 1 chain fist and power dagger on the sergeant. for 245 pts. Awesome imo

It also ups the 210 pts tactical support squad with meltas in their droppod sporting 5 guys.

Veterans Squads with Melta Bombs and 3 Meltas (1 combi) with USR Sniper become dangerous Tank- and TEQ-Hunters.

the all-time present 3-Landspeeder-Squadron with 3 graviton guns.

Seekers with Combi weapons

 

rapiers and dreads just suck compared to these (except for the cortus imo)

[rendingon1+]

A quick question:

Can you buy 2 pdaggers for a chracter or just 1?

[Terminus]

"Any character model with Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) may take a power dagger in addition to their normal options for +5 points."

 

The way I interpret that you can only have one, but you could spin it as an additional line to their weapons options as "power-dagger.....+5 points" that they can take infinite amounts of times. I don't think there are any wargear options in 30K that you can take infinite amount of times, they are usually straight exchanges or limited in quantity in some way.

 

Why would you want to?  I think I rather pair a sword/axe with my pistol or CCW, than two daggers at the same cost.

[rendingon1+]

Additional pdagger would marginally improve Exodus' cc abilities (yes, I'm still trying my luck with Exodus ).

 

BTW after seeing BA Blade of Perdition thread, I was wondering if Execution Shot (2 wounds per unsaved wound) would kill two 1W models. 

[Charlo]

 

BTW after seeing BA Blade of Perdition thread, I was wondering if Execution Shot (2 wounds per unsaved wound) would kill two 1W models. 

 

Sadly no, as at that point you are rolling your saves for individual models, as the wounds have been allocated.

 

Blade of perdition on the other hand doubles wounds cause before allocation and saves.

[rendingon1+]

So it's as I thought. Thanks Charlo.

[Charlo]

Basically, go for characters. That's his jam.

[rendingon1+]

He's only good at taking on weapon specialists and light vehicles. Unfortunately those  2+(or even 4+) LoS rolls are making him near useless at killing characters. But that's the problem with all precision shots anyway.