[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[Fallen11]

I would not really count on dynant combo to mean kills,. On my last game, I dropped 3 contemptors, bs5 2x meltaguns, you would expect them to blow something up? Yea...non of them got 4+ on what happens rolls,and with bs5 I missed 2 or 3 times from 6 shots. 3 pens from melta veterans on levyathan that passed his 4++...1/2/3 so he lives too, had to spend 10 comby plasmas to finish it off. Saboteur came, he got something like 2 on his pen. Dynant in combat with cortus had to spend 3 rounds to finish him off, sarget with pf was unable to hit single shot.

 

But yeah, if I took dynant, I would not bother with alpharius, or vice versa. Too many points in charachters. You are also light on AT if enemy has ceraamite. 1 levyathan can probably eat half of your army. How do you deal with something like ceramite/flare shield spartan with something beefy inside(if saboteur fails)? How do you deal with thud gunns? If they have phosphex on top of that, that means 1 dead unit each turn, while you will have hard time to kill it.

 

Maybe try to put in veterans? They work great, either as tank hunter or sniper.

Seekers are also golden with alpharius.

 

If you want to add some special terminators, you need spartan more or less. Walkign them is not really an option in my oppinion, and DS is kinda risky if you scatter.

btw. I would rather have 10 man tactical in rhino, than 14 man. This way you are more mobile, and have better protection vs all those heresy blasts.

ALso, rhino+multi melta works great. 15pts investment well worth it, since then opponent can't really ignore it anymore. And you can easily hunt vehicles that don't have ceramite. With comby bolter it's easy to ignore you and not worry. about rhino killing anything unless it gets really lucky

[K3nn3rs]

Why are you taking Coils? You're not making use of the best benefit that the RoW provides; stealing a legion specific unit from another legion!

 

You could just run the normal FOC with this list but drop the third compulsory troops tax for other units/ options.

Edited February 10, 2017 by K3nn3rs

[Angmarred]

I'm sure this has been answeee before but, does Alpharius need to physically be on the table for his PE everything to work? Or can he be in a transport?

[Submarine]

Hi, thanks for the comments.

 

 

I don't own a spartan but my intention was to get the terminators up the table using outflank. Getting a spartan makes the unit very expensive. 

 

I am not such a fan of the seekers. A reroll at BS5 isnt a big statistical jump, it is more efficient on WS4, and I am not a great fan of the seekers special ammunition to be honest. My problem with veterans is that with combi weapons they are a one shot unit, and then to tool them up for more than that makes them very expensive. Similarly, I expect the rhinos to go pretty quickly so I am not a great fan of upgrading them.

 

This list is very much a work in progress, so the intention is to take Coils and take a legion specific unit, i was debating tyrants, iron havocs, red butchers, gal, but I can't get my head around how this list will work, should it be more shooty or close combat orientated. 

[Dark Serpentine]

I would say that maybe you're under estimating Seekers with PE.

Remember, preferred enemy is only rerolling dice rolls of a '1', on both to hit and wound. 

Not rerolling 'failed hits' which yea, would make sense on BS4 as your getting more rerolls and therefore bang for your buck. 

 

Seekers with BS5, hitting on 2's, rerolling 1's from PE mean they are hitting almost all the time. Give them a few combi plas, which are expensive for one shot, but they can make a big impact on entry, either via drop pod, deep strike (with dynats reroll scatter) or Proteus/rhino. Couple with the fact your then wounding on 2's a lot, rerolling 1's, your dishing out a lot of hits and lot of wounds. 

 

Once combi ammo is spent, they have pretty good Scorpius rounds which can hurt a lot. So not completely useless after using combi weapons. 

I'm sure this has been answeee before but, does Alpharius need to physically be on the table for his PE everything to work? Or can he be in a transport?

 

Withershadow kindly answered this for me recently on my own army list. 

Aplharius has to be on the table, 'revealed' and not inside a transport for PE to work. 

