[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Robzilla]

Truth be told I'd just run them with no heavies, or their corresponding special (like the Plasma guns if using plasma combi).

I've had very limited success building my vets as an all comers unit previously. I think I'd rather put my heavy guns in a heavy support slot, or mount them on tanks. (the land speeder is looking very appealing after this update actually)

[The laughing raven]

Funny you should say that, I started a thread on landspeeder usage yesterday after seeing the update, trying to work out what to swap them for from my coils list....

[Terminus]

I had great success with missile launchers. The templates get lots of hits for rending, or they can still have game against tanks with Tankhunter.

 

This has only gotten better, since you now get outflank as part of the Sniper tactic, so you can always show up in their deployment zone with Dynat. Or stack Tankhunter mutable with Machine Killers for rerollable S9 missiles. That has a 33% chance per hit to penetrate even land raiders.

[Fallen11]

Why are javelins considered so good now?

65pts for paper lasscanon, when for 100 something you get vindicator with lasscanon that is TL,shoots 3x when on place, better armor etc...and you can get 3 in one slot for 9x lasscanon shots for aroun 400pts.

 

I love javelin model, and would like excuse to buy them. Till now they have been so sub par choice for pts.

[Charlo]

They have outflank and also have a multi Melta and two Hunter Killer missiles on top of that for only a few more points.

 

They also got strafing run in the new book, so are BS5 against the majority and a new rule that means, unless immobilised, are hit in combat at a - 2 penalty.

 

They were good before, now they are incredible.

[Fallen11]

So what is best tactic for them? Outflank or deepstrike them with MM+lascannon+2HKM. Have them in 1-2 per unit? They don't seem that viable for using them as long range lasscanon, since MM will be out of range or unable to use 2d6 for pen. Although, they will probably go down turn after they arrive, hopefully they can take some tank down before they go down.

[The laughing raven]

seems most who use them run 2-3 at a time expecting them to crash and burn after the second turn on the table but that's having killed twice their weight in AV in return as such and drawn a decent chunk of fire away from the main line units.

[Robzilla]

Yeah, I'm thinking two units of two loaded up for the kill should let them target a wealth of units before they snuff it.

 

As to the vets, just totaled it up and....

 

For 355 points you get

10 combi weapons

4 power weapons

Pfist, artificer armour dagger sarge

And a rhino transport too.

 

Utter steal in my eyes!

[Charlo]

Alpha Legion Veterans:

 

For when you just need too many special rules to remember! 

[The laughing raven]

so saw a new list for AL today that had vets with "machine killer" as a skill is this a new option from the book as still waiting for my copy to arrive?

[Charlo]

Yep, it's instead of tank hunters.

 

Now it is a flat +1 to penetration rolls, so against AV all of your weapons are +1S essentially.

[The laughing raven]

so could you then combine this with tank hunters mutable as well (take it mutables are unchanged?), this will make AL and imp fist vets very scary for tanks... 

[Charlo]

You could indeed.

 

So you'd have +1 to Pen with re-rolls on your vets

 

Then you go further and field them in an army with Dynat.

 

Give them Combi-Meltaguns and a Dreadclaw to get into position.

 

Then you have:

 

A S8 AP1 weapon that, even against armored Ceramite gets +1 to Pen, with a Re-roll and Explodes stuff on a 4+.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Charlo

[Terminus]

Why are javelins considered so good now?

65pts for paper lasscanon, when for 100 something you get vindicator with lasscanon that is TL,shoots 3x when on place, better armor etc...and you can get 3 in one slot for 9x lasscanon shots for aroun 400pts.

 

I love javelin model, and would like excuse to buy them. Till now they have been so sub par choice for pts.

Javelins have more front-loaded damage, from a better position, at a much cheaper price (you get 2 for price of one laser vindi), in a far less competitive slot. All the reasons.

[ak1508]

I have to re-write all my lists now. Bugger lol guys, can you please explain what the rest of the vet tactics do aside from machine hunters and marksmen, which seem to represent tank hunters and sniper respectively? Cheers!

 

Also, how many more of you are gutted about having to score out the dread with a ddp because of the ddp being more expensive now? Can it actually be fielded via arriving from reserve for example, or are they simply gonna die horrbly and painfully if not arriving from the ddp?

