[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Baluc]

Since we are speaking about legion units earlier, I think Pride is actually horrible for the game. Having characters like Malaghurst and Horus move vets to troops is one thing. Letting anyone do it all the time, is a whole different beast. I think in the Armylist Forum 1 in 3 lists are Pride. Personally I would change it so it was terminators only and Elite legion Terminators. Even the 2 vp swing is a meh limitation when your opponent is take 10 tacs at 2 KP each anyway.

[hivey]

Whats the consensus of invictarus suzerains in a coils list?

[The laughing raven]

What would you be using them to achieve? How do imagine them benefitting your existing army?

[Caillum]

Whats the consensus of invictarus suzerains in a coils list?

Best unit in the game, so they're a strong CotH choice. :)

[hivey]

 

Whats the consensus of invictarus suzerains in a coils list?

Best unit in the game, so they're a strong CotH choice. :)

How are they the best unit? Ive not really read up on them.

[Terminus]

Defensively, they are effectively Tartaros terminators with a 2+/5++ who aren't bulky, so are much easier to transport.

 

Offensively, they are one of the extremely rare sources of initiative AP2 (paragon blade, blade of perdition, breacher charge [one use only], phoenix spears [on charge only], Eidolon [on charge only], mechanicum bots, Primarchs... I think that's all of them), and they automatically wound any toughness on 6s too.  Combine that with Chosen Warriors on every model, you can easily challenge out enemy sgts, carve them up like turkeys, and then proceed to murder their brethren while shrugging off wounds with a 2+ save.

 

Their other bonuses can be situational or awesome.  Depending on how you read Coils, "they have the Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) rule where relevant, not the Legiones Astartes rule of their parent Legion". If you take the "where relevant" part as intending for LA:AL to replace any instance of another Legion, then they grant all your boys +1 leadership within 12" and can be taken as a command squad (in which case they get a free banner for a fearless bubble).  Otherwise, if you just are replacing their core Legion rule and disregarding "where relevant" as superfluous FW language, you get a nice perk when taking allies (a very rare instance given the cost of Coils core lists).  In Ultramarines Legion, where you don't have these considerations, they are quite incredible.

[Caillum]

^ This. Suzerains gaining Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) works well, and not just for the Mutable Tactics. It will give them a re-roll on Sweeping Advances in the enemy deployment zone when running Dynat. It'll also means they have Preferred Enemy (Everything) when you field Alpharius.

 

Bloody good unit. Been trying to figure out how to model them to be suitably Alpha Legion.

[ak1508]

^ This. Suzerains gaining Legiones Astartes (Alpha Legion) works well, and not just for the Mutable Tactics. It will give them a re-roll on Sweeping Advances in the enemy deployment zone when running Dynat. It'll also means they have Preferred Enemy (Everything) when you field Alpharius.

 

Bloody good unit. Been trying to figure out how to model them to be suitably Alpha Legion.

 

I might write a CoH list with them. It's definitely a good way to buff up their melee! But it makes me kinda struggle to choose between the Justies and the Phoenix termies though.

 

For modelling - I would use the AL torsos and heads, for pads the HH pads would do nicely, plus maybe the studded pads from the Dynat (if you find a spare one) or any other character, where it looks fancier than the regular ones, but doesnt exactly give away what legion they are from. I would also sculpt the cloaks of greenstuff and then fit the backpacks on top, just to give them an extra edge and make them stand out more. For axes I would probably try and use the phalanx warder ones, or maybe the termie power axes, perhaps the Dark eldar ones? For shields, Scibor can help you there a lot. Some of their stuff can easily fit the AL theme and size-wise despite being mostly round, they can still go as boarding shields if you say so.

[Terminus]

Phoenix Terminators are trash in my humble opinion. They cost as much or more than most alternatives, have no ranged weapons whatsoever, and become mewling kittens after the first round of combat.  Beautiful models though.  Justaerin is another one of those units that is fantastic in their parent Legion, but they become worse in practically every way by becoming Alpha Legion (worse in melee, worse at range, worse at turning up from reserves).