Sucks right. 

[Withershadow]

Yep :(

Edited February 11, 2017 by Withershadow

[Fallen11]

This rule has 0 sense. There you are on battlefield, you don't hate people, but suddenly on whole another part of battlefield alpharius steps out of transport, no one can even see him, because he is in middle of nothing, and suddenly you start to hate everyone around you, lol. Then next turn papa alphi enters back in his tank and suddenly magicaly you feel frendly towards everyone around you, and you don't hate people anymore.

 

Unless he is in hidden deployment, to me that is bs, that if he is in transport he doesn't buff your army, and he can't infiltrate as cherry on top of it. Best thing would be to buy alpharius and stick him in corner, this way you can have nice fat expensive prefered enemy upgrade. Yey:D

[Dark Serpentine]

Yea this pretty much sums up the logic of it!

This got me thinking that he wouldn't be too bad with a unit of Tyrants.

Deploy on table with unit in your back line, in good cover. He'd give them bs5, PE, and +1 to cover (so maybe +3 cover save). Chuck in a siege breaker for tank hunter and you have a pretty solid unit the enemy has to deal with. When they finally get to charge you, Alpharius gives unit counter attack. You'd have to take infiltrate mind, but that's no biggie really.

[Fallen11]

Except this unit costs 1000+ pts, so they might have hard time earning pts back. But they are very survivable if alphy can tank. Btw how do you get alphy in coils? He has to be hidden in this unit? Because he does not have infiltrate and can't be taken in any other way in coils?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

I never pick Infiltrate as my Mutable Tactic when running CotH.

Alpharius always rides with Seekers, Tacs or Tac Vets in their respective dedicated transport.

 

To be honest, CotH  only makes sense as a RoW if you're quite aware which other Legion unit you might want to steal and are building your force accordingly, or when you run it to max out reserve manipulation (which is what I prefer to do).

In almost any other case Alpharius is better of with Primarch's Chosen, PotL or even Armoured Spearhead.

[Fallen11]

Poor alpharius, not only is he dead, he is not skilled enough to infiltrate, nor buff troops if he rides in transport. He is weakest primarch in 1v1, has one of the worst special units in game,exodus is also quite mediocre(ap3/4 is not gonna kill anyone important in legion list, since everyone and their grandmother who is worth anything has 10pts artifice armor)...I almost feel sad :D

[Submarine]

Surely COTH is worth taking with Alpharius for giving PE to a powerful unit from another Legion but also for the excellent opportunity to go first. Going first with infiltrate or Scout army wide surely is powerful. Alpharius can join a unit in a dedicated transport and that vehicle can make an extra 12" move which more than makes up for him not having infiltrate. Edited February 11, 2017 by Submarine

[Withershadow]

Alpharius goes through units more efficiently than almost any other Primarch, so he still has his place.  But yes, his rules are a morass of contradictions (appropriate I guess?) that make him difficult to utilize.

 

I don't like him in COTH at all unless we're talking 3000 points, and even then you're probably better off with a Typhon.

[Jarkaira]

This is how Alpha Legion players park their Rhinos :)

 

http://kuofi.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Viikkokatsaus-12-8-e1486807537216.jpg

[Fallen11]

How is alphi joining unit in transport, since he does not get transport for himself? To be able to take unit, unit has to have infiltrate or transport, alpharius has non of those. Unless you give him comand squad.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

How is alphi joining unit in transport, since he does not get transport for himself? To be able to take unit, unit has to have infiltrate or transport, alpharius has non of those. Unless you give him comand squad.

 

Read my above post.

 

He rides with a unit (attached to them, not hidden !) in THEIR dedicated transport. There just has to be room for him, that's all.

 

Also, I agree with Withershadow: CotH at 2.000 pts. is better of with Dynat or your custom Master of the Legion. Alpharius is fine in CotH at 3.000 pts.

[Submarine]

And at 2500 pts?

