[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Delakar]

If you are bringing any form of air transport or deep striking the sky shield LP is amazing. The only thing is units on top of it can still be targeted like a normal squad. So if you have incoming ap 3 or better templates on average your still losing half your squad. At leas with the bunker they have pop the damn thing before they can target the squad inside. Edited March 6, 2017 by Delakar

[Brother Captain Spud]

 

So Terminator Command squads can take shields... yep...

 

Some members here should be eating some humble pie right about now.

 

Particularly those who have been so adamant on that their interpretation of RAW was RAI and are now saying the Tartaros ruling doesn't matter because their gaming group doesn't mind.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Brother Captain Spud

[K3nn3rs]

A sky shield landing pad WITH a Deredeo WITH atomantic pavaise for a 3++ for those models within 3"...

 

I've been thinking of running one for a while - great platform for a HHS, quad battery and a Deredeo!

[Delakar]

I understand you would take the better of two saves between the dreadnought and the SS but would the atomatic pavaise increase the ss involn save to a 3+ or would it just improve the dread's save to the same 4+ that is granted by the SS. My bet would be on the latter. Just making the Dread's involn equal to that of the SS.

 

Still not sure on how I feel about using a SS to try and protect a devastator squad. I feel like a building with a troop capacity and firing points would work better than something that provides involn or cover saves. It is also highly dependent on the point level you are playing at. A single bunker can be great at 1500 or lower points anything higher than 1500pts and your opponent will likely have too many things on the table that a lone bunker just wont be enough.

Edited March 7, 2017 by Delakar

[Jarkaira]

Add void shield generator with triple voids behind you bunker and it helps it survive better.

[K3nn3rs]

There's a balance though - spend too much on fortifications and you'll end up stripping out points from your units.

 

Would a HSS with bunker and void shield generator with triple shields get its points back?

 

I suppose if you park your spartan full of terminators and other units under the bubble it helps to protect a larger part of your force T1.

[Delakar]

well at least for me I would have 3 quad mortars, a LC Dev team, and a scorpius that would all be hunkered down under the void shields and the dev team would be in the bunker.

[ronin_cse]

So I decided that I want to pick one of our RoWs to work towards. Yes I know they aren't great but what ever that will be part of the fun/challenge.

 

Anyways which RoW is generally the better one? Kind of thinking the Hammerfall Strike Force looks better but not super sure.

 

Edit: Plus it would be way cheaper since I don't actually own any breachers at the moment

Edited March 28, 2017 by ronin_cse

[Lord Blackwood]

gauntlet is the better of the two if you must pick between them

[ronin_cse]

gauntlet is the better of the two if you must pick between them

 

Why?

[Lord Blackwood]

Both are trash 

Hammerfall is worse because its  " benifits"  are even less useful  and building a list around it means praying for good blind test  rolls. 
If you want to drop  a bunch of shooty  units into the open so they can get torn to shreds by your opponents guns then it works exactly like that. 
Deep striking your melee units works  just as poorly.  
Your saving points  on transports  ,but  the unreliable nature of deep strike and the  minimum to  non existent defensive bonuses  do little to actually help you. 

Stone Gauntlet , despite requiring breachers is a better go of things because it has a fairly useful advantage in the toughness 5 ,  its not fantastic but you can actually feel it , I still reccomend putting yer breachers in raiders some folks like to give em apothecaries and put em on objectives cause they become hard to shift and thats certainly an option.   Pollux slots into this army quite well ,  and sigismund  can also work in a gauntlet list , not because it benefits him directly , but hes useless in the other list due to you not wanting to take assault based units in hammerfall. 
With the change to the rules regarding Storm Shields ( Atleast how it is interpreted )  I  reckon you could  have a bit of run with a Cata squad with shields along with Pollux  but again just real marginal bonuses.  

Stone Gauntlet can be protective and has an immediately noticeable benefit that you build your army around  small though it may be , Hammerfall is just not good ,between the two of them SG can work , Hammerfall will more than likely just effect you getting yer army torn to shreds. 

Of course as with all  tactical advice , you  dont need validation to play what you want , if you wanna roll hammerfall thats yer business  
As a wise man once said " You  do you "  
 

[Lord Asvaldir]

There's no doubt that hammerfall is trash, it's a deep strike oriented RoW that doesn't work well due to lack of drop pods, but I'm not sure that I'd call Stone Gauntlet trash. As you said you just have to build your army around stone gauntlet for the list to work, which means a fairly heavy reliance on breachers and terminators. The restriction on elites and fast attack is unfortunate, but at least you can work around it. It's probably not the best RoW for fists since sniping vets are so reliable for fists, but it's something to work with. 

