++I++ Discussion Area: New Grey Knights Codex for 7e ++I++

[Valerian]

Fellow Knights of Titan,
 
Some of the latest rumors on the internetz, from Lords of War as well as Radio 40k are purporting that the order for 2014 Warhamer 40k codex releases is Orks, followed closely by Space Wolves, and then by Grey Knights.  Whether this bears out will remain to be seen, but for now there is at least some reason to believe that a Grey Knights codex is somewhere just over the horizon. 
 
Now, something that the Moderators over on the Blood Angels sub-forum put together a 'bet thread' as a just-for-fun project to see who among them guesses the most answers to potential questions correctly.  I borrowed the idea and we've implemented it over in The Fang, in anticipation of a possible codex release for the Vlka Venryka in July or August. 
 
The purpose of this thread is to start the process with phase 1, which is determining the right set of questions.  Phase 2 will follow in a separate thread, which is where the actual guesses will be made. 
 
 
Here are the questions that we've come up with so far:
 
 
1.  The Inquisitorial units (Inquisitors and their Henchmen) will be stripped out of the next codex.
 
2.  The special rules for the various Nemesis Weapons will stay the same.
 
3.  Grey Knights will get a unique Psychic Discipline table, in addition to those in The Rules.
 
4.  At least one Headquarters choice will get access to a Personal Teleporter upgrade.
 
5.  Castellan Garran Crowe will become an Independent Character.
 
EDIT: First Build.
 
6.  Special Characters currently without a unique model (Grand Master Mordrak and Justicar Anval Thawn) will be removed from the codex.
 
7.  Grand Master Mordrak and Justicar Anval Thawn will get their own unique models.
 
8.  Psycannons will become Salvo (2/4) weapons.
 
9.  The Temple Assassins will be stripped from the codex.
 
10.  The effects of the specialty grenades will stay the same (Empyrean Brain Mines, Psychotroke, and Rad Grenades).
 
11.  Some units will gain access to Storm Shields (not just Kaldor Draigo).
 
EDIT: Second Build
 
12.  The Brotherhood Champion will gain a Wound.
 
13.  Will gain access to Centurions.
 
14.  Paladins will become T5.
 
15.  Will have more than just two Fast Attack choices.
 
16.  Will have a unique Warlord Trait table.
 
17.  The base cost for a Purifier Squad will increase.
 
18.  The cost for Rad and Psychotrope grenades will increase.
 
19.  They will add at least 1 Justicar upgrade character (i.e. in addition to Anval Thawn).
 
20.  Either Grand Masters or Brother Captains will have an option to swap for Articifer Armour.
 
21.  Will gain two more Headquarters selection options (new types).
 
22.  Apothecary will become an Independant Character.
 
23.  Vehicles will lose access to the Psybolt Ammunition upgrade option.
 
EDIT: Third Build
 
25.  Land Raiders (and variants) will become Dedicated Transport options for Grey Knights Terminators.
 
26.  A unique Dreadknight special character will be introduced.
 
27.  The price will go down on the Dreadknight's Personal Teleporter upgrade option by at least 25 points.
 
28.  Paladins will gain a new special rule/ability, or a unique Psychic Power.
 
29.  Grey Knights will gain a 'Teleport Assault' style special rule.
 
30.  The Brotherhood Champion will get a base Attacks value, and the Battle Stances will be optional.
 
EDIT: Fourth Build
 
31.  Grey Knights will get their own optional FOC chart (a la Orks) with additional Elite slots.
 
32.  The Grand Strategy will be removed from Grand Masters, and will becomes a command benefit of this FOC in addition to 'objective secured' troops, however, there will be no re-roll on the warlord table.
 
33.  Purifiers and Paladins can no longer be taken as Troops, but Crowe and Draigo provide 'objective secured' to their Purifers and Paladins respectively.

 

34.  Dreadnoughts will gain access to Deep Strike.

 

35.  Venerable Dreadnought entry will be removed, and Venerable will be an upgrade for regular Dreadnoughts.
 
 

 

 
Once we get to a decent number, we'll cut off submission for new questions, and start focusing on the bets themselves.
 