[Withershadow]

How is alphi joining unit in transport, since he does not get transport for himself? To be able to take unit, unit has to have infiltrate or transport, alpharius has non of those. Unless you give him comand squad.

Alpharius is not "a squad" and a command squad doesn't change that since they are a separate unit. Edited February 12, 2017 by Withershadow

[Withershadow]

Poor alpharius, not only is he dead, he is not skilled enough to infiltrate, nor buff troops if he rides in transport. He is weakest primarch in 1v1, has one of the worst special units in game,exodus is also quite mediocre(ap3/4 is not gonna kill anyone important in legion list, since everyone and their grandmother who is worth anything has 10pts artifice armor)...I almost feel sad :D

A lot of truth here, Alpharius is expensive for what he does and all our non-Autilon/Armilus special units are basically crap, but those two ICs and mutable tactics/Coils gives us enough of a unique identity.

 

And for what it's worth, the Primarchs were written before the FAQ, so only Lorgar sucked at buffing troops in a transport.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Withershadow

[Fallen11]

Last game Alpharius basically lost in cc vs no name custodes hq,LOL. This is so redicilous, primarch gets beaten by some no name guy. You hit him on 4, wound on 3,he has 3++ that rerolls and EW. Basically you need 8/9 wound to make a single wound. He also has more attacks than alpharius, same initiative, and either s6, or just give him master craft gauntlet for s10,xD

Dunno why Emperor bothered going with Angel vs horus, when he only needed to send 2 custodes captains, they would killed horus and retinue he had,

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Given he had EW it sounds like a Tribune (requiring you to run a 2.000+ pts. primary detachment of Custodes) and not a Captain.

 

I think at that points level and up it's fair to include a model that can beat a Primarch in close combat.

Although the Tribune is 300 pts. as opposed to a Primarch's cost.

Also remember that Alpharius is simple the weakest of the Primarchs in single combat. *shrug*

 

But yeah, the re-rollable 3++ is excessive. I find it quite a bit hilarious that the Tribune is can utilize both the Praesidium Shield and a Paragon Spear at the same time.

Spears should be two-handed in my opinion, or at least the Paragon Spear should get the same limitations as a Guardian Spear when used with a shield.

[Fallen11]

yea tribune, my bad. I don't know yet how each of them is called. Well, when you consider Primarch, you kinda don't expect that some random tribune is supposed to be able to kick his ass. They are supposed to be gods of war,pinacle of Emperor engineering, you don't give leadership of legion to some random dude.
Alpharius is weakest in CC, but compare tribune in cc vs Dorn, he has 4 attacks, and he will miss 2 hitting on 4,xD, that means 2 wounds per phase -> you need around 4 phases or 2 game rounds for dorn to give him 1 wound, in return, this guy hits dorn 3-4 times,and wound 2-3 times, and gives him wound each round.
Ferrus manus also has less attacks,3++ which is better than dorn, but 3++ which you reroll is still better than 3++ and iwnd if I am not mistaken.

And so on, basically there is no primarch that won't need to put in serious effort in order to beat this guy, if he even manages before game ends. If in meantime retinue of tribune doesn't take care of primarchs retinue and pummels primarch along with tribune to the ground. ANd they will probably take care of the primarch retinue, being ws5, 3w t5 5++ S10 A3 master crafted gauntlets,-1 to hit from shields.

[Jarkaira]

Well they are Custodes and they are in custody of those random primarchs who had insulted their father and must be punished accordingly.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm not sure that it's surprising that a custodes routine is going to beat up pretty much any primarch's routine, they are supposed to be even more elite than marines and they pay the price for those increased stats. You just can't face them in an even fight before they've suffered a fair amount of casualties from shooting. 

[Withershadow]

Spears should be two-handed in my opinion, or at least the Paragon Spear should get the same limitations as a Guardian Spear when used with a shield.

Paragon spears are a type of guardian spear and the charge profile cannot be used if wielding a shield. So you got your wish already.