OmegaAlpharius Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 The 1 melta is for that 'just in case' moment and it has saved my bacon a fair few times! Can't take 2 plasmas as it is 1 in 5 and I have 9 marines plus 1 apothecary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caine 24th Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 I've got a general Alpha legion list building question. If we look at different categories of capability (anti-light/heavy tank, anti-air) the infantry platform doesn't seem optimal. I'm not questioning that waves of infantry look great in codex artwork. Yet, volleys of bolters can be underwhelming on the table top. So, if I want to kill a spartan it looks like I should take a primaris lighting w/kraken penetrators. If i want to kill a fire raptor/storm eagle it looks like I should take a deredeo. If I want a low-point distraction unit, a javelin looks awesome. But these units are available to everyone. Not taking infantry feels like wasting the marginal benefit of Alpha legion. 1) What is the tipping point of single-unit category optimization versus army-wide benefit optimization (e.g. mutable tactics)? When do you say, "look I know a lascannon heavy support squad isn't as good as other anti-tank choices, but I'm taking it to leverage the power of mutable tactics." Usually armies have stackable or maximizable benefits towards either assault or shooting, coming through legion special rules, characters, rites of war, and weapon options. At first glance, Alpha legion seems to be uniquely adaptable. But I wonder if mutable tactics can still be competent on the tabletop absent having 5+ infantry units that can utilize infiltrate or tank hunters. Scout, adamantium will, and move through cover can be great, but I'm not sure I see an army build. 2) Alpharius presents the second part of this. I often see Alpha lists which have very little infantry, but take Alpharius. His army-wide benefit of preferred enemy is good. In fact I've often wondered if Alpha legion could perform as a competent hand-to-hand combat army. In any case, this special rule combined with a mutable tactic seems like it could really maximize regular infantry. But, should I take a bunch of infantry in hopes of making them better--or am I just adding rules to something that's not really going to be very good anyway? At the same time, things like outriders and rapiers, by virtue of the strengths of their unit-type, benefit greatly from mutable tactics as well. Dan The Deamon 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kNation: Dorantana Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) Hey guys. Just starting and would love some feedback for my HH AL. My current inventory is the following 30 Tactical Marines (still on sprue cause I don't know what loadout to give them) 5 Tartaros Terminators 2 Mortis Contemptors (twin Autocannon) Dynat Skorr I know foots loggers are dead men so I'm leaning towards Rhinos. Perhaps a trio of Sicarians...that's around what... around 400pts? Alpharius I feel is too much of a points sink and currently I don't have the infantry numbers to hide him in. The Mortis Contemptors have my Sky fire covered while providing good and reliable S6 dakka. Dynat leans towads more Armor based units while Skorr open up your army to hide Alpharius in even your Vet squads due to him making them all troop choices. Any suggestions on what to pick up from here? Perhaps the 3 Legion Rhino combo from FW? Or since I have the BoP set already, should I grab a BoC set? I'm aiming for 1500-2000pts. Thank you :) Edited January 24, 2017 by 40kNation: Dorantana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Trio of sicarans? They can't be squadroned. You don't need more than one. Skorr is not warlord if Alpharius is present, so no vets. Non-dreadnought vehicles can't benefit from Dynat's buffs so I would disagree he leans towards armor. I find kheres Mortis Contemptors a bit short ranged, lascannons would probably serve better. I'd do the following with your 30 guys. 2x Artificer Sgt 1x Artificer Sgt with combi-plasma 2x Vexilla 2x Nuncio Vox 16x Bolter dudes 7x Plasma dudes That gives you two tactical squads with or without nuncio, and an 8-man plasma support squad. Rhinos would definitely be my next purchase in your shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civsmitty Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I'd like to promote the Locutarus as a viable Coils unit. The ability to shoot pistols twice upon deep striking, a slightly more accurate deep strike, and 2+ armor makes it for one tough unit. In a recent game it survived the return fire from two breacher squads and a seeker squad, before killing the seekers and breaking and running down a breacher squad in CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 (edited) I've tried them before, all with plasma pistols, and Alphy was in the army which made them quite nasty with their double-tap. They got focused pretty quickly after killing a bunch of termies. :P Edited January 26, 2017 by IronDrake28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 How did you get them all with Plasma pistols? Thought it was 1 in 5 (plus Strike Leader) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 How did you get them all with Plasma pistols? Thought it was 1 in 5 (plus Strike Leader) Sorry, I meant 3. I really should learn to be more specific. Whenever I say 'all' or 'maxed' I mean the most that can take a certain upgrade have taken it. It's just how me and mates refer to such things. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Ahh i see, thought i was missing out on some rule! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
