Ulfir Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Hi Guys and Girls I'm currently in the process of fleshing out my Blood Angels successor fluff and wanted some feedback for an idea I had regarding the manifestation of the black rage. Instead of the usual fury/anger/hate I want my marines to start crying uncontrollably as they relive Sanguinius' pain (possibly with tears of blood, I haven't decided yet) and stay in a state of hysterical tears till they encounter an enemy, then they go completely berserk. Kind of like the witches in left 4 dead except they can still function while crying. What do you think? Is it feasible or is it just a little too "unique snowflake"? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith776 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I think it's so crazy it might just work! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3704270 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesor Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 If you describe it in a way that doesn't make them sound emo, sure. The tears of blood seems a lot more brutal and fitting for the grim darkness, etc. This would presumably lead to easy identification of the Black rage within the Chapter. You'd need to think about how this might affect the numbers and organisation of their Death Company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3704341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine_Knight Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Do Space Marines have functioning tear ducts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3704343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesor Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 They are humans originally, and as far as I'm aware, none of the implants prevent their tear ducts from working. Humans need tears to keep their eyes clean and whatnot, anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3704347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine_Knight Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 That sounds reasonable. In that case I like the tears of blood idea. Except it seems like the uncontrollable tears would make it hard to see well. So would that mean that they may not always be able to tell friend from foe? And the hysteria might make them even more eager to get to grips with the enemy and thus even harder to corral/control. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3704388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I think it's a great idea. I'd say that their death company appears morose until they throw themselves into battle... and continue to weep tears of blood as they tear their enemies limb from limb! I'd even go for it with the death company color scheme - what if their helmets were black, but with a red line flanking the center line on each side, so that each eye was in the center of a line? And maybe the normal marines had black lines in the same place (with the typical Blood Angels color coded helmets). You could call your chapters the Mourners. And yes, I think the bloody tears should be the first sign of the Black Rage. I can totally see the sad/horrifying moment when one Mourner looks across at his brother to see the bloody tears welling up on his face. And then the afflicted brother lifts a hand to his own face and touches the tears and comes away bloody... and his face contorts. He knows. He knows that he's doomed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3704397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesor Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Yeah, the idea definitely has great potential, you just need to think through how it impacts the chapter on a wider scale, in particular their interactions with other Imperial forces, and other BA successors in particular. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3704650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlan Skorus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I very much like this idea. Death Company crying tears of blood while they rip people apart with their bare hands is pretty awesome. Would they wear helmets though? I can imagine them being pretty inconvenient once blood gets smeared all over the inside of it. As Nemesor said, how would this impact their relations with certain groups? The only thing more terrifying than facing aforementioned Death Company would be to be a little lasgun-weilding infantry who's superhuman allies just started crying. Blood. I gather there is already some suspicion from elements of the Inquisition (predictably) over the whole Sanguinor and collective-psychic-manifestation thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3705310 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfir Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 Ok I've taken what you've all said on board and have come up with 2 ideas that expand on my original idea. I think I'm going to do away with the crying hysterically as the more I think about it the more it doesn't fit with the feel of what an astartes should be. Morose yes, melancholic yes, crybaby...not so much. I was going to use the sanguinary guard death masks as my death company helms and paint the red tears on them but I like the idea of working the tears onto all the helmets, like a mark of respect (or revulsion) to those afflicted. Anyway on with the ideas. Idea 1: Expanding more on the chapter in general, they never remove their helms in the presence of people from outside the chapter. This is due to a slight mutation of the haemastamen and occulobe implants affecting bloodflow in the sclera (white bit of the eye) giving them constant bloodshot/red eye (not solid red eyes as I think that'll just be cheesey). Knowing that this will be met with distrust by outsiders the chapter hides their faces behind their helms. This could go on to sow a seed of suspicion amongst other imperial organisations, a friend of mine suggested they could be called "The Faceless Ones" in hushed tones and have all sorts of unfounded rumours flying about them ("why do they hide their faces?" "I heard they have no face" "I heard they remove your face when you become astartes" and so on). The black rage would manifest as berserker rage and tears of blood as before but not tears gushing forward uncontrollably like my original idea, just a more beefed up version of the real life condition haemolacria. I think that'll make it easier to fight while still helmeted. In this idea I was going to have the chapter see the black rage as an honourable but solemn affliction. The markings on the helmets would show respect and reverence. Idea 2: Sort of a reverse on the above. The chapter randomly leak tears of blood (not crying, more uncontrolled like the bad guy in casino royale...I might have gotten the original idea from him >.>) and are quick to tell their allies this isn't anything sinister and as such are happy to go bareheaded into battle, the sight of a foe a being unconcerned when their eyes are leaking blood being an effective psychological weapon. Rumour mill still churns as this is far from normal etc etc. The black rage would then manifest as bloodshot/red eyes (due to the slight mutation mentioned in the other idea) with constant tears of blood alongside the berserker rage and pain. In this idea I was going to have the chapter see the black rage as a curse and source of shame and so they force those afflicted to wear the death masks to hide their monstrous, possessed-like faces from prying eyes lest they be judged heretics. The markings on normal helmeted marines would show that they are still pure and not "touched" like members of the death company. Could open up some interesting interactions with the blood angels and other successors. I know which idea I'm leaning more towards but as before I'd appreciate some feedback guys, it'll go a long way in helping me flesh out the IA when I come to write it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3705532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I like the first. They're basically normal marines most of the time, but with creepy blood red scleras. When they lose themselves to the Black Rage, the bloody tears start. It's a neat physical representation of what's actually going on - that something that is inside them all the time is finally breaking loose. I like how that's represented by their bloody eyes going from just creepy and red to actively leaking bloody tears. I still think Mourners is a good name for the chapter, though. You could riff on that further by giving them elaborate funerary rites for fallen brothers. Maybe their fortress monastery is on a shrine world where all the open ground is dedicated to a planet-sized graveyard for the fallen - both their own and heroes from other nearby worlds, as well as heroic or particularly honored chapter serfs - and when it gets too full, they dig up the bones and do that thing where they use them to panel walls and make coats of arms and chandeliers out of them (Blood Angels artistry ftw!