[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[K3nn3rs]

It's worth noting that the building damage table will frequently limit your shooting.

which is certainly an issue. Protecting expensive HSS is proving a real dilemma!!

 

IMO bunkers are still the go to option as it protects them completely from small arms fire, allows you to place the terrain where you can best achieve effect and whilst heavy calibre fire (Typhons/ lascannons/ destroyer hits, etc) will disrupt firing and even cause some casualties it's better then having the squad wiped out.

 

That's just my thoughts, I'd be interested in hearing other views.

[Jarkaira]

^ Imo it should be vanilla and cheap as per reasons stated by both of I and Bladewolf.

 

Single Bunker with small upgrades is the best way to go unless you plan to build your whole army around Defence Network.

 

It becomes just one part of your army which creates a null zone or forces your enemy to deal with it. Thus it is best backed by other units creating fire lanes such as Rapiers as well as moving firezones such as Typhons.

 

If you go for the multiple defence posts then you must commit to the fact that it will eat up points and you must build your list to suit gunline and effectively use escape hatches to create kill zones in front of your network.

 

Fortified warfare should deserve a tactica thread of it's own as it is quite a good topic although rarely practised.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Jarkaira

[ronin_cse]

Any advice on how to equip Cataphractii with storm shields for their other hand? Thunder hammers? Chain fists? A mix?

[Lord Blackwood]

fists and chainfists 

[ronin_cse]

fists and chainfists 

 

No thunder hammers at all? Wouldn't that be helpful against primarchs and other tough multiwound things?

[Lord Blackwood]

Im cheap , I dont feel the price is worth it for concussive.   XD  

[ronin_cse]

Im cheap , I dont feel the price is worth it for concussive.   XD  

 

Here's the issue though: they look awesome :p

[Lord Blackwood]

they do look pretty hype , yer not wrong.  

 

[Slips]

Only reason I have any is because I ran out of Power Fists...

 

Still, with Custodes roaming around now, having 2+/3++ termies that can concuss them is a decent thing to have though thats only if they are equipped with initiative ap2 weapons. Otherwise, its S10 fists at I1 anyways.

[ronin_cse]

Only reason I have any is because I ran out of Power Fists...

 

Still, with Custodes roaming around now, having 2+/3++ termies that can concuss them is a decent thing to have though thats only if they are equipped with initiative ap2 weapons. Otherwise, its S10 fists at I1 anyways.

 

Guess we'll have to see how popular power gauntlets are on Custodes. Personally I don't like taking too many as I think the loss of shooting and their, most likely, superior initiative is too much of a trade off.

[KhaosRising]

So in light of the latest rules and being unable to combine SS with Tartaros armor, I'm thinking of going Cataphractii instead. I might try to model them after the Huscarls, which from the limited artwork I've found seem to be in Cataphractii armor. From a gaming standpoint they'll be slightly less mobile than the other variants and I'll lose overwatch altogether, but the points saved on the SS allow me to add more SS.

 

Any thoughts on this? Should I wait for a potential FAQ/errata on the Tartaros? Should I stick with Indomitus pattern TDA?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

So it might be a little late but I couldn't find an official answer to the terminator ss question but after 4 Months I've finally got an official answer.

 

Edit: My original question in case it's not clear. "Hi there. I was just wondering about the availability of storm shields on Tartaros pattern terminators for the Imperial Fists legions. In the original Horus Heresy book 1 Betrayal Terminator armour was divided as "Terminator armour" which was indominus and tartaros and "cataphractii terminator armour". So when Book 3 extermination came out you could take the shields on any pattern, but now that tartaros is separated, it cannot? Is this intentional or an oversight? What reason is there to deny a shield on that pattern?"

 

 

TL;DR Tartaros will never get SS and Terminator Command squads in Cata or Indominus can take SS RAI even though they can't RAW.

Edited March 1, 2017 by KhaosRising

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wow I have been waiting for them to address this... finally.

[KhaosRising]

Wow I have been waiting for them to address this... finally.

 

Unfortunately it's not the decision we wanted, but at least its official

[Withershadow]

 

 

Wow I have been waiting for them to address this... finally.

Unfortunately it's not the decision we wanted, but at least its official

Really? It lets command squads take shields, its more than you could have ever hoped for since that means IF command squads are literally the only ones in the game that can take unique equipment.

[Jarkaira]

^ Or we can extrapolate this into every legion's CS being able to get each unique equipment when applied properly :)

[ronin_cse]

^ Or we can extrapolate this into every legion's CS being able to get each unique equipment when applied properly

 

Honestly I'd go with this. I think it's absolutely absurd to say CSes can't take unique equipment when it's obvious it is due to poor wording more than intent.

[Withershadow]

I don't know, they went out of their way to ensure the Command Squad wasn't characters, going as far as to remove that classification from the Banner Bearer. I would love to field a command squad of daggers/powerfists with my Alpha Legion. The tears would be delicious.

[ronin_cse]

I don't know, they went out of their way to ensure the Command Squad wasn't characters, going as far as to remove that classification from the Banner Bearer. I would love to field a command squad of daggers/powerfists with my Alpha Legion. The tears would be delicious.