civsmitty Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 I've tried them before, all with plasma pistols, and Alphy was in the army which made them quite nasty with their double-tap. They got focused pretty quickly after killing a bunch of termies. That's how I ran mine. I prefer quick, fast moving army elements with a solid fire base. My most recent madness was two Pred squadrons and a Sicaran Venator providing a base of fire for rhino-bound Tactical and Veteran squads. It is shocking how many shots those suckers can throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Never thought about Locutarus for CotH. Might need to give those guys a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galron Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I field my AL in rhinos with havoks. Expensive but a lot of fire support. I think my 2500 list(been using much of it as 40k chaos lately so don't remember if its 2500 or 3k) is two tac squads, two seeker squads, vet squad, tac support squad, 15 assault marines and Iron Havok squad for my stolen unit, a sicarian and a scorpius. All guys in rhinos, something that saved me against a genestealer cult that infiltrated all around me first turn and kept him from getting to my assault squad in the middle. Havok missiles flying everywhere. Still have a conundrum as to whether augery scanner stops ambush. Infantry is definitely the core of an AL army. I prefer as many bodies in boxes as I can fit and still bring the other tools I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramis K Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Power daggers for Terminator sgts. I know as specialist weapons they give +1 attack to power fist sgts, but as they're additional you can keep gun as well. Do I have this right - I can give Termie Sgt a lightning claw, a power dagger, and a combi bolters. Get the attacks of twin claws and keep shooting with combi for just 2 points more than a pair of claws. For a Lernean leader with 3 attacks base that could be 5 fist attacks in charge while keeping the volkite. Same for all members of command squad, right? If they're all characters... round of melta shots before charging in with 4 claw attacks each. Do jump packs and venom spheres give double hammer of wrath as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Legionnaire Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 -> Command squad members are not characters. -> A model cannot have a USR more than once, thus HoW applies only once and the Venom Spheres would be a waste on jump pack unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramis K Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Thx for clarification. It seems they changed command squads in the red book. They were characters back at book 1 I think. Now just infantry who can issue challenges, chosen warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 It wouldn't be a complete waste, since you don't get hammer of wrath if you use jump packs in the movement phase rather than assault. So you would always have HoW with jump packs and venom spheres. In book one the Banner bearer was the only one who was character, and everyone else were just chosen warriors. Most folks expected them to make them all characters, but instead they took away the character status from the bearer. I guess I see why, you can make some real nasty units with unique Legion gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 When looking for Turn 1 preferred enemy with Alpharius, what are people's preferred delivery method with him? If taking non-coils list, I'm thinking perhaps sticking him with Seekers in a dedicated Proteus. Gaining scout with LR can be handy and his cognis can benefit the lascannons. If taking Coils list I'm thinking Suzerains in a Phobos for pretty much same as above. Looking to stick him in a unit that can best benifit from his abilities whilst buffing other LA units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submarine Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Has anyone had any success with an aggressive assualt alpha legion army. Everyone seems to go the infiltrate route, but giving the whole army scout and moving dedicated transport vehicles an extra 12" forward seems very powerful. Take red butchers for more HTH power. Is it feasible to build an assault alpha legion list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Can't the Red Butchers also Infiltrate with dedicated transport for Turn 2 assault? More potent right? Spartan/Phobos infiltrating with Red Butchers. