[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[ddarz]

Not to mention all the artificer armour that all the notables are always wearing... so all centurions, apothecaries, even Tac Sergeants are safe from him.

Even if you roll that sweet rending on a six, he will still just LOS it...

Which is a shame as taking out one apothecary or Master of Signal would instantly make his cost worth it.

Exodus needs to learn some tricks from the Vindicare.

[shaun03]

where to stick dynat when playing orbital assult list. he doesn't fit in pod with any tac sqs or terminators. And 5 man vet sqs are counter productive. So not sure where I good place to put him. The rule issue of attach him to sq that DS is flip floping back and forth. Putting him with seekers or headhunter and infiltrating is problematic as well.

 

Debating the value of putting him in command sq and podding him in. Points add up fast, pros can tool sq for either Tank hunters or counter attack, depending on which tactic I chose.

[Terminus]

He can go with Seekers no problem, they don't have infiltrate. Headhunters with a dedicated transport lose infiltrate, so you can join them in their tank too.

 

The rules issue is flipping back and forth because of a combination of factors: 1. FW language is very loose, 2. People will seize on any inconsistency for advantage, and 3. No one ever changed anyone's mind on the internet no matter now well-reasoned, well-thought out, and well-supported their argument.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Dynat has a cognis signum so he goes well with a plasma or melta support squad. Headhunters and seekers are already bs5 so they don't need a cognis.

[Imren]

I tend to face termie-stars with primarch loaded up in a spartan and playing objective missions. When having Dynat (RoW: coils of the hydra) in the list I rather deep strike some tartaros termies (chainfists, thunder hammer and plasma blaster and also enjoys rerolled sweeping advances thanks to Dynat) into the enemy line and act as a speedbump to the spartan. That can take out the tank but also mess abit with the content. A deep striking tac. support squad all with meltaguns and bombs can do the same thing to the spartan but easily folds against the content. This means you take out the mobility of the termies and primarch (on top of it is the bonus to damage on vehicles in enemy deployment zone) and they have to footslog toward the objectives where I have infiltrated my tac squads to camp and shoot at whatever incoming.

 

An assault squad is included for early assaults and tie up threats advancing against the objectives I keep (by infiltrating my tacs on them).

 

In these games I rather put Dynat in a 20x tac squad and infiltrate the squad at the most significant objective and camp there. Since you can infiltrate the other tac squads to other objectives you're not that dependent on rhinos and pods.

 

You want to keep Dynat alive because of the hubris rule. hiding him in a 20 man squads somewhat gives that survivability and together with a vet sgt with p.fist, p.dagger and a.armour also gives some counter-punch if the squad gets charged.

 

In the backfield I keep two things: A squad of recon snipers (or sometimes another ML squad) and a heavy support squad with ML with augury scanner accompanied by a master of signals with meltaboms and p.dagger for counterpunch any deepstrikers or vehicles aimed at take them out. Also this guy brings down the high strength pieplates on enemy threats in their deployment zone.

 

This army is good with tank hunters (one or two squads of 5x missile launchers with BS5) But also with counter attack.

 

Bottom line, Keep Dynat safe hidden in a 20x tac squad, see his power sword and hammer rather as a "deterrent" than as a means for assault

 

This army have no vehicles, which can be beneficial in a melta heavy meta (such as 40k games). Also its a bit sneaky, looks like a bunch of infantry, but with long range firepower equivalent of scary vehicles thanks to the BS5 tankhunting missile launchers and the orbital bombardment.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Brother Najanus

[Balthamal]

Being honest, if you're running Dynat and not loading up on AP 1/2 to be primed in the opposing deployment zone he's wasted. At the very least you want contemptors/cortus'/leviathans in pods not to mention combi/hammer/chainfist terminators and melta/plas support squads purely to make use of his +1 on the damage chart. This is the way to gut the armour heavy lists. And if it's infantry heavy instead, well the aforementioned dreadnoughts do a more than thorough job of mincing all infantry

[exsanguis]

Hey guys,

 

What do you think of this for an infiltrating AL list? My fluff would be that they're Terran loyalists who are either not part of Alpharius' grand scheme (I think he's playing both sides, hedging his bets as it were) or know about it and their honour won't allow them to turn traitor. This is mainly for casual use, and I will always ensure there's plenty of terrain to move into in the middle of the board as I hate tables which are 90% no mans land.

