[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Dark Serpentine]

Oh I didn't realise about the PE and having to be outside transport? I just thought he had to be 'revealed' which you can choose to do or not... Edited February 3, 2017 by Dark Serpentine

[Withershadow]

Revealed and ON THE TABLE.

 

Models in transport are not on the table. :(

[Dark Serpentine]

Ahhhh I didn't realise...so yea drop pod turn 1 is a good shout...otherwise out the open with his chosen body guard. Thanks for that!

[Fallen11]

Oh boy, looking at some TS special units, I am just reminded how bad our ones are...

hmmmm, do I want ws5 and volkite or do I want 2W,force weapons,3+ inv, lv.2 psyker, shred on comby bolters....yea, :cuss all that I will stick with WS5 xD

 

super scouts with sniper stock,bs5 reroll to hit and wound + ignore cover, anyone? Because why would alpha legion found use for something like that, when you can get head hunters :D ...nah,I guess head hunters are still better :D

[Withershadow]

You forgot they pick their powers, so fiery form for 3++ Tartaros or Levitation haha. That said, I don't think I would take any of the Sons' units as rewards of treason.

 

The scouts are probably lower on the special unit spectrum than Lerneans, but headhunters are indeed propping up the bottom.

[Fallen11]

Well, you don't  really compare scouts to learnens, but I would still gladly take those scouts if we had them. Especially instead of head hunters. Hitting on 2, ignoring cover saves(bye bye jinking jetbikes), reroll to wound, not bad at all!

 

Well, yea, I am not that keen on rewards of treason units, but TS when looked as a whole, look really powerful. They will have :cuss load of warp charges, against which you have 0 defence. Actually, invisible terminator+hq/magnus deathstar will probably kill just about anything in game, while in return being pretty much unkilable.

[Withershadow]

Not really, they are armed with sniper rifles except 1/5. Jetbikes will be fine. I think their best use will be a minimum 155 point unit with a meltagun, meltabomb, and nuncio vox. Infiltrate and scout to position for the vox, and go after vehicles or fighting small Marine squads in combat since their power works in melee too.

 

Thankfully I don't have to worry about untouchable Magnus, my AoD group doesn't care for 40k-style shenanigans. I am sure that little interaction, and his 18 inch D nova will probably be FAQ'd or errataed or addressed by event organizers. This book looks to have worse editing than usual.

 

I would want to steal their Automata though. I4 power fists, IWND, shredding pinning maulers. Would need to take a librarian for your one consul though.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Withershadow

[Fallen11]

btw. since magnus and his squad is -1 to hit, when he casts invisibility he can't be hit?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

While some of the Thousand Sons special units might seem a tasty treat in a CotH list, one should keep in mine that they gain LA (AL) and lose their LA (TS), thus missing out on Signs & Portents  benefits.

[Withershadow]

Automata don't have Legiones Astartes. :D

[Caillum]

While some of the Thousand Sons special units might seem a tasty treat in a CotH list, one should keep in mine that they gain LA (AL) and lose their LA (TS), thus missing out on Signs & Portents benefits.

Yeah, this is true. Means no 3++ Sekhmet. But the TS units are still strong!

 

I too love the Castellax-Achea, even if they don't have LA. They look incredible and they would be very cool to use in a XXth list. :)

[Withershadow]

No 3+ Sekhmet, but can still get Fiery Form for 4+ Tartaros.

 

I am trying to figure out a list with a unit of the Achea, and a Praevian with two darkfire castellax.

[Caillum]

I am trying to figure out a list with a unit of the Achea, and a Praevian with two darkfire castellax.

Pretty sure you can't have both - need a Librarian to use Castellax-Achea, and you only get 1 Consul in Coils, so no Praevian.

 

Well, Castellax-Achea suck for us Alpha Legion players. It specifically says they require a Thousand Sons Psyker nearby to work properly, and "Rewards of Treason" does not cover this. Technically we can still take them, but they can't Charge, Run or Sweeping Advance. The Sons can keep their sexy Psi-robots for themselves.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Caillum

[Withershadow]

Allies it is. :D

[Balthamal]

The Deathsworn look fairly tasty. Good assault unit to cover some bases.

[Fallen11]

Why not take suazerin instead?

[Balthamal]

Because they're awful to paint 

[K3nn3rs]

Revealed and ON THE TABLE.

 

Models in transport are not on the table. :(

Isn't that a bit literal?

 

He's in play if he's in a transport (as long as he's also revealed).

[Withershadow]

A model in a transport is not on the table.  If they wanted to say it applies when he has been revealed, they would have just said that, but they specifically added "on the table". I would love to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

Q: I have a question regarding unit special rules that affect all

or some units within a certain range of a model or unit. How do

these interact with units inside Transports, and what happens

if the unit with the rule is inside a Transport?

A: When a unit embarks on a vehicle it is taken off the

battlefield and does not interact with anything on the

battlefield. However, certain rules may create exceptions

to this rule, with the most obvious examples being Fire

Points, psychic powers and Transports. If a unit’s rules

are meant to apply even when embarked on a Transport,

they will specify this

 

 

Another interesting FAQ tidbit:

 

Q: Do units disembarking from a Deep Striking Transport also

count as entering play via Deep Strike?

A: Yes.

 

 

Although I guess "entering play via Deep Strike" is still not the same as "having the ability to Deep Strike", or am I being too literal again? :P

Edited February 7, 2017 by Withershadow

[K3nn3rs]

I see where your coming from but I don't agree.

