Furioso Librarian Dreadnought, 7th Edition

[Jolemai]

Possibly the one unit that has changed the most following our 7th Edition FAQ, the Furioso Librarian Dreadnought is starting to work it's way into many lists. However, how should we be using it?

 

First, the changes:

• No more Codex Psychic Powers
• Gains the Psychic Pilot USR, Mastery Level 2 and Force
• Has access to Biomancy, Daemonology, Divination, Telepathy and Telekinesis
• Benefits from a change to the vehicle rules

Previous tactics involved, but were not limited to:

~ Taking Wings of Sanguinius and Shield of Sanguinius to provide mobile cover for Mech and Jump forces

~ Taking Blood Lance or Fear of the Darkness and deploying by Drop pod

~ Taking Shield of Sanguinius and a Lucius Drop Pod for a 3++

 

... and sadly these are no longer applicable, but can we modify them?

 

If you roll on the same table you get a free Primaris, so that would be Smite on the Biomancy table. Smite and a Storm Bolter seem a little underwhelming though...

 

We could drop them off by Stormraven, but they aren't generating Warp Charges by being off the table...

 

We could start them on the board but with a movement of 6", they will get left behind many lists...

 

What new could we try and what are your thoughts?

BRB Psychic Power reference

[knife&fork]

I've run them the same in 7th as I did in 6th:Podded and rolling on telekenesis or telepathy. 

 

Telekenesis got a lot better in this edition, with the amazing levitation power in particular. Telepathy have a good shooting primaris and the now completely bonkers invisibility.  

 

Biomancy and Divination are not good sets for the dread. Too many complete duds. 

 

Even though force got worse they can still hunt MCs thanks to the new 'smash' usr. Very unlikely to get popped in a single turn now.

[Jolemai]

What are you seeing in Levitation?

[knife&fork]

What are you seeing in Levitation?

 

It's an extra move outside of the movement phase. Huge potential for scoring in maelstrom of war play or just getting out of a tight spot. Your rear AV might be exposed or you want out of melta range or maybe something scary that could tarpit/kill you in assault. 

[Jolemai]

Perhaps, but it seems like a niche power to me.

 

You say you have been running them in a similar fashion as previous. What else are you running with it?

[knife&fork]

Keeping that dread alive is all about being in the right place at the right time.

 

Frag dreads, razor squads, meph in a raven, autolas preds for support. Sprinkle with DC units to add flavor. 

[Jostal]

What kind of power weapon is the furioso libbys force weapon? An axe? A sword? I ran telekinesis in my recent game and got the psychic malestrom adn actually got it off in a round, cut a ten man squad of Marines in half, then assaulted. Hehe.

[knife&fork]

It's an axe if you use the standard one. So +1 S and AP2 at initiative. S8 with furious charge and bonus attacks for two weapons. Not bad even if force got nerfed. 

[Jolemai]

Last edition the FAQ ruled that whilst we could cast Wings of Sanguinius when immobilised, we would not be able to move. As this is no word in the current FAQ, do we feel Levitation would allow an immobilised Dreadnought to move or not?

[Chaplain Admetus]

Re: Levitation, the wording is 'the psyker and his unit immediately make a move', and the vehicle damage result for immobilised says 'an Immobilised vehicle cannot move' so I'd come down in the no camp on that one.

 

For them more generally, a run down. Biomancy could be useful as support (Iron Arm is a bit crap but everything else is decent) but it's probably better on a regular Librarian. Enfeeble gets bonus comedy points for letting you Instant Death a farseer with a boltgun. Divination is atrocious (yes, you read that right) - Foreboding is practically useless, Perfect Timing on a storm bolter isn't great, Precognition is pretty rubbish, and Scrier's Gaze is hugely situational. Telekinesis is OK but hampered by the short range on most of its powers, meaning the Furioso is likely to get left behind. Telepathy is, in my opinion, the best. Psychic Shriek is amazing, Dominate is fairly solid, Mental Fortitude is the worst spell but still has its uses (make damn sure those marines don't run off an objective), Terrify makes a nice combo with Psychic Shriek and can force things to fall back - it's basically Fear of the Darkness but trading -2 to their leadership for -1 and lasts longer, Shrouding isn't amazing but works nicely to keep the dread itself alive (and other things if you have a supporting firebase), Invisibility is pretty broken, and Hallucination is pretty good (bonus points for the pinning test also working nicely with Terrify).

 

Summary - Telepathy or Biomancy are the best bets, I'd say, in that order. Biomancy if you want to buff your army, Telepathy to try and neuter your opponents.

[Demoulius]

Chaplain Admetus, I know its your opinion, but might I ask why you think divination is bad? Its a tree to buff other units (or yourself) rather then do direct damage or make units run away or some such. Dont you see merit in its uses?

[BloodTzar]

Regarding the weapon id say it is unusual weapon (or w.ever is the official name, but same as glaives are classified) therefore it is AP 3. On the other hand you get to do all attacks at Initiative with the Blood fist at S10 +1 A for 2 CC weapons.

