[HH1.0] 30k Alpha Legion Tactics

[K3nn3rs]

Aren't they still AP2 S5 at initiative though?

Still a nasty combination!!

Looks cool though.

[Withershadow]

Aren't they still AP2 S5 at initiative though?

Still a nasty combination!!

Looks cool though.

Paragon is S+1/2 so S6 when not charging (or always with a shield)

[civsmitty]

Might I suggest a change of use of your Alpharius? 

 

As tempting as it is to throw a Primarch headlong into combat...don't. Use him to scoot around and tempt your enemy into going for him while the remainder of your army annihilates his. You set the tempo for the game, and can force an opponent into making mistakes. It's like chess, or poker: play the game, sure, but play your opponent first.

 

I've killed Guilliman by tempting him with a Hidden Deployment Alpharius (a tactic I love, as it forces your opponent into a defensive posture. ESPECIALLY with massed outflanking or podding units). I used a Normally Deployed Alpharius to tempt Lorgar into chasing him while my army killed the Word Bearers to the last man. 

 

Set the tempo, make the other guy react to you, win the game. 

[Dark Serpentine]

Yea this is basically along the lines I'm thinking of recently. He's not a beast in combat, but can buff the army enough to chip away at the enemy until weakened enough to defeat.

[TemujinZero]

Alpharius is not weak in cc - he's a beast thanks to the pale spear with its instant death. This is admittedly useless in my dad vs your dad primarch combat, but for all the attention these match-ups get, most end up in stalemates that are not resolved within the timeframe of an actual game. Primarchs want to be in combat with high value enemies that they can bully with high initiative ap2, and Alpharius is no slouch in this regard. Your wasting him if you're holding him back from the front lines just because he isn't Angron. Every character and unit needs to pick their battles carefully. He's also probably the best buffer primarch, and has some nasty tricks that more than make up for any cc deficiencies relative to other primarchs.

 

The shield tribune is 300 points of pure cc perfection, and will happily tank any primarch for as long as he likes. Alpharius will do wonders against any other custodes infantry, but the herald needs to be avoided at all costs. I've done some math on these guys, and they comfortably beat almost anything short of knight titans single handed. They can kill 10 cataphractii terminators with powerfists over 6 rounds of combat while taking only 1.5 wounds in return. They don't die, but they have no assault transports, so just kill their buddies and keep your distance.

[Withershadow]

Shield Tribune is 250 points, not 300. All he needs to take is cyber familiar, digilasers, shield and Paragon spear. Skoria could probably take one down, but anyone else will struggle to kill him even if given a whole game to do so.

 

Angron actually dies like a dog on the front lines due to his weak defensive profile. Alpharius and Angron are best used the same way, running through the back lines bullying enemy grunts and vehicles. Some WE players even drop Angron in a dreadclaw by himself.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Actually, he's 275 pts. since you forgot the 25 for the Tribune upgrade. 285 pts. if we add a Teleportation Transponder and Melta Bombs.

[Fallen11]

Well, you can run with alpharius around, but unless he is alone, in which case, he is not that hard to kill, you have to invest in retinue&transport. And who is to say, enemy will go after Alpharius, why would he? He can just focus on mission and killing rest of your army, while you end up with nice chuck of points that just sits,does nothing meaningfull and tempts your opponent who just ignores them, and kills rest of your stuff? ANd while Alphi is in transport, he does not give you prefered enemy, meaning , you have to walk him around if you want buff,meaning, he is slow and easily ignored.

Custodes are very mobile if they want to be. They might not be able to charge from transport atm, but will be when they get theyr flying spartan which they will. But still, quite mobile with excellent transports&bikes&tanks.

[Balthamal]

Then you need to be thinking of ways to use him that WILL goad an opponent - throw him at units that don't sit comfortably behind a 3++/4++, put him in positions where the enemy has no choice but to do something about him without risking terminal consequences. He's pretty nifty with anti-tank as well given the Pale Spear has AP1 Armourbane, ok he's S6 but still that's nothing to sniff at short of a Spartan

[civsmitty]

What Balthamal said. You can ignore him, but at your own peril. He's not Angron, but he still is a damned Primarch with an AP1 ID spear. Left to his own devices, he can wreck an enemy's line fairly easily. 

