[HH1.0] Imperial Fists Tactics

[Bung]

If we look at the leaked sheets for Kratos and Predator our LA rule will be usefull for vehicles too.

 

Sponsons with Heavy Bolters and pintle mounted Bolters / Heavy Bolters get BS 5.

 

Probably other vehicle weapons will be affected too, if they are have the Auto keyword.

 

Maybe we will have the standard Sicaran and Punisher with füll BS 5, same for Autocannon Dreads which will probably affected too.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Bung

[Slips]

If we look at the leaked sheets for Kratos and Predator our LA rule will be usefull for vehicles too.

 

Sponsons with Heavy Bolters and pintle mounted Bolters / Heavy Bolters get BS 5.

 

Probably other vehicle weapons will be affected too, if they are have the Auto keyword.

 

Maybe we will have the standard Sicaran and Punisher with füll BS 5, same for Autocannon Dreads which will probably affected too.

Dreads and other vehicles are confirmed to be getting Legiones Astartes so yes, we would.

 

It affects units that are already BS5 with Twin-Linked weapons (but iirc twin-linked is changing) but those I think are going to be fewer in number.

[Bung]

@Slips

I think Templar Bretheren can get pretty nasty if you combine the new WS table and a Warlord that gives +1 WS to its unit.

[Scammel]

One the one hand Brethren are obviously much better with the extra wound and rending on their swords, but on the other hand I think they're actually in a worse position than they were before against their arch-nemeses, Terminators. Rending probably isn't enough to reliably get through the second wound that Terminators now have, and the Brethren feel any powerfists coming their way more acutely than ever. 

 

All this said, the corollary is that our own Terminators feel very well suited for TEQ engagements. 3++ is the best you'll get against opposing fists while gauntlets are themselves perhaps the best anti-TEQ weapon available at scale. If there's a TEQ/elite MEQ meta, we're in a nice spot overall.

[Slips]

Yes, all in all, we're in a good position; we're generalist enough to be able to perform whatever we might want to well enough be it shooting or CC but not so specialized that other areas sacrifice performance in (aka get to real benefit to doing it) vs other legions.

 

And if we do specialize either via RoW or Characters, we become all the stronger such as 3++ rerollable Fafnir Rann in squads of 4++ rerollable Phalanx Warder squads in Stone Gauntlet who get +1WS if they charge or are charged and all come standard with Power Axes now.

 

All our terimators now basically being able to be set up as 'Huscarls' is great with Sol Gloves and Storm Shields even on Tartaros units. It would be expensive but 2+/3++ S8 Ap1 Master-Crafted generic termies is pretty great.

 

Templar, while having rending, are still very much there to just clear our massed 3+ or worse units. With 3A on the Charge (4 on the champ) a unit of 10 is dumping 31 attacks and at WS5 and if Furious Charge is unchanged then theyre also hitting at S5 (S9 on the champ with a fist). So unless the unit you hit has a decent invuln or FNP, youre probably going to sweep esp with Crusader. Which means you'll have to be careful that they don't go too hard or they'll end up out of combat during your opponents turn and most likely shot off the board.

 

All our Characters are pretty great and have their place.

 

The RoWs Im generally positive on but I'd have to see how reserves and deepstrike has changed in this edition before coming to a conclusion with Hammerfall.

[Scammel]

And if we do specialize either via RoW or Characters, we become all the stronger such as 3++ rerollable Fafnir Rann in squads of 4++ rerollable Phalanx Warder squads in Stone Gauntlet who get +1WS if they charge or are charged and all come standard with Power Axes now.

Sorry - what's this coming from? I understand the reroll, but I've missed what's improving the save in the first instance?

[Slips]

 

And if we do specialize either via RoW or Characters, we become all the stronger such as 3++ rerollable Fafnir Rann in squads of 4++ rerollable Phalanx Warder squads in Stone Gauntlet who get +1WS if they charge or are charged and all come standard with Power Axes now.

Sorry - what's this coming from? I understand the reroll, but I've missed what's improving the save in the first instance?