 

 

Alpha Legion 2000 Infiltration Cell (1992pts)

Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness)

• HQ
  • Legion Centurion

    Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Power Dagger, Thunderhammer, Volkite Charger

    • Consul
      • Delegatus
        • Rite of Command
          • Master of the Legion

            Pride of the Legion

• Troops
  • Legion Veteran Tactical Squad

    2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Sniper

    • Legion Veteran Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Dagger, Power Fist

  • Legion Veteran Tactical Squad

    2x Heavy Bolter and Suspensor Web, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Legion Vexilla, Sniper

    • Legion Veteran Sergeant

      Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Dagger, Power Fist

  • Lernaen Terminator Squad

    Chainfist, 4x Lernean Terminator, Plasma Blaster

    • Harrower

      Power Dagger, Power Fist

• Elites
  • Apothecarion Detachment
    • Legion Apothecary

      Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

    • Legion Apothecary

      Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner

  • Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery

    2x Legion Rapier, Shatter Shell

• Heavy Support
  • Legion Sicaran Battle Tank

    Lascannons

  • Leviathan Siege Dreadnought Talon
    • Leviathan Siege Dreadnought

      Armoured Ceramite, Cyclonic Melta Lance, Legion Dreadnought Drop Pod, Phosphex Discharger, 2x Twin-linked Volkite Caliver

  • Sicaran Venator Tank Destroyer

    Dozer Blade

• Legion
  • Legion Astartes

    Loyalist, XX: Alpha Legion

The Lernaens I toyed with the idea of a Conversion Beamer, but I think with infiltrate it would only be a S6 blast most of the time, so I went with the plasma instead.

 

Thoughts?

[shaun03]

Destroyers roll if any in OA list, I like them when planning on counter attack list. But tough finding points in all comers list.

 

Working on few finale tweeks, and got to cut the fat. And 10 destroyers are eatting up huge chunk of points.

 

Leviathans are hands down better use of points over destroyers and trying to squeeze both in my list is just impractical.

 

Rather than double post i just add on to this one.

 

Find a good ain't air in orbital assult list. In 30k on 30k it's bit more simpler than 30k vs 40k do death from skies being released. As it doesn't include any of our air craft.

 

I could overlook AA and hope of the best, but hope isn't course of action. So looking at options for dealing with air power. Flak missles are very pricy. Xiphon is choice for 30k but event is mixed so 40k plays out differently with new rules.

 

But discounting the new rules, and other flak and deredeo. Does any one have a good away of dealing with flyers when playing OA list?

Edited May 11, 2016 by shaun03

[Terminus]

There's always snap fire. Get that plasma support squad within 12" of a flyer and you'll probably get enough S7 AP2 hits to down it, unless it's a zooming Kharybdis or something.

[Excessus]

There's always snap fire. Get that plasma support squad within 12" of a flyer and you'll probably get enough S7 AP2 hits to down it, unless it's a zooming Kharybdis or something.

And you'll get as many gets hot wounds as hits...

[Terminus]

No pain, no gain.

[GreyCrow]

Hey guys ! Any success running a "typical" AL list with lots of footsloggers using Infiltrate to play defensively on their terms ? Meant to draw fire in preparation from a Deep Strike/Outflank attack by fast attack choices (Outriders, Landspeeders, etc) or tanks held in reserves, using full Lernaeans as a speedbump for the deathstars (considering they'll have an edge over many other Terminators due to their higher WS and 4++ and instagibbing potential with fists/chainfists which negate the 2W many elite Termis now have).

[Terminus]

No, as usual your idea of armies seems to be fantasy based on how they "should" or "would" deploy their forces in "real life".  Points limit a lot of the stuff you're talking about.  You can't just drop 400 points into a terminator squad to use as a potential speed bump maybe.  At that point, you're already building around that squad with a Kharybdis or Spartan to transport them, and some support/melee characters to act as force multipliers, distractions like podded dreadnoughts, etc.