 

I really don't understand why people don't utilize HIdden Deployment more; the loss of PE for a single turn is absolutely worth it to pop up in a previously dismissed unit. Plus, your opponent won't know WHICH seemingly basic unit is housing a Primarch. Could cause him to spread his fire out, rather than focusing on the Lernaeans on his flank.

 

Stop thinking like a meta player and start thinking like an Alpha Legionnaire. 

[Withershadow]

Well, you can run with alpharius around, but unless he is alone, in which case, he is not that hard to kill, you have to invest in retinue&transport. And who is to say, enemy will go after Alpharius, why would he? He can just focus on mission and killing rest of your army, while you end up with nice chuck of points that just sits,does nothing meaningfull and tempts your opponent who just ignores them, and kills rest of your stuff? ANd while Alphi is in transport, he does not give you prefered enemy, meaning , you have to walk him around if you want buff,meaning, he is slow and easily ignored.

Custodes are very mobile if they want to be. They might not be able to charge from transport atm, but will be when they get theyr flying spartan which they will. But still, quite mobile with excellent transports&bikes&tanks.

FW specifically stated not to hold your breath for any flying spartans.  Really, your overbearing negativity is both unwarranted and unwelcome.  Even if the situation was as dire as you say, and it's not, you're not offering any solutions, just moping and moaning.  No one cares to see that.

 

Alpharius murders everything in the Custodes list in one round except the eternal warrior tribune, who can tank vs. pretty much any Primarch for the duration of the game (assuming turn 2 or 3 engagement) due to a re-rollable 3++ save and -1 to hit.  If a model on foot is so easily ignored, why aren't you ignoring the Tribune?  Do you somehow feel your manhood is diminished when your big bad HQ can't curbstomp their big bad HQ?  Just stop.

[Lord Asvaldir]

One point I've noticed about the problem with Alpharius supposedly not being able to grant PE while in a transport, if you play an orbital assault list that problem is solved fairly easily. Just have him show up in a drop pod turn one/two, so he won't be sitting in a transport and you won't have to deal with the mobility problem since he'll be in the center of enemy lines. Plus PE is a really powerful rule for units that shine in orbital assault lists like any unit with plasma weapons.

[Withershadow]

That's fair, although folks usually like to use Alpharius in melee, which means dreadclaw, which means he's still in the transport. :P

 

Popping into a regular pod (which I guess would have to be Veterans) is an option, and lets him either fire his plasma blaster or grant a unit BS5.  That unit is going to take a lot of fire on the opponent's turn. :D

[Jarkaira]

It could be that the enemy is afraid of shooting at the unit as they think that weird idea has to be a trap and will bounce their bullets back or something :)

[Withershadow]

I would love that rule for Alpharius! Take a leadership test if targeting Alpharius and his unit, if failed shoot at nearest friendly target instead. :D

[Lord Asvaldir]

That's fair, although folks usually like to use Alpharius in melee, which means dreadclaw, which means he's still in the transport.

 

Popping into a regular pod (which I guess would have to be Veterans) is an option, and lets him either fire his plasma blaster or grant a unit BS5.  That unit is going to take a lot of fire on the opponent's turn.

 

Yeah nothing you can do about that, but bs5 plasma with preferred enemy is going to light something up real bad. It even seems like it would be fairly easy for AL to have 2-3 units al with bs5 and preferred enemy dropping in turn one which is certainly going to leave you with less stuff firing back at you. Plus alpharius might not do anything the turn he drops in, but next turn even if most of the squad he's with is dead he'll probably be reasonably close enough to assault something.  

[Withershadow]

I would probably put him with Veterans rather than a support squad.  After using up their combi-weapons, Veterans drop on the priority list, while plasma support squads are pretty much always enemy numero uno (especially with preferred enemies).  This would set a catch-22 for the opponent whether to fire and try to get some damage on Alpharius (and kill 12-point veterans to accomplish this), or go after the plasma support squad and leave Alpharius unmolested.  I guess a solid core start would be:

 

Alpharius + Veterans in pod

Support squad in pod

Leviathan in pod for distraction carnifex (and a third priority target to keep enemy trying to decide what to go after)

2x tactical squads in pods

 

Not sure which compulsory HQ would be the best here, sadly the Master of Signal is a support officer now.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Plus veterans have the option to help Alpharius in an assault so you make a good point, vets are a better escort for him. 