 
 
Valerian

[lt051]

Will we lose characters without a unique model as of now

[IndigoJack]

Psycannons loose Assault 2/Heavy 4, become salvo 2/4, range get's upped to 36".

[Quozzo]

• The bro' champ will have new/different special rules

   

   

• The Bro' champ will have more than one wound.

 

...and by extension, Crowe.

[Gentlemanloser]

GK will get access to Centurion

 

Paladin will gain T5

 

The GK Codex will have more than two options for the Fast FoC slot

 

The GK Codex will have its own Warlord Trait Chart

 

Edit: Will Draigo be removed from the Codex and reintorduced after its release as a Dataslate?

[jeffersonian000]

As I've stated elsewhere, I firmly believe the me GK Codex will be a supplement for the SM Codex, all of the non-GK units will be stripped out, and there will be no new GK models. They will be adding Relics, updating our special rules, and updating unit options. I don't see Storm Shields in our future, because that option is not available in the current model sets. Mordrak and Thawn are staying, because both can be made from the current GKT box set, although they might change Thawn's name due to copyright reasons.

 

Basically, we'll get the BT treatment, but we'll still be in our own book with our own rules and unique units. Plan to see Space Wolves and Blood Angels done the same way.

 

SJ

[Valerian]

The purpose of this thread, as described in the OP, is to establish the baseline for the questions.  We're not at the point of making our guesses/placing our bets; that'll come in phase 2 in a separate thread.  Do you have any Yes/No questions to propose?

 

V

[Quozzo]

• We will get an alpha strike option, other than Shunt.

• Paladins will be reduced to 1W and increased to T5.

• Brother Captain and/or Grand Master will get a complete overhaul.

• We will become a dataslate

[Captain Coolpants]

Bro champ will get an overhal

 

Nades will become more expensive, as will purifiers base cost

 

Psycannons will stay the same (to make up for the lack of low ap shooting)

 

Mordrak will become a dataslate

 

Stern will be left alone.

 

Something will be done to paladins (no idea what)

 

Assassins will get a dataslate for any army using inquisition allies.

 

They'll clarify certain force weapon rules (falchions, greatsword)

 

Adjust the dreadknight in some way, character maybe? Point changes? Both?

 

Hopefully they include more upgrade justicars like thawn. Including an interceptor model.

 

Allow grand masters to take artificer armour.

 

Adjustments to grand strategy

 

2 new HQ characters.

 

And that's all I'll do for now :-P

[lt051]

Psilencers will get overhauled/buffed

 

And ][ stormtroopers will be revived, regardless if it in our dex or a dedicated inquisition one

[jeffersonian000]

Psilencers will get overhauled/buffed

 

And ][ stormtroopers will be revived, regardless if it in our dex or a dedicated inquisition one

Storm Troopers were revived. They're call Scions now, and have their own Codex. Tempestus Militorum literally means Storm Troopers.

 

SJ

[IndigoJack]

Changes to pysbolt ammo. Either new rules, vehicles won't have access to it, it will become more expensive, or some combination of all three.

[lt051]

 

Psilencers will get overhauled/buffed

 

And ][ stormtroopers will be revived, regardless if it in our dex or a dedicated inquisition one

Storm Troopers were revived. They're call Scions now, and have their own Codex. Tempestus Militorum literally means Storm Troopers.

 

SJ

I should clarify I guess, I meant in a more direct manner, maybe as a wa upgrade or something. As is taking a scion platoon is a little wonky mixed with gk/inq, especially when you consider orders. Not having access to bs4 or infiltrate on wa just doesn't feel right

[Valerian]

We will get an alpha strike option, other than Shunt.

Please be more specific. I want to ensure, to the best of my ability, that we'll be able to difinitely make a yes/no call whenever the codex is released.  

 

 

Brother Captain and/or Grand Master will get a complete overhaul.

Again, please provide specific examples of what would be overhauled, so that in the end we can say, "yep, they made that change" or, "nope, didn't happen."

 

 

 

The bro' champ will have new/different special rules

Like what? Instead, I'd ask something like: "The Brotherhood Champion will regain his Last Strike ability", or, "the Brotherhood Champion will get a base number of Attacks, and the Battle Stances will be optional..."

 

Trying to get as specific as possible, instead of "fill-in-the-blank will be changed."