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 When looking for Turn 1 preferred enemy with Alpharius, what are people's preferred delivery method with him? If taking non-coils list, I'm thinking perhaps sticking him with Seekers in a dedicated Proteus. Gaining scout with LR can be handy and his cognis can benefit the lascannons. If taking Coils list I'm thinking Suzerains in a Phobos for pretty much same as above. Looking to stick him in a unit that can best benifit from his abilities whilst buffing other LA units. The only way to get preferred enemy with Alpharius turn one is to deploy him on the table turn one. So either just deploy him normally or disembark from whatever transport he is in. He also has a cognis signum so instead of firing his plasma blaster he could give his host unit BS5. Would probably be very decent in Orbital Assault as part of the first wave of pods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Submarine Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Can't the Red Butchers also Infiltrate with dedicated transport for Turn 2 assault? More potent right? Spartan/Phobos infiltrating with Red Butchers. Ouch. thats what i was thinking...they can actually do that anyway if joined by alpharius because he has scout. But I never read any alpha legion tactics that have suggested using the alpha legion as an aggressive assault army. The red butchers would get preferred enemy as well remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Can't the Red Butchers also Infiltrate with dedicated transport for Turn 2 assault? More potent right? Spartan/Phobos infiltrating with Red Butchers. Ouch. thats what i was thinking...they can actually do that anyway if joined by alpharius because he has scout. But I never read any alpha legion tactics that have suggested using the alpha legion as an aggressive assault army. The red butchers would get preferred enemy as well remember... Sorry didn't realise you were on about with Alpharius. He'd give them scout which is pretty good. Without Alpharius they could infiltrate. Edited February 3, 2017 by Dark Serpentine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Serpentine Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 When looking for Turn 1 preferred enemy with Alpharius, what are people's preferred delivery method with him? If taking non-coils list, I'm thinking perhaps sticking him with Seekers in a dedicated Proteus. Gaining scout with LR can be handy and his cognis can benefit the lascannons. If taking Coils list I'm thinking Suzerains in a Phobos for pretty much same as above. Looking to stick him in a unit that can best benifit from his abilities whilst buffing other LA units. The only way to get preferred enemy with Alpharius turn one is to deploy him on the table turn one. So either just deploy him normally or disembark from whatever transport he is in. He also has a cognis signum so instead of firing his plasma blaster he could give his host unit BS5. Would probably be very decent in Orbital Assault as part of the first wave of pods. Yea I was thinking that he could deploy with a units dedicated transport and scout move them up the board, and like you say, use his cognis to give the LR BS5 lascanons until they disembarked. You're right about Orbital though, Turn 1 drop pod with combi termies etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronDrake28 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) So. Should we start talking about stealing Space Wolves and Thousand Sons units yet. ;) Edited February 3, 2017 by IronDrake28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 When looking for Turn 1 preferred enemy with Alpharius, what are people's preferred delivery method with him? If taking non-coils list, I'm thinking perhaps sticking him with Seekers in a dedicated Proteus. Gaining scout with LR can be handy and his cognis can benefit the lascannons. If taking Coils list I'm thinking Suzerains in a Phobos for pretty much same as above. Looking to stick him in a unit that can best benifit from his abilities whilst buffing other LA units. The only way to get preferred enemy with Alpharius turn one is to deploy him on the table turn one. So either just deploy him normally or disembark from whatever transport he is in. He also has a cognis signum so instead of firing his plasma blaster he could give his host unit BS5. Would probably be very decent in Orbital Assault as part of the first wave of pods. Yea I was thinking that he could deploy with a units dedicated transport and scout move them up the board, and like you say, use his cognis to give the LR BS5 lascanons until they disembarked. You're right about Orbital though, Turn 1 drop pod with combi termies etc.. Note if he stays in the transport, no one gets preferred enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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