 

Even though Dynatt is a fairly pricey character considering you already have a primarch, he brings a lot of benefits to a drop pod list, I might still consider taking him. Plus he also has the benefit of having a cognis signum for another plasma unit. 

 

It would be awesome to fit in 7 pods, but with a primarch at 2500 I doubt that would be possible, what you suggest seems pretty reasonable and a very potent alpha strike wave. 

[Withershadow]

Dynat is my default HQ for orbital assault, but unless we're talking really high points, spending over 600 points on force-multiplier HQs feels like too much.

 

7 pods is tough no so much due to the Primarch, but due to the fact that you need an anchor unit. Best choice for that is probably Sky Slayer jetbikes. For HQs, I'd lean towards a Vigilator with a jump pack, who would give the unit both Scout and Stealth, or a cheapo Delegatus on a jetbike.

 

 

So

 

HQ - Vigilator ~145

Elites - 8x Marksmen Veterans, 1x heavy flamer/5x combi-plasma, 2x axes, fist/dagger/AA, pod - 286

Troops - Tactical squad with CCWs, vexilla, fist/dagger/AA, pod - 220

Troops - Tactical squad with CCWs, vexilla, fist/dagger/AA, pod - 220

Troops - 8x Plasma Support Squad, AA/combi-plasma, pod - 295

Heavy Support - 5x Culverin Jetbikes (non-MM weapons are priced idiotically for these guys, but with Preferred Enemy and Tank Hunter, I think the culverins are worth it) - 305

Heavy Support - lance/drill Leviathan in pod ~435

LOW - Alpharius - 415

 

Points may not be 100% since going off the top of my head. About 160-170 points left over. Can take a pair of javelins to finish it the list off, or take 4x culverin jetbikes and 4x MM jetbikes, or some mix of both.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Withershadow

[Rainbow Frog]

Hi there, I'm looking to get into 30K and still haven't quite decided on a Legion.

The Alphas appeal to me somewhat due to their focus on elite units infilitrating and stacking USRs.

 

How does this look for a 1000 Point List?

 

 

HQ:

 

• Autilon Skorr: 125 Points (Rite of War: Chosen Duty)

 

Troops:

 

Legion Veterans: 230 Points

• 10x Legion Veterans

• Legion Vexilla

• 2x Heavy Bolters with Suspensor Webs

• Sargent with Artificer Armour and Power Axe

 

Legion Veterans: 230 Points

• 10x Legion Veterans

• Legion Vexilla

• 2x Heavy Bolters with Suspensor Webs

• Sargent with Artificer Armour and Power Axe

 

Fast Attack:

 

Legion Seekers: 415 Points

• 5x Legion Seekers

• 5x Combi-Plasmas

• Sargent with Artificer Armour

• Land Raider Proteus Transport with Armoured Ceramite

 

 

The idea is to use Skorr's Warlord Trait pick to get Master of the Ambush and Mutable Tactics to grant scout, allowing for the three squads to infiltrate and scout. The Seekers have enough Alpha damage to confidently kill most things I would expect to see at 1000 points and the Vets would likely take Snipers to blat whatever else is there.

 

Does this seem solid/fluffy?

How does this look for a 1000 Point List?

[Dark Serpentine]

Im no expert, but cant see much wrong with it, its tricky at a low point level.

For slightly larger points value games, you could also think about taking Infiltrate as your Mutable Tactic, and if you can squeeze in the points, an Explorator Augury Web for the proteus. This combined with Divide to conquer Trait could be nice. Everyone can infiltrate and the proteus can make an additional scout move, plus it plays with your enemies reserve rolls (-2) which is nice and Alpha Legion like.  

[civsmitty]

I may be remembering incorrectly, but I believe the Seeker Strike Leader cannot upgrade to carry a combi-weapon.

 

 

Just dug through old emails and have a confirmation from FW; he can take a plasma pistol, but no combi.

[Dark Serpentine]

Yea its pretty clear he cant in the red book...but i also completely missed that..after spending a while modelling the Strike Leader with combi plas!  

I guess a Plasma pistol will have to do.

[Withershadow]

Seekers are wasting points on combi weapons IMO. You pay a lot of points for all those special rules already. Stick the combi-weapons on vets and terminators. :P

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm not sure about that, bs5 with preferred enemy against one target is pretty potent and really good when used with plasma guns. Seekers special ammo just means they are still useful even after using their combis.