 

That's specifically for a character though, I was referring to other equipment like the Storm Shields.

[Withershadow]

I can't recall any other unique legion equipment that is not for characters except Sally shields and assault cannons.

[Slips]

^ Or we can extrapolate this into every legion's CS being able to get each unique equipment when applied properly

Not really since IF Storm Shields aren't character restricted, you only have to be in TDA to qualify.

 

Previous arguments over IF Command Squad Termies being ineligible to take Storm Shields was because of the "IC  or Legion Terminator" bit in the wording for Storm Shields.

 

RAW, command squads aren't Legion Terminators by that very strict definition, RAI, when equipped with TDA they are Terminators and should be eligible.

 

+++

 

I still have a hard time believing Alan Bligh thinks WS4 1W Terminators with a 2+/3++ and can sweep is OTT and unbalanced when we have 2+/3++ (fiery form raptora) 2W Sekhmet Terminators who still have a gun to shoot and force weapons for considerably cheaper and can sweep.

 

A 10 Man Sekhmet with 10 fists are ~480.

A 10 Man IF Termy Squad with 10 fists and 10 shields are ~450.

Both are 2+/3++ since Sekhmet can choose their powers from Pyro/Tele. The 30 Point difference gets them BoS(Ml2), Shredding Combi-Bolters (Ok I guess) and 10 extra wounds for the squad (in consequential in S8 Ap2 Combat) and any other powers they Roll/Choose.

 

They do pay +50 for 10 Combi-Weapons which pushes the Sekhmet to 530 before transport but with Levitation and/or deepstrike in GotCK, it isn't such a big deal.

 

For the above IF terminators, the only way to get them up field without leaving them high and dry are: A Caestus (305 before upgrades), Kharybdis (235) or Spartan (375+ depending) which further exacerbates their cost. Realistically, you could take 2 10 man Sekhmet squads (without combis) for a bit over 100 points difference than a single 10 man Storm Shield IF Squad in a Spartan.

 

But oh well.

 

I guess I'm lucky that my local group doesnt think they're OP since theyre in combat with fearless units for the most part where sweeping never comes into play.

[Withershadow]

Some people are still arguing against the choosing of specific powers since the general psychic rules for 30K state you "choose" a single discipline. At least one event next month has ruled as such, although the organizers are biased muppets so that's not worth much of anything.

 

I agree it's not that over the top after the tome of "we don't understand our own game" that is Book 7, but it shouldn't cost the same as for Indomitus either.

[Slips]

If I had to pay +5 to +10 over Indomitus for Tartaros Termies with Shields, I'd find that a fair enough price to pay for the flexibility it gives.

 

+5 for Cataphractii since its 4+ to 3+

+10 for Indomitus as the baseline

+5/10 for Tartaros since its the baseline + Sweeping.

 

Would also mean me and a fair few other IF players wouldnt have to literally pry off and repaint the Tartaros Termies with shields they have (I have 15).

[Jarkaira]

^ I am not a fan of that kind of FAQs or answers through email as those happen to invalidate models people have been using before and have put their time into. Imo when ruling something you have to also take in note what kind of an effect it will cause to players with said models.

 

For example if someone brings invalid list to tournament which I organize I would consider between the individuals situation and what kind of an effect it will have to other participants. If it would mean that the guy with an invalid list would have to skip out playing and the effects against others would be small I would still let that guy play with his list although he would get bit of an unfair advantage. If it seems like he hasn't known or just did a simple mistake I wouldn't even consider taking some of the sportmanship points from him but if I sense some malicious intent I would lower some of those points.

 

Tartaros with SS isn't enough game breaking for me not to play against list using them but the clarification is as it is and I hope that in future people would model their SS termies with other variant. Often those SS termies are thrown against targets which have better morale than basic units and oppurtunity to sweep doesn't matter much. It just helps them against getting tarpitted by some flimsy unit.

 

^^

 

Are you talking about Adepticon? They have their own kind of take on how to run their show and I kind of like it although allowing multiple melta bombs meant I wasn't fancied to join this year.

 

What I did like for example is that they ruled against talons counting against RoW and Legion restrictions on model basis (even after they received clarification from GW) just because plenty of people had built and painted their lists counting talons as a single choice.

 

Adepticon is a good example of the fact that you have to know your rules before you can break them and sometimes they need some bending atleast. They tailor their event rules for the participants which is all that matters although I don't like some of their rulings at all and I also find their total uncompetitivity aspect to not suit my kind of play.

[Delakar]

Back on the topic of building I agree with both K3nn3rs and Wither, if your playing at 2500 or more points the bunker is just too easily dealt with. As it stands i'm currently trying out a void shield generator with three shields for protecting the devastators. I've seen those work a lot better at that point value. In addition it also provides protection to my rhinos, quad mortars, and the spartan. Honestly I've been thinking that I will scrape an additional 55 points off some squad so that I can take the bunker and the void shield generator.

I think this may be the best option so the generator can protect all your vehicles. In addition you've got a bunker to provide cover and protection to the devastators. 

 

Besides we're imperial fists. We Must Fortify Our Position.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Delakar

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Why not a sky shield LP ?