[Lord Blackwood]

Ya maybe not trash , just not very good.  It takes a lot of work to make it worthwhile too much work if you want consistent results and no headache army building .   I use it in ZM  often which is a place where it shines.  But yea between  the two its superior and neither are great.  Hammerfall is a hot pile of garbage though. 

[Delakar]

I think it has more to do with the current state of the meta than anything else but I have seen quad mortas and laser destroyer batteries work wonders with the SG RoW. Add in Siggy and take a squad to run with him and you are looking at some real hate on the battlefield.

 

Most of my local group who runs the SG RoW (at least two that o know of) run breeches in raiders, Siggy and friends then a few quad mortars and laser destroyers to round things out.

 

I think one of the big things is to find out if the shield wardens go on intitive 1 or intitive 2. If they do go on int 2 then I think sticking siggy with a squad of shield wardens would be one hell'va deathball.

[Lord Asvaldir]

The shield wall rule for wardens now gives them +1 ws when they are charged, not +1 int so that debate is irrelevant. Wardens seem ok, but since stone gauntlet already forces you to take 2 breachers squads I don't think they are all that useful. That being said a unit of 20 in a spartan with a sprinkling of axes would probably be fun, just not terribly effective given the price tag.

[ronin_cse]

Well thanks for the advice here! Guess I'll set SG as a distant goal. Of course I know I can run what I want but I don't want to totally waste my time, I'm already handicapping myself going with a unique IF RoW in the first place.

[Delakar]

The shield wall rule for wardens now gives them +1 ws when they are charged, not +1 int so that debate is irrelevant. Wardens seem ok, but since stone gauntlet already forces you to take 2 breachers squads I don't think they are all that useful. That being said a unit of 20 in a spartan with a sprinkling of axes would probably be fun, just not terribly effective given the price tag.

oh i missed that ruling. makes sense though

[Lord Asvaldir]

Yeah it's a solid improvement for Wardens, however I think they are still a bit too expensive to really be a solid competitive choice, especially compared to Templar brethren.

 

Well thanks for the advice here! Guess I'll set SG as a distant goal. Of course I know I can run what I want but I don't want to totally waste my time, I'm already handicapping myself going with a unique IF RoW in the first place.

 

Yeah one thing to keep in mind is with SG, like some other rites like terror assault the rite is a bit limiting in your options, and you are stuck with getting at least 20 breachers if not more as well as a decent amount of terminators to really make use of the rite. Not a bad thing per say, especially if you like breachers but just something to keep in mind. 

[ronin_cse]

Yeah it's a solid improvement for Wardens, however I think they are still a bit too expensive to really be a solid competitive choice, especially compared to Templar brethren.

 

Well thanks for the advice here! Guess I'll set SG as a distant goal. Of course I know I can run what I want but I don't want to totally waste my time, I'm already handicapping myself going with a unique IF RoW in the first place.

 

Yeah one thing to keep in mind is with SG, like some other rites like terror assault the rite is a bit limiting in your options, and you are stuck with getting at least 20 breachers if not more as well as a decent amount of terminators to really make use of the rite. Not a bad thing per say, especially if you like breachers but just something to keep in mind. 

 

20 breachers is quite a barrier, I will probably just use warden upgrade kits though so I can save some $$$ with plastic marines. I still don't know why FW released an Ultramarine upgrade kit for breachers instead of IF.

 

Do you say you want a decent amount of terminators since they can take storm shields for the +1T?

[Lord Asvaldir]

Yeah I'd say that's a pretty good reason to include a bunch of storm shield terminators, however they are fairly expensive with storm shields so that's something to keep in mind. Probably can't afford too many.

[K3nn3rs]

Remember that breachers can be relatively cheap (money wise) if you use the plastic sets (MKIII) and second party shields (ML shields/ anvil industry arms).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

There are some really good generic rites to choose from as well.

[ronin_cse]

There are some really good generic rites to choose from as well.

 

Oh yeah for sure and that is how my force is structured right now. I just like the challenge of running a "fluffy" RoW like this is all and I want to have a goal for the next stage of my modeling besides more quad mortars ;)

[Slips]

If you want a real challenge, I'd be personally curious to see a working Hammerfall list.

 

God I hate that thing...

[Delakar]

 

There are some really good generic rites to choose from as well.

 

Oh yeah for sure and that is how my force is structured right now. I just like the challenge of running a "fluffy" RoW like this is all and I want to have a goal for the next stage of my modeling besides more quad mortars

"The challenge of running fluffy RoWs" he says then in the same sentence hes talking about quad mortars. LOL, well at least you aren't running 9 of them like some people in my group does. Looking at you Mike!

Edited March 30, 2017 by Delakar