 

Too many of FW rules are sloppily written. For me he's on the table if he's in a transport as he's in a position to impose his will on his army so the bonuses that come with him can be used.

 

Happy to be proven wrong but I think this one is another rule that is open to interpretation.

 

Edit. Well there's the proof. I think they have so many rules now they don't take the time to consider the ramifications of some of their FAQ. Alpharius must be the single hardest Primarch to use effectively!

Edited February 7, 2017 by K3nn3rs

[TompiQ]

Alpharius must be the single hardest Primarch to use effectively!

Well, there's always the lion, the khan and the angel. :P But yes, Alpharius lacks the incredible beat stick potential of other primarchs. He scales best of all though, once you reach a certain points threshold army-wide preferred enemy everything is insane. Not that it helps in lower points however...

[Withershadow]

Well, the FAQ specifically states a model in a transport is not on the battlefield and is not interacting with any models unless stated otherwise. But that's a fair point.

 

1. Could be FW speak for deployed, in which case it doesn't matter if he's in a transport or not.

2. The dreadnought drop pod is also another instance of a model that's "taken off the battlefield" yet can be shot (and somehow assaulted in subsequent rounds).

3. He would be the only Primarch who can't buff his boys while in a transport.

 

Would love to be wrong, but RAW....

 

 

Lorgar's buffs also apply only when he's on the table, but the rules specify "(and not being carried by a transport)". Since Alpharius doesn't have the same qualification, I assume it's fine as long as he's alive and not in reserve (or hiding).

Edited February 8, 2017 by Withershadow

[Submarine]

Sorry to go off topic, but I am in the process of building my first alpha legion list, 2500pts and have a few queries that I would appreciate expert players' thoughts on.

 

I get that the alpha legion pretty much work on the principle of stacking their rules for maximum benefit. So I planned an army with Dynat and a saboteur as my HQs, with Alpharius as a LOW. My logic was to use dynats rules to maximise the effectiveness of the saboteur, and use Alpharius preferred enemy buff to help destroy vehicles stacking with Dynats buffs to units in opposition deployment zone. So my list has maxed out on units with the legion astartes rules to further benefit from alpharius rules. tactical and support squads with meltas and plasmas, assault squad, still debating on the unit to steal from an opponent. I am planning to going for the infiltrating special rule and taking coils rite so i get the 4+ rerollable to go first which stacks with alpharius. Does alpharius have to be the warlord, I couldn't find it anywhere in his rules.

 

However, having read some list opinions in forums, a lot of people say you shouldnt take dynat and alpharius, and some say dont bother taking alpharius at all. What am I missing, he gives army wide benefits and seems pretty hand in combat himself. Dynat also seems to be considered not worthy of taking by some. I also notice people recommending alternative rites such as primarch or pride, but alpharius synergises well with coils especially with the stacking buffs to seizing the initiative.

 

Finally, I have some assault marine models, and was considering taking them, they are a bit lacklustre in 40k, I was wondering if they are more effective in 30k.

 

Thanks for any feedback, it is much appreciated. 

[Balthamal]

In response:

 

Yes Alpharius must always be the Warlord

 

Dynat and Alpharius don't particularly synergise well, and certainly not with coils. Dynat heavily favours Orbital Assault whilst Alpharius plays in tune with a more infantry focuses force and Coils really boils down to choosing what special unit you're going to steal from elsehwhere. As for Alpharius combat potential, he's decent but nowhere near the level of the other Primarchs, granted he'll walk through most units but stick an invulnerable save blob in front of him and they'll tarpit him or worse down him. Personally, don't base a list around seizing. If your opponent knows anything about Coils/Big A they'll just choose to go second anyway and that benefit is wasted, equally so the reserves disruption if they mass deploy.

 

Assault Marines are pretty good in 30K and obviously benefit enormously from both Dynat (if they've got melta bombs or Fists/Hammers) and Alph (PE everything is awesome)

 

Might be helpful to toss up a list so we can see where you're thought processes are going

[Submarine]

thanks for that, from what you say I have got my list a bit wrong, but I will show you where I am. Its 2500pts and so far I have:

 

Dynat

Saboteur

 

contemptor dread with dual TL volkite culverin

 

14 assault marines (3 plasma pistols), sergeant (melta bombs, plasma pistol, artificer armour, power dagger)

 

[on the assualt marines you mention taking melta bombs, I thought you could only place one no matter how many models in the unit have them, is that correct]

 

14 tactical marines, vexilla, nuncio vox, sergeant (combi plasma, artificer armour)

14 tactical marines, vexilla, nuncio vox, sergeant (combi plasma, artificer armour)

5 tactical support with melta guns, sergeant (artificer armour, melta bombs), rhino with dozer blade

5 tactical support with melta guns, sergeant (artificer armour, melta bombs), rhino with dozer blade

5 tactical support with plasma guns, sergeant (artificer armour, melta bombs), rhino with dozer blade

 

Alpharius

 

ROW: Coils

 

I am not happy with this list but I have tried to take as many legion astartes to make use of PE, and will use infiltrate to get as many units into the opponents deployment zone including the saboteur to make us of Dynats special rule alongside the PE that Alpharius gives them.

 

It feels like a small list, and spending 700 odd points on independent characters feels steep to me. But the Dynat + saboteur combination could easily wreck a vehicle on their own. Not to mention the buffs dynat gives units with his cognis.

 

I wanted to get terminators in there, either standard or possibly red butchers, tyrant, firedrake...but it seemed quite costly. Basically  I am a bit lost!

Edited February 9, 2017 by Submarine