 

30K and 40K lists do not represent armies, they represent a single slice of the battlefield and the various units that happen to be in that snapshot.  Unless you're playing like 5000+ points, you're not going to get to use all the toys you want to use.  You can't build a "typical" gunline and have a strong deep strike/outflank element without sacrificing the potency of both playstyles.

[Terminus]

Sure, but then why would you dedicate a very significant part of your force to bullet-catchers with no offensive capabilities?  If you want to run 20-man squads, make them despoilers and run NL, SoH or WE.  IMO, the Ravens and Snakes are all about the elite Marines.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Terminus

[Terminus]

Sorry for two posts in a row, but I wanted to ask the Dynat users for some advice. This is also a list, but since we've established that's cool as long as there is a tactical discussion element, here goes.

 

I'm trying to step out of my Skorr comfort zone and try something different with Dynat. This is ironic since he was the first FW model I purchased, but never could design a list I liked. Until now.  Idea is a null-deploy list, with a heavy front-loaded deep strike (1590 points!) that drops two Leviathans and a jinking Kharybdis first turn hopefully benefiting from their Shrouding. This is a lot of hull points and threat to deal with, and should hopefully have them plinking away at all of them without doing too much significant damage.

 

My reasons for putting Dynat in a pod with the support squad were to give this unit a bit more staying power, to keep him off the board during the initial turns to avoid giving up Warlord point, to give the support squad BS5, and to avoid having too many eggs in one Kharybdis basket.  My main concern is that his pod may get delayed, which is 545 points of my army in one unit just hanging out in reserve.  I don't really mind the two tactical squads sitting in reserve until turn 4, since their goal is to go after objectives and not die.  If I put Dynat into the Kharybdis (1795 point deep strike!), he can flex his melee muscle some more (as well as add a thunderhammer to the unit for dealing with Primarchs), and the support squad landing nearby to get buffed by the Cognis signum isn't totally outside of the realm of possibility.

 

Rite of War: Orbital Assault

Mutable Tactic: Tank Hunters

HQ: Dynat, power dagger - 205 (joins Support squad)

HQ: Primus Medicae, Cataphract Armour, Chainfist, Power Dagger - 135 (joins Lerneans)

Elite: Apothecary with Artificer, Power Sword, Melta-bomb, Auspex - 75 (joins Support squad)

Elite: 8x Lernean Terminators, Venom Harness, 6x powerfists, 2x chainfists, power dagger - 410 (ride Kharybdis)

Troops: Tactical Squad, Sgt with artificer and MB, in Drop Pod - 200

Troops: Tactical Squad, Sgt with artificer and MB - 165 (deep strike via Warlord Trait)

Troops: 7x Plasma Support Squad, Sgt with artificer, in Drop Pod - 265

Heavy: Leviathan with Phosphex Discharger, Ceramite, Grav Bombard, Siege Claw, in Dreadnought Drop Pod - 390

Heavy: Leviathan with Phosphex Discharger, Ceramite, Melta Lance, Siege Drill, in Dreadnought Drop Pod - 395

Heavy: Kharybdis Assault Claw - 260

Total - 2500

 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Terminus

[Balthamal]

To be honest, you've probably nailed down the prime list composition, or at the very least it's ethos, to make the best use of Dynat.  Lot's of AP1/2 to milk his Harrowing rule and in pods to get them in optimal position to the job required. With that particular list top loading the Deep Strike is the only viable option really seeing as they're going to take a pounding from enemy fire the turn after they land and 2 leviathans is a massive pair of hitters to land turn 1, the Kharybdis loaded with Lernaeans is almost a bonus in comparison.

 

I'd run Dynat with the Plasma boys, give them all BS5 and keep any assault units at arm's length, the Lernaeans are going to be heading for the juiciest targets in the enemy field and you're opponent is going to do everything he can to tarpit them, at least until the levi's have been dealt with.

 

The one thing I'd try to squeeze in by shaving points elsewhere, a saboteur. Have him outflank into the enemies deployment zone, and you're looking at a 1/3 chance of blowing any vehicle or a 50/50 of immobilizing it which in the case of levis/spartans is worth the hundred or so points

[Terminus]

I do like the Saboteur with Dynat, but everything must deep strike in orbital assault.