 

 

Bro champ will get an overhal

See above; please be specific. Overhauled in what way?

 

 

 

Something will be done to paladins (no idea what)

 

Adjust the dreadknight in some way, character maybe? Point changes? Both?

 

Adjustments to grand strategy

For these three, what kind of adjustments?

[IndigoJack]

Land Raider (and variants) as dedicated transports for GKT, paladins and henchmen.

 

Integration of the inquisition codex changes to henchman into into GKs (valkyries as dedicated transports, priests as part of henchman squads, changes to DCA applying to GK DCA)

[Captain Coolpants]

Bro champ will gain a wound (he is a bodyguard after all)

Bro champagne will also have the option for a personal teleporter

Will get Base attacks.

Will be 125 points base

 

Grand masters will be able to have artificer armour and teleporter

Grand strategy will either be deleted, or made D6 abilities of lesser power.(Interceptor, move through cover ruins only, keep scout, deepstrike, keep unyielding anvil)

 

Paladin will gain their own ability, probably some forms of flamer template power and some bodyguard power (an auto lookout sir) or a power to increase their toughness.

 

Dreadknights will get a helberd, or some weapon to increase initiative. The Greatsword will grant +1 strength and will be a completely separate weapon (so no more power fist re-rolls) which makes sense because the model still has hammerhand, what would be the point in having hammerhand if the model always strikes with strength 10 anyway.

And a small cost decrease for the teleporter. I'm hoping down to a least 50 points. But as daemons can get wings (which are way better) for just 40pts, I'm hoping we match that.

They will also make a unique Dreadknight character.

[Quozzo]

Please be more specific. I want to ensure, to the best of my ability, that we'll be able to difinitely make a yes/no call whenever the codex is released.

For the Alpha Strike option, we will have some way to include specific units (SM gets to choose their drop pods for example) which will then be able to enter the table from reserves during turn 1. This could be simply choosing half of your army in reserves or a sort of TGS option in which you can choose 1D3 units, separate from a specific model, ie. Mordrak.

 

Again, please provide specific examples of what would be overhauled, so that in the end we can say, "yep, they made that change" or, "nope, didn't happen."

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the GKGM will remain relatively the same, so the Brother-Captain will be the option that changes. Different starting armour, or the choice to change armour and a specail rule aside from the usual GK ones (whatever they may be in the future). Basically (which is probably not what you want) Something to signify that taking the B-C will confer something different that the GKGM can't bring too. Like take a free Brotherhood Champion that doesn't take up a FOC slot for example.

 

Like what? Instead, I'd ask something like: "The Brotherhood Champion will regain his Last Strike ability", or, "the Brotherhood Champion will get a base number of Attacks, and the Battle Stances will be optional..."

 

Trying to get as specific as possible, instead of "fill-in-the-blank will be changed."

I dont want to be specific on this one, anything different will constitute a different rule. If there is a rule which basically lets him insta-kill an enemy model without a psychic test that would be the same. I didn't really want to pedantic about it as I'm sure we can state whether or not the criteria has been met without needing to look up a whole set of definitions and cross referencing them with a list of contradictions.

 

 

There are a few suggestion that are similar from different people, like adjustments to paladins and brotherhood champions. In that case I think its best to take the most popular option, from vote maybe, or perhaps just consolidate the ideas meaining any ambiguity will be purged.

 

Another idea:

• GK units will get their own unique abilities (psychic powers/special rule)

[Valerian]

Team,

 

We're up to a total of 30 questions, based on input received so far.  I encourage everyone to go back through the original post to look at the questions, to ensure I've captured the best ones.  Several of those recently recommended were already identified in the list in the post at the top of the thread.  It'd be nice to get to at least 40 questions, but I will cap it at 50. 

 

Thanks again to those who have been participating so far.

 

V

[IndigoJack]

Grey Knights get their own FOC chart (a la orks) with additional elite slots. Grand Strategy is removed from Grand Masters, and becomes a command benefit of this FOC in addition to 'objective secured' troops, however, there will be no re-roll on the warlord table.

 

Purifiers and Paladins can no longer be taken as troops, but Crowe and Draigo provide 'objective secured' to their Purifers and Paladins respectively.