 

Try to keep this in the IF thread until you see it elsewhere:

 

Additionally, per this chart:

 

Our special units having pretty liberal access to WS5 means that theyre only getting hit back on 5s in CC which is a pretty big defensive boost.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Slips

[Scammel]

Now that I can see the additional page of Dorn's rules, he's... better? I think? He's tankier and more fearsome in combat, and his WL trait lends itself well to a CC-focused build (which IF seem to be able to do very well now), in exchange for his army composition and fortification shenanigans. At the very least, I can see much more clearly how he slots into a list without diluting his capabilities.

[Marshal Rohr]

The way they’ve changed Stone Gauntlet fixed a lot of the issues I was having to work around to make my maxed out Force Org work. Now it’s much more clearcut and let’s me get my dreads in.

[Bung]

@Slips

 

Is there a list of weapons with the Auto type?

Would be nice to know which weapons would profit from the Fists Legion Astartes rules.

[Slips]

@Slips

 

Is there a list of weapons with the Auto type?

Would be nice to know which weapons would profit from the Fists Legion Astartes rules.

Think along the lines of:

• Autocannon
• Kheres
• Illiastus
• Rotor
• Anvillus Autocannons
• Accelerator Autocannons
• Stormcannon

Basically any solid-projectile, direct fire gun that isnt a bolter, really.

[Scammel]

...I've heard some uncorroborated reports that deep strike now only scatters D6 and permits charging upon arrival. If true, I suspect that might elevate IF from 'large and welcome upgrade' to 'stinking bishop in the midday sun' - and what's even funnier is that the IF unique reaction is excellent against opposing deep strikers.

 

 

 

@Slips

Is there a list of weapons with the Auto type?
Would be nice to know which weapons would profit from the Fists Legion Astartes rules.

Think along the lines of:

• Autocannon
• Kheres
• Illiastus
• Rotor
• Anvillus Autocannons
• Accelerator Autocannons
• Stormcannon

Basically any solid-projectile, direct fire gun that isnt a bolter, really.

 

Bloody hell, the upgraded rotors as well?!

Edited March 31, 2022 by Scammel

[Slips]

I mean it when I say we're making out like bandits lmao

[Bung]

I will do happy Brrrrt noises with 4 Sicaran Punishers i need to finish.

And i already have 2 Sets of FW Rotor Canons in my stash.

[Scammel]

I can't quite get over Sigismund and a squad of gauntlet/shield Tartaros deep striking turn two, bringing however many mates with them as part of a Hammerfall Strike Force, getting +2 to their immediate charge roll and a further +2 to sweep after Sigismund has made everything that isn't a Primarch cry (including Dreadnoughts), gaining a global combat resolution buff thanks to the Warlord Trait if the opponent dared to let their commander so much as breathe outside of the confines of a bunker... and being able to pull it off in the opponent's movement phase as well as part of the unique reaction, even if you do fluff the charge?

 

The only real downside I see is not being able to run this in addition to a Stone Gauntlet which, as we've set out above, is also pretty monstrous, what with the 3++ rerollable Rann and 4++ rerollable WS5 Warders, who also just so happen to be able to reroll their standard armour saves against blasts and templates thanks to Heavy.

 

And if neither of those appeals for whatever reason, you can still just load up on rending autocannon and assault cannon, along with rotor cannon, and BS5 the opponent off the table. And in that list, there's still nothing stopping you from just taking that deep-striking Sigismund squad, because Hammerfall is just gravy to get a larger reserves contingent.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Scammel

[Gorgoff]

I can't quite get over Sigismund and a squad of gauntlet/shield Tartaros deep striking turn two, bringing however many mates with them as part of a Hammerfall Strike Force, getting +2 to their immediate charge roll and a further +2 to sweep after Sigismund has made everything that isn't a Primarch cry (including Dreadnoughts), gaining a global combat resolution buff thanks to the Warlord Trait if the opponent dared to let their commander so much as breathe outside of the confines of a bunker... and being able to pull it off in the opponent's movement phase as well as part of the unique reaction, even if you do fluff the charge?

 

The only real downside I see is not being able to run this in addition to a Stone Gauntlet which, as we've set out above, is also pretty monstrous, what with the 3++ rerollable Rann and 4++ rerollable WS5 Warders, who also just so happen to be able to reroll their standard armour saves against blasts and templates thanks to Heavy.