[Balthamal]

Very true, 

[Caillum]

I do like the Saboteur with Dynat, but everything must deep strike in orbital assault.

Prime target for Dynat's Warlord Trait, isn't he? :)

[Terminus]

Then I need another drop pod for the tactical squad.  It's cute, but it's way too random to throw away ~150 points on, especially compared to the force multiplier that is the Primus Medicae.  For a 3000 point expansion, though, he's definitely going in there.

[Resonance]

I'm thinking of running 5 palatine blades with Armillus Dynat in a dreadclaw, how do you think this will go?

 

How many Phoenix spears would you all recommend?

 

Alpha legion subterfuge of all the forums....

[exsanguis]

Has anyone run their Alpha Legion using the Armoured Breakthrough RoW?

 

Would you choose Tank Hunters for the mutable tactic? What else would you run with it? Tac Supports with Volkite Calivers for anti-infantry so that your tanks can focus on enemy armour seems like a good idea to me.

[Terminus]

Definitely liking that rite.  Replace tactical troop tax with fast Predators, get Sicarans as Elites (or as a BS5 HQ), all Rhinos also fast. Pretty good stuff.

 

Tank hunter would be an option, or you could go Infiltrate/Scout as usual.  I would probably look towards Veterans for my scoring, so they can shoot two missiles out of the top hatch of their fast rhino.  The volkite squad sounds good, except that they HAVE to leave their Rhino to fire, so that's at least one turn you're not doing anything and getting shot at, before you can fire back.

 

With all these hulls in the way, I would be tempted to run a Cortus talon on foot as a second wave, but it would depend on what points we're talking about. There is also the discussion of whether you could pod dreadnoughts with this Rite (see Serrated Sun vs. Sacrificial Offering debate), too.

 

I'd be looking at something like this as a base-line.

Rite: Armoured Breakthrough

Mutable Tactic: Tank Hunter

Warlord Trait: Conqueror of Cities or Master of Ambush

HQ: Autilon Skorr - 125

Elites: Sicaran Battle Tank - lascannons - 175

Elites: 10x Veterans with missile launchers, artificer/fist/dagger, tactic: sniper, in Rhino - 315

Elites: 10x Veterans with missile launchers, artificer/fist/dagger, tactic: sniper, in Rhino - 315 

Troops: Predator - lascannons - 115

Troops: Predator - lascannons - 115

Troops: 6x Plasma Support Squad, Sgt with artificer/combi-plasma, in Rhino - 235

Heavy: Sicaran Venator - 190

Heavy: Whirlwind Scorpius - 115

Heavy: Deredeo - 220

 

Total: 1920 points, spend the last 80 on an Apothecary for the plasma squad, or two more plasma guns in the squad + whatever miscellaneous stuff. For 2500 points I'd probably add a close combat unit of some sort in a dreadclaw or the aforementioned pack of Cortus Contemptors. At that point you're practically guaranteed to run into heavy deep strike assaults, and this will give you a nasty counter-charge. So for example.

 

Cortus Contemptor Talon - 545

Cortus Contemptor, Chainfist with Gravgun, Kheres Cannon

Cortus Contemptor, Chainfist with Gravgun, TL Lascannon

Cortus Contemptor, Powerfist with Gravgun, Heavy Conversion Beamer

 

Kind of a mix of ranged weapons because it will take experimentation to figure out what works best. But should be pretty fun. Leaves 35 points over, so enough for a 7th plasma gunner and melta-bombs for that squad leader.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Terminus

[ak1508]

Can anybody please clear it up for me: how exactly are Lernaean termies better (if at all) than regular cataphractis or tartaros? I don't want to sound a bit silly, but I've never been the rules expert and and struggling to really understand what is their catch exactly. Thank you tons!

[Terminus]

Harrowmaster is a combat monster, they have Stubborn and WS5 for 15 points. I used to bemoan the volkite cost, but if you use them exclusively for combat, the volkites, grenades and Hammer of Wrath lets them mince large infantry swarms that usually give terminators trouble.

 

They are no Red Butchers or Justaerin, but they can do work.