Edited July 21, 2016 by ak1508

[Charlo]

LETS NOT derail another thread with the Dreadpod argument... There is plenty enough on it in the LACL changes topic... :P

 

As for Vets, sure - from 1D4Chan:

 

 

Resolve, grants the Stubborn USR and nothing else, which can be nice due to the lack of ATSKNF in 30k. .

Marksmen grant each model the Sniper and Outflank rules. There's always joy in sniping enemy officers with high-calibre anti-tank weapons from unexpected angles. This is among the best rule choice for most Vet squads, as it allows any and all of its ranged weapons to wound the likes of Monstrous Creatures and Primarchs on a 4+, and if any dice that comes up a 6 is AP2 to boot. Chortle as Wraithknights and Carnifexes drop to bolter fire.

Weapon Masters the whole squad gains +1 WS, so this one is obvious for a melee loadout. Remember they are Veterans with 2 base attacks + Pistol & CCW bonus, Suspensor webs (read Assault heavy weapons) and "everyone can take Power Weapons/Twin Lightning Claws",

Machine Killers, gives them all +1 to Armour Penetration rolls, which is for the most part, wasted on this squad's only 2 Heavy Weapons. And while even though they can all take meltas bombs, the universal FAQ's are now indicating that only one member of a squad can use a Grenade or bomb in any given phase.

Xenobane may reroll to-wound against Monstrous or Gargantuan Creatures. So basically only useful against Daemons or Mechanicum, unless you're playing games out of their appropriate settings.

[TompiQ]

I haven't seen confirmation either way, but you select veteran tactics "before the game begins". Does that refer to during list building, or could you select tactics after seeing your opponents force?

 

If the latter, 6 AL veteran squads in Rhinos are hilariously versatile...

[Charlo]

You can chop and change between games I believe.

 

But obviously some loadouts won't fare very well with certain others :P

 

WS5 and Counter attacks sounds brutal though...

[Terminus]

You can change it up, which is why I like missile launchers. Against armoured spearhead lists you can take machine killers and mutable Tankhunters, and hide in your rhinos popping off S9 rerollable missiles from the fire points.

 

90% of the time though you'll want Marksmen for sniper (less so for outflank). I'm frankly surprised they let them keep unit-wide sniper, it's such a potent rule.

 

The melee variant can be cute, I guess, but like the much better Dark Furies, they die very easy. For our melee option, I'm actually eyeballing the much cheaper command squads now, especially since they can take apothecaries. The terminator variant used to be a neck and neck alternative with Lerneans, but now are hands down better due to point cost.

 

It's funny that a new Legions book is more imperative than ever now since most unique choices are outdated and outclassed turd buckets.

[Fallen11]

Our special units were never that 'hot' compared whith what some legions get in comparassion. I for one, never used any, since I didn't see them better than anything what I can get in normal army list. Sadly...

[Charlo]

Larneans are pretty rad IMO. Nothing mind blowing but a fun unit with cool options.

[IronDrake28]

Lernaens are just the most schizophrenic unit XD

 

Here, have some plasma to go with your...volkite chargers? Or conversion beamers? Wait no volkite chargers are short ranged... Well at least they have weapons that hit at normal initiative. Sorry what was that? Power axes or either variety of fist? Dammit.

 

Seriously though, normal termies do what they do just as well, but cheaper and they can actually specialise. :|

[Terminus]

The conversion beamer actually makes sense. Facing tanks? Deploy and shoot tank hunting S10 AP1. Going after swarms? It adds a template to their volkite. If it was 15 points or less I'd consider it an option. Plasma blaster is simply dumb IMO, because you already paid for volkite and this is not a shooting unit. To get mileage out of Lerneans you have to use them as a pure melee unit and count the volkites as just bonus attacks before a charge (kind of like the new support squads). The unit leader is still a monster, but now you can get a similar unit with WS5 and fearless and combi-weapons for like 40 points less.

[Caillum]

For what it's worth, Lernaeans can still take Dreadclaws as DT's. The only other units that can are Legion Terminators, Headhunters and certain Sons of Horus units (Justaerin, Reavers, Command Squads, Seekers and Legion Dreadnoughts).

 

They're also Scoring, which is something, and aren't limited to only 5 models.

 

Still, I have mine magnetised to use as Siege Tyrants as well, so I'm getting plenty out of the models. :)

[defl0]

Yeah, the +1 AP is great for AL vets but I think a big change is that they can take combi weapons now, which opens up the option of sniper flamer squad infiltrating or outflanking in rhinos.