 

I am currently making a fancy-pants "Ultramarines" Forge Lord and accompanying bodyguard of Suzerain.  I'm still playing about with the list, but I'm thinking something along these lines:

 

Shattered Legion: Alpha Legions/Ultramarines

Rite of War: Orbital Assault

Warlord Trait: Hammerstrike Assault

Mutable Tactic: Tankhunters

 

HQ: Dynat

HQ: "Ultra" Forgelord - powerfist/dagger, refractor field, cyber familiar, rad grenades

Elites: AL Apothecary in artificer armor

Elites: 8x Lernean Terminators, 2 chainfists, 5 powerfists, Harrowmaster with chainfist/dagger (go in Kharybdis with Dynat)

Elites: 8x Invictarii Suzerain, 2 thunder hammers (go in Dreadclaw with Forge Lord and Apothecary)

Elites: 10x Legion Veterans, 5 combi-meltas, Sgt. with power fist/dagger/artificer armor, Vet tactic: Marksmen, Legion Drop Pod

Troops: 10x Tactical Marines, Sgt with artificer armor, Legion Drop Pod

Troops: 10x Tactical Marines, Sgt with artificer armor (deep striking with Dynat's warlord trait)

Fast Attack: Dreadclaw

Fast Attack: Javelin Attack Speeder, multi-melta, cyclone, 2HK missiles

Heavy Support: Leviathan with claw/grav, phosphex, ceramite, dreadnought drop pod

Heavy Support: Kharybdis

 

Total: 2500 on the nose. I'm still playing around with the veteran squad, which was a late addition. I am tempted to drop a chainfist Lernean and a veteran for another apothecary for this unit, but not sure it's really needed given their role of nuking a vehicle on arrival, and then just making an nuisance of themselves with sniper fire.  The Javelin is also kind of a recent addition just because I always wanted one.  It's a shame they don't benefit from mutable tactics or Dynat's rules.

 

First turn sees arrival of dreadnought pod as a big distraction, and the Dreadclaw and Kharybdis trying to arrive where they are either out of range of enemy fire or can benefit from the dreadnought pod's shrouding for a 2+ jink.  Then the following turn there's a big charge of doom from the Suzerain and Lerneans.  Vets and Javelin come in to go after targets of opportunity, tactical squads go after objectives, keep their heads down. Interlocking Tactics can be very potent/abusable with a shooty army, but here there are really only boltguns that are in a position to take advantage of it. I mostly just want two big pretty melee units.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Terminus

[hivey]

Would assault marines to considered viable?

[Terminus]

Assault Marines are super viable, being only 15 more points than a Rhino/Pod Tactical Squad, with more upgrade options.  Ours in particular can abuse our deployment options (such as stacking Scout and Infiltrate using Mutable Tactics and Skorr's Master of Ambush), and you have good Sgt gear with shield/fist/dagger.  You just have to have a plan for them, and once geared up they are a good ~75 points more than the Tactical squad, so they shouldn't just be used as filler like Tacticals are.

[hivey]

What about 2 rhino tac squads and 2 assault squads as troops in a 5k coils list?

[ak1508]

What about 2 rhino tac squads and 2 assault squads as troops in a 5k coils list?

 

You playin somebody with a 5K CoH list? Now that's gonna take a while lol But to answer the question, at this size of pts I see no reason not to.

[hivey]

contemptor dreads and command squads can take dreadclaw pods as dedicated transports, right? im still hashing out my list for coils, but battlescribe does not have these options.

[Caillum]

The list of units that can take Dreadclaws as DT's is pretty short now: Lernaeans, Legion Terminators, Headhunters and certain Sons of Horus units (Justaerin, Reavers, Command Squads, Seekers and Legion Dreadnoughts).

[Terminus]

So anyone play with the new super Razorbacks we have in the 31st millennium? I've reshuffled my Coils list to drop a Siege Tyrant to have multimelta pintle mounts on all three Rhinos, we'll see if it's worth it.

[hivey]

What do you mean, razorbacks for 30k?