Please correct me if I am wrong , perhaps I did it wrong for the whole 6th ed

~BT

[Chaplain Admetus]

I think it's bad for a Furioso specifically, it's good in general. Three of the six spells in the tree only affect the psyker (well, two are Psyker and his unit, but in this case that's the same thing). Foreboding - anything that charges a furioso has to be pretty certain it can kill it, making counter-attack kind of moot, and a full-BS overwatching Storm Bolter isn't great. Perfect Timing - an Ignores Cover Storm Bolter isn't exactly worth rendering the power rubbish unless you manage to grab a good witchfire power off of another tree. Precognition lets you re-roll hits, wounds and saves - better than the other two, but again you won't necessarily make it to combat, and your only shooting weapon is a Storm Bolter (again, unlikely to do much unless you grab a decent witchfire power from elsewhere).

 

I think Divination is a good lore in general, but not for a Furioso librarian. On a normal librarian in a unit, I'd happily take it.

 

+EDIT+ BloodTzar - it's not an Unusual Force Weapon because it doesn't have any unique combat rules (p 178 of the rulebook). It's closest to a halberd in design, meaning it counts as a force axe.

[knife&fork]

  Telekinesis is OK but hampered by the short range on most of its powers, meaning the Furioso is likely to get left behind. 

 

I don't see that as a huge problem as his place is at the front. He'll be podding or flying in, not walking.

[Pbenner]

With the addition of "unbound" play, I've been looking at making an all dreadnought army.  Sadly, this model is only available in your codex, but I would like to modify and adapt it to the use of my Deathwing.  

 

Is it just me, or is this thing really beast?  13/12/10, 3 hull points, ML2 Psycher with the same power access as C:SM ?  DCCW and Force "Weapon" (Halberd counts as Axe) means good charges, etc.  

 

What are the downsides to this model other than being a Dreadnought?  I don't have a BA Codex, so I'm not sure on points, but are they excessively expensive or what is the catch?  

 

I'm debating buying one next week to take down to my Mom's house for the Holiday to have something to assemble.  Any reason not to?  

 

LMK

 

Paul

[Jolemai]

It costs 50 points more then your "bare bones" venerable Dreadnought entry and can have no further upgrades than what is listed in the Codex. You do get +1A for having two close combat weapons and it does benefit from Furious Charge should there be a Sanguinary Priest/Novitae (Sanguinary Novitaes are found in our Honour Guards) nearby.

 

Other than that, it has the usual downsides that a Dreadnought has. We tend to find them slow, so they arrive either by Drop Pod or Stormraven.

[Demoulius]

Dont forget he has red thirst, a 1/6 chance that he has furios charge himself so he doesent need that SP :P

 

BUt as Jolemai already said it basicly has whatever weaknesses normal dreadnoughts have. It does have WS6, front AV of 13 and its a psyker but whatever generally kills normal draednoughts can also kill him. I will say this, hes immume to krak grenades to the front AV which can be a life saver!

[Jolemai]

Geez, not only do I forget Red Thirst rolls when I play, I now forget they even exist in the first place...

[Pbenner]

So,

 

Libby Dread needs a delivery system, that isn't hard.  No further upgrades?  I assume that means that the model has DCCW+Stormbolter and then Force Weapon?  No mag grapples or upgrades to it's attached weapon?  Not a big deal, not really there to be shooty.  I want him to come down and rip something apart.

 

Seem good overall, especially with ML2 Psycher and the like.  I assume that it is not Venerable?  

 

Paul 

[Morticon]

Not "venerable" per se - its AV13 and WS6, but no rerolls.  Also, no upgrades allowed on it with the wording what it is/was.  

 

 

I dont know which powers would best suit it to be honest.  Id want to get that 1:6 chance of IWND on biomancy, and then rock something fun in Sanctic but, chances are not high. 

[Pbenner]

I can see IWND being the biggest WIN, but at only a ~17% chance, I don't think it's worth the risk.  I am assuming that I'll always go Telepathy unless there is a reason not to.  

 

Mainly it will be a painting/modeling project for me, I don't get to play nearly as often as I would like, but I really enjoy the hobby side of it.  If I do get to play, I want to make sure it's a reasonable investment.  It may only see play in Apocalypse, but it's still more dice in my Psycher pool.  I presently have 20 Librarians as part of that force, so these are a good fit.  Librarian Dreads to go with their counter part Chaplain Dreads :)  

 

I'll be picking one up on my way home this evening.  It's a really cool model and it'll be a nice project that isn't too messy to take with me to work on in the evenings.

 

Paul

[Jakbal]

Question ... Do dreadnoughts attack at initiative with the halberd (force axe)?  I know that a Nemesis Dreadknight attacks at initiative as it is a monstrous creature, but I'm not sure about dreadnoughts (I think not)?

[knife&fork]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Walkers ignore 'unwieldy'

The furioso lib is really good at killing MCs, so I'm not super concerned with the powers he'll generate. 'Force' will likely be the most important one and everything else is a bonus. Telepathy is nice and telekinesis is ok. You could draw from biomancy but those cards are for Mephiston

It's not really possible to make him a a worthwhile witchfire spammer without allying in a ton of cheap psykers.

[Demoulius]

If you can generate force with him and charge him at an enemy MC chance is fairly high that he will instant-gib it if he gets to swing (and your opponent fails his invunerable save, if he has any)

 

S7 without furious charge is nothing to sniff at. With its S8 meaning hed instant-gib MEQ models even without force :lol:

[knife&fork]

Yeah, the S7-8 force with ap2 and ws6 at I4 is nothing to sneeze at! With the nerf to smash MCs really don't want to be charged by that. Removing entire carnifex broods on the charge is glorious.