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3705555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 In either case, it brings new meaning to the phrase "seeing red"! Personally, I quite liked the idea of red tears, but reddened eyes works just as well too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3705577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted June 3, 2014 Share Posted June 3, 2014 I love the first idea and am seriously tempted to steal it and the name ElectricPaladin suggested to start my own successor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3706943 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfir Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 ElectricPaladin if you really don't mind I think I'll rename the chapter to "The Mourners", everyone at my gaming club said I'd be a fool to pass up on the name as it fits a lot better with the theme I'm going for than "Blood Seraphs" did. For the funeral rites I was going to have the chapter light a candle for each fallen marine and keep it lit for the same period of time as the marines service to the chapter, I was toying with names for this area but the best I could come up with was " the sea of lost lights". The bodies would be placed into a great funeral pyre in the centre of the sea of lost lights, the pyre always burning as a reminder that the fallen are never truly forgotten even after their light has been extinguished. I might have the ash collected from this pyre used in some other chapter tradition, maybe have it used in the chapter initiation ceremony as a way of tying the dead to the newly reborn. I think I need to have a proper sit down and think how to really flesh all this out before putting finger to keyboard for the IA. Thanks guys, you've all been a really big help getting me this far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3709740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 ElectricPaladin if you really don't mind I think I'll rename the chapter to "The Mourners", everyone at my gaming club said I'd be a fool to pass up on the name as it fits a lot better with the theme I'm going for than "Blood Seraphs" did. For the funeral rites I was going to have the chapter light a candle for each fallen marine and keep it lit for the same period of time as the marines service to the chapter, I was toying with names for this area but the best I could come up with was " the sea of lost lights". The bodies would be placed into a great funeral pyre in the centre of the sea of lost lights, the pyre always burning as a reminder that the fallen are never truly forgotten even after their light has been extinguished. I might have the ash collected from this pyre used in some other chapter tradition, maybe have it used in the chapter initiation ceremony as a way of tying the dead to the newly reborn. I think I need to have a proper sit down and think how to really flesh all this out before putting finger to keyboard for the IA. Thanks guys, you've all been a really big help getting me this far. An interesting idea I'm quite looking forward to reading more about that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3709743 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfir Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Oh and marine7312000 feel free to use the idea, I think ideas are meant to be shared. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3709745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Another idea for the ashes would be to use them to mix the paint used for the Death Company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3709846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 ElectricPaladin if you really don't mind I think I'll rename the chapter to "The Mourners", everyone at my gaming club said I'd be a fool to pass up on the name as it fits a lot better with the theme I'm going for than "Blood Seraphs" did. For the funeral rites I was going to have the chapter light a candle for each fallen marine and keep it lit for the same period of time as the marines service to the chapter, I was toying with names for this area but the best I could come up with was " the sea of lost lights". The bodies would be placed into a great funeral pyre in the centre of the sea of lost lights, the pyre always burning as a reminder that the fallen are never truly forgotten even after their light has been extinguished. I might have the ash collected from this pyre used in some other chapter tradition, maybe have it used in the chapter initiation ceremony as a way of tying the dead to the newly reborn. I think I need to have a proper sit down and think how to really flesh all this out before putting finger to keyboard for the IA. Thanks guys, you've all been a really big help getting me this far. Freely was the idea given, and joyously was it taken. Thus shall it be. Go forth, my brother, and bring the Emperor's Justice to the enemies of Man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3709847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 It's a great and original idea ! (I have to admit I also thought about emo Marines and chuckle a little inside for a moment, but the execution of your idea is pretty cool). In order to avoid making them pass as emos, they should cry out of hurt rather than sadness. For some people, when they lose someone close to you or when you think about that person not too long after they passed, grieving feels like someone just teared the upper guts out of their belly with their bare hands and the wound is still fresh. Their jaws are clenched, they want to scream but are unable to because they just can't unclench their jaws. Rather than a typical facial expression of sadness, they look completely angry and yet tears flow. I can totally imagine that way of grieving with the tears of blood for Blood Angels successors ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3709889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 It's a great and original idea ! (I have to admit I also thought about emo Marines and chuckle a little inside for a moment, but the execution of your idea is pretty cool). In order to avoid making them pass as emos, they should cry out of hurt rather than sadness. For some people, when they lose someone close to you or when you think about that person not too long after they passed, grieving feels like someone just teared the upper guts out of their belly with their bare hands and the wound is still fresh. Their jaws are clenched, they want to scream but are unable to because they just can't unclench their jaws. Rather than a typical facial expression of sadness, they look completely angry and yet tears flow. I can totally imagine that way of grieving with the tears of blood for Blood Angels successors ! This is a great idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3709902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricPaladin Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Nah... I think you can do better than wargamer dude machismo. I don't think they're going to look like "emo marines" just because they weep and have elaborate funerary rights. They also run into battle while they weep their silent bloody tears and tear their opponents limb from limb with bolt pistol and chainsword! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/291779-a-black-rage-idea/#findComment-3709913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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