 

And if neither of those appeals for whatever reason, you can still just load up on rending autocannon and assault cannon, along with rotor cannon, and BS5 the opponent off the table. And in that list, there's still nothing stopping you from just taking that deep-striking Sigismund squad, because Hammerfall is just gravy to get a larger reserves contingent.

"I don't play against Sigismund ever again." Is the downside of stuff which works way too good.

For what anecdotes are worth most players I know only bring special characters for special games anyway.

[Slips]

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/369602-state-of-the-union-heresy/page-119?do=findComment&comment=5810858

 

Here y'all go.

[Scammel]

So many units are so much cheaper across the board that it's quite difficult to know how under-valued certain picks might be, but the IF LA trait certainly seems to be one of the more powerful ones in this new 'boys before toys' world where infantry is the name of the game.

[Slips]

Dorn having Furious Charge 2 means that, on the charge, he is swinging at S10, with Movement 8 that means he gets a baseline +1 to run and charge distances so pretty swank overall.

[Bung]

So many units are so much cheaper across the board that it's quite difficult to know how under-valued certain picks might be, but the IF LA trait certainly seems to be one of the more powerful ones in this new 'boys before toys' world where infantry is the name of the game.

Well nearly all infantry units profit from +1 BS to Bolt Weapons.

And alot of stuff falls into the Auto type.

Improved Rotor cannons, Heavy Bolters etc.

And with LA for any Dreadnought and Vehicle you got alot of units that got a bonus too.

Fire Raptor, 2 Sicaran Variants, Predators with autoconnons, etc.

 

IF will hit with alot of lead and some units got access to Storm Shields and Solarite Gauntlets.

 

With other rules changes which made our special units more durable i think we are one of the Legions that got out on top.

[Slips]

I missed this initially but:

 

Phalanx Warders in Stone Gauntlet get HEART OF THE LEGION which is +1 to FNP when holding an objective. Join an Apothecary to the squad and you have Warders with 3+/4++/4+++ with the invulnerable being re-rollable.

 

I can honestly see this being something that changes on final release.

[The Scorpion]

Agree. Imagine a block of Warders with 4++ and 4+++ in Zone Mortalis. Might as well be considered terrain.

[Scammel]

I hope we see that additional page of wargear soon, to check whether or not out units can now perform the same heavy flamer/assault cannon swap as the Blood Angels - and be elevated from 'cheesiest legion' to 'automatic eviction from gaming group'.

[Bung]

I hope we see that additional page of wargear soon, to check whether or not out units can now perform the same heavy flamer/assault cannon swap as the Blood Angels - and be elevated from 'cheesiest legion' to 'automatic eviction from gaming group'.

I doubt we will be the 'cheesiest legion'

We havent seen the final / Phase 3 Traitor rules.

People are just salty löst their 'No need to use brain' stuff like Medusas and less effektive Plasmaguns cause 'My Meta list aint working' sobs in corner.

 

Plus 'Sky is falling! 2W everywhere will ruin the game!'

[Scammel]

 

I hope we see that additional page of wargear soon, to check whether or not out units can now perform the same heavy flamer/assault cannon swap as the Blood Angels - and be elevated from 'cheesiest legion' to 'automatic eviction from gaming group'.

I doubt we will be the 'cheesiest legion'

We havent seen the final / Phase 3 Traitor rules.

People are just salty löst their 'No need to use brain' stuff like Medusas and less effektive Plasmaguns cause 'My Meta list aint working' sobs in corner.

 

Plus 'Sky is falling! 2W everywhere will ruin the game!'

 

I think the thing with widespread 2W is that there's a premium on S8 AP2 - and thus also good invun saves. In that environment, solarite gauntlets, storm shields and to a lesser extent Warder kit are all in a really good spot.

 

Now, that's all fine and dandy if IF become more focused into a more combat-orientated legion... but I don't think it would be unreasonable for a third party to note that it would be a cake-and-eat-it case if that legion also happens to have BS5 on rending assault cannon that can deep strike via either standard terminator armour or Hammerfall - on top of the rending BS5 autocannon.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Scammel