[Valerian]

Good ones, IJ, I've added them in to the OP at the top.  We probably just need a few more to lock these in and start the bets.  Once folks get their paws on the codex Orks, we'll probably find some more suggestions like these last few.

 

V

[Adeptus]

Purifiers will lose 2 heavy weapon slots, so they can only take 1 psycannon for five men.

[Captain Coolpants]

The Inquisitorial units (Inquisitors and their Henchmen) will be stripped out of the next codex. Yes

 

2. The special rules for the various Nemesis Weapons will stay the same. No

 

3. Grey Knights will get a unique Psychic Discipline table, in addition to those in The Rules. Yes

 

4. At least one Headquarters choice will get access to a Personal Teleporter upgrade. Yes

 

5. Castellan Garran Crowe will become an Independent Character. Yes

 

EDIT: First Build.

 

6. Special Characters currently without a unique model (Grand Master Mordrak and Justicar Anval Thawn) will be removed from the codex. No

 

7. Grand Master Mordrak and Justicar Anval Thawn will get their own unique models. Yes

 

8. Psycannons will become Salvo (2/4) weapons. No

 

9. The Temple Assassins will be stripped from the codex. Yes

 

10. The effects of the specialty grenades will stay the same (Empyrean Brain Mines, Psychotroke, and Rad Grenades). Yes

 

11. Some units will gain access to Storm Shields (not just Kaldor Draigo). No (although I want them too)

 

EDIT: Second Build

 

12. The Brotherhood Champion will gain a Wound. Yes

 

13. Will gain access to Centurions. No and I don't want to

 

14. Paladins will become T5. No

 

15. Will have more than just two Fast Attack choices. Yes

 

16. Will have a unique Warlord Trait table. Yes

 

17. The base cost for a Purifier Squad will increase. Yes (sad face)

 

18. The cost for Rad and Psychotrope grenades will increase. Yes (so face again)

 

19. They will add at least 1 Justicar upgrade character (i.e. in addition to Anval Thawn). Yes (I hope!)

 

20. Either Grand Masters or Brother Captains will have an option to swap for Articifer Armour. Yes

 

21. Will gain two more Headquarters selection options (new types). Yes

 

22. Apothecary will become an Independant Character. No

 

23. Vehicles will lose access to the Psybolt Ammunition upgrade option. No (but points will increase)

 

EDIT: Third Build

 

25. Land Raiders (and variants) will become Dedicated Transport options for Grey Knights Terminators. Yes

 

26. A unique Dreadknight special character will be introduced. Yes

 

27. The price will go down on the Dreadknight's Personal Teleporter upgrade option by at least 25 points. No (but I want it tooo)

 

28. Paladins will gain a new special rule/ability, or a unique Psychic Power. Yes

 

29. Grey Knights will gain a 'Teleport Assault' style special rule. No unfortunately

 

30. The Brotherhood Champion will get a base Attacks value, and the Battle Stances will be optional. Yes

 

EDIT: Fourth Build

 

31. Grey Knights will get their own optional FOC chart (a la Orks) with additional Elite slots. No idea, probably not

 

32. The Grand Strategy will be removed from Grand Masters, and will becomes a command benefit of this FOC in addition to 'objective secured' troops, however, there will be no re-roll on the warlord table. That actually makes sense so probably yes

 

33. Purifiers and Paladins can no longer be taken as Troops, but Crowe and Draigo provide 'objective secured' to their Purifers and Paladins respectively. Yes

[Sothalor]

Well, if the new Ork codex is any indication, say goodbye to Mordrak, Thawn, and Valeria.

 

Looking at what they could potentially release alongside an update (in terms of models), I would expect based on current gaps in coverage a plastic Brotherhood Champion along the lines of the new Ork Mek and Painboy.

[Valerian]

JBat, we aren't at the point of placing our bets yet; that will come later in a separate thread. As described in the OP, the purpose of this thread is to come up with the best questions.

[Captain Coolpants]

JBat, we aren't at the point of placing our bets yet; that will come later in a separate thread. As described in the OP, the purpose of this thread is to come up with the best questions.

ohhh lol. *facepalm*

Ignore me then! Haha :-P