[Terminus]

With the new pintle options, 30K rhinos have most of the same armament as a Razorback (no plaslas, and only Blood Angels can take assault cannons), without sacrificing transport capacity or fire slots. Hence super Razorback.

[2gud2bbad]

HKM and MM while outflanking with Veterans in a armoured breakthrough List.

[Terminus]

I like the way you think.

 

 

Since we are speaking about legion units earlier, I think Pride is actually horrible for the game. Having characters like Malaghurst and Horus move vets to troops is one thing. Letting anyone do it all the time, is a whole different beast. I think in the Armylist Forum 1 in 3 lists are Pride. Personally I would change it so it was terminators only and Elite legion Terminators. Even the 2 vp swing is a meh limitation when your opponent is take 10 tacs at 2 KP each anyway.

 

 

This on the other hand... come on, let's be serious, only 2 of 6 missions carry Death Toll/Kill Points as a victory condition.  Then you're neglecting the fact that in those missions you give up 2 VPs (which is equivalent to achieving both of the usual secondary objectives) ON TOP of the ones you lose to kill points. Then add the fact that Alpha Legion already gives up an extra VP to attrition (so they have been losing for a while now in the books, lol), it can be a significant swing.  Primarch's Chosen also opens up veterans and terminators, and I feel is stronger.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Terminus

[ak1508]

Can anybody explain to me how many attacks does a sergeant have with the fist + dagger? Is his base profile supposed to include an extra attack in CC for having a pistol and CC weapon, or is it more like +1 for CC and pistol, +1 for the fist and +1 for the dagger = 5?? I got a tiny bit confused on that when I was sitting down and trying to review how many would I be getting. Please somebody, could you be kind and resolve that one for me? Thank you tons!

[shandwen]

Can anybody explain to me how many attacks does a sergeant have with the fist + dagger? Is his base profile supposed to include an extra attack in CC for having a pistol and CC weapon, or is it more like +1 for CC and pistol, +1 for the fist and +1 for the dagger = 5?? I got a tiny bit confused on that when I was sitting down and trying to review how many would I be getting. Please somebody, could you be kind and resolve that one for me? Thank you tons!

Unless it says in the profile the profile does not include attacks for having multiple cc weapons. So a sergeant with two attacks on his profile, a power first and power dagger, will have four attacks on the charge and three attacks normally.

[Charlo]

Can anybody explain to me how many attacks does a sergeant have with the fist + dagger? Is his base profile supposed to include an extra attack in CC for having a pistol and CC weapon, or is it more like +1 for CC and pistol, +1 for the fist and +1 for the dagger = 5?? I got a tiny bit confused on that when I was sitting down and trying to review how many would I be getting. Please somebody, could you be kind and resolve that one for me? Thank you tons!

 

2 Base + 1 for two matched weapons, as both the dagger and the fist have the specialist weapon rule.

 

+1 more if you charge, so you actually cheese out an extra powerfist attack over all other marine sergeants for 5 points ;)

[Terminus]

 

Can anybody explain to me how many attacks does a sergeant have with the fist + dagger? Is his base profile supposed to include an extra attack in CC for having a pistol and CC weapon, or is it more like +1 for CC and pistol, +1 for the fist and +1 for the dagger = 5?? I got a tiny bit confused on that when I was sitting down and trying to review how many would I be getting. Please somebody, could you be kind and resolve that one for me? Thank you tons!

 

2 Base + 1 for two matched weapons, as both the dagger and the fist have the specialist weapon rule.

 

+1 more if you charge, so you actually cheese out an extra powerfist attack over all other marine sergeants for 5 points

Actually Word Bearers can dish out the same number of attacks with a tainted weapon, which is available to all characters yet I never see in any WB army lists on this forum.

[Flint13]

^I've seen a couple but I think the power dagger is soundly better than the tainted weapon, at least when its wielded by an Astartes. ID is nice, but its got nothing going for it for 15pts outside of that and specialist weapon. No AP and a comparatively high points cost kinda hamstrings it a bit. 

 

Now on a rending cult demagogue with zealot and PE Loyalist, for 5pts... then it's a good buy :lol: