Strength Capped at 10?

[Fatespinner]

I'm still relatively new to the game, having only been playing for a few months now, but after a game against a more experienced player I am finding that perhaps my understanding of some rules is flawed.  My army is from the Chaos Space Marines codex and, in particular, I field a Maulerfiend for tearing up enemy vehicles and structures.  The Maulerfiend's statline states that it has a strength of 6 and it uses power fists for its primary close combat weapons.  Since the Maulerfiend is a walker, to my understanding it ignores the 'Unwieldy' trait normally associated with the fists and acts normally on Initiative 3.  What I did not understand correctly, according to my opponent, was that there is some hard maximum cap on the strength value of an attack (namely: S10).  Is this true?  The rules for a power fist states that it is user's strength x 2.  Since the Maulerfiend has S6, I was under the impression that its attacks resolve at S12, making it a supremely capable anti-vehicle unit as well as providing the ability to insta-kill T6 or lower units.

 

Was my opponent correct?  We could not find a rule explictly limiting the maximum strength value of an attack, but he insists that the strength of an attack can never exceed 10.  I would like to know if this is the case, because at S10, the Maulerfiend is significantly less awesome.

 

EDIT: For the record, we are still playing with 6th Edition rules.

[Raeven]

It's in the rulebooks under attributes and stat lines.

[Seahawk]

To the best of my finding, Ramming breaks this rule.

[Fatespinner]

It's in the rulebooks under attributes and stat lines.

Doesn't that only limit the strength value of a model, though?  The strength of the model is less than 10 (it's 6), but the strength of the ATTACK ITSELF would be double that, no? Otherwise what's the point in having something with S5+ using a power fist?

[ChaosRising]

Let me attempt to answer this for you, even though 6th is now finished.

 

I'm still relatively new to the game, having only been playing for a few months now, but after a game against a more experienced player I am finding that perhaps my understanding of some rules is flawed.  My army is from the Chaos Space Marines codex and, in particular, I field a Maulerfiend for tearing up enemy vehicles and structures.  The Maulerfiend's statline states that it has a strength of 6 and it uses power fists for its primary close combat weapons.  Since the Maulerfiend is a walker, to my understanding it ignores the 'Unwieldy' trait normally associated with the fists and acts normally on Initiative 3.  What I did not understand correctly, according to my opponent, was that there is some hard maximum cap on the strength value of an attack (namely: S10).  Is this true?  The rules for a power fist states that it is user's strength x 2.  Since the Maulerfiend has S6, I was under the impression that its attacks resolve at S12, making it a supremely capable anti-vehicle unit as well as providing the ability to insta-kill T6 or lower units.

 

Was my opponent correct?  We could not find a rule explictly limiting the maximum strength value of an attack, but he insists that the strength of an attack can never exceed 10.  I would like to know if this is the case, because at S10, the Maulerfiend is significantly less awesome.

 

EDIT: For the record, we are still playing with 6th Edition rules.

 

Everything you need to know about Maulerfiends is in the Chaos Space Marine codex (p.51). Its improved strength is already shown in the profile.

 

Rules for using walkers in combat are in the big rule book (p. 84 - not sure which page for the Dark Vengeance copy). As far as I can tell, the rules for walkers mean that your Maulerfiend would strike at Initiative 1, just like any other model witha powerfist, since the CSM book does not state otherwise.

[Kristoff]

 

Rules for using walkers in combat are in the big rule book (p. 84 - not sure which page for the Dark Vengeance copy). As far as I can tell, the rules for walkers mean that your Maulerfiend would strike at Initiative 1, just like any other model witha powerfist, since the CSM book does not state otherwise.

Power Fist rules for the 6th Edition rulebook CSM codex are in the 6th & 7th Edition rulebooks. They include a special rule called Unwieldy which does not affect Walkers or Monstrous Creatures by its own rules.

[Gurth]

Think of it this way: the damage chart for wounding non-vehicle models only goes to Strength 10. If you could get Strength higher than 10, how would you work out what to roll to wound? (Yes, you can extrapolate, but since there’s no general rule in the book of which the chart is a quick-reference, avoid-the-calculations type of summary, doing so would be conjecture.)

[Raeven]

For 7th edition, it's on page 8 under modifiers.  Only attack and wound stats can be raised above 10.

[*Furyou Miko]

Walkers and the like with DCCWs/PowerFists have a S6 rating even though they're effectively capped to S10 because sometimes, the DCCW gets blown off, reducing the walker to its base stats.

[Seahawk]

What about non-characteristics? For instance, Ramming. It doesn't have a characteristic profile of any kind, and the limitations only apply to the that. We are told how to calculate the strength of the hit, and it doesn't include any limitations. I know it's parsing, but what tells us to do otherwise?

 

For instance, a Leman Russ with a Dozer Blade rams. That'd be 15/2 = 8, +1 for tank +2 for heavy = S11 hit. Yay or nay?

[GreyCrow]

Dozer blades add +1 to the front facing ??

[Dam13n]

For instance, a Leman Russ with a Dozer Blade rams. That'd be 15/2 = 8, +1 for tank +2 for heavy = S11 hit. Yay or nay?

You could make a case for it, but if it were to appear in an FAQ I'd be expecting to see a "to a maximum of S10" in the errata section.

 

I'd cite that the evidence against is:  Characteristics being on a scale of 0-10, modifiers stating that they cannot be increased above 10.  Yes, it's not the models characteristic per-say, but it is still a strength characteristic and should be bound by the characteristic restrictions as listed on page 8.

 

Dozer blades add +1 to the front facing ??

 

For the purposes of ramming, yes.  See page 98 of the BWB.

[Raeven]

What about non-characteristics? For instance, Ramming. It doesn't have a characteristic profile of any kind, and the limitations only apply to the that. We are told how to calculate the strength of the hit, and it doesn't include any limitations. I know it's parsing, but what tells us to do otherwise?

 

For instance, a Leman Russ with a Dozer Blade rams. That'd be 15/2 = 8, +1 for tank +2 for heavy = S11 hit. Yay or nay?

Dunno. Like Dam13n said, the cap seems like it is a pretty hard one and is characteristic based and not tied to models. But vehicles do not have a strength value.

 

Since ramming can only happen against other vehicles and buildings and it wouldnt really require extrapolating any mechanics I would be inclined to allow it.

[Seahawk]

It is tricky wording indeed, and usually it shouldn't matter whether or not you've turned up up to 11 (literally!); a hit that big will usually mess something up good. I'd probably just agree with my opponent one way or the other before the game begins. Luckily, my group enjoys the silly, so we've already all agreed on no Ramming cap...

[Teetengee]

I remember when ramming first came out and DE skimmers with the right upgrades could get guaranteed pens on anything (and then likely explode of course).