Need help starting a pre-heresy Emperor's Children army

[qyntius]

Hey there I'm a returning wh40k chaos player and I'm looking to start a 30k army, but I have a few questions before I buy all the parts I need. I was hhoping I could get some insight into a few 30k modeling and 40k transition problems. (I will still be playing 40k and hope I can use some pieces in both games).

 

The first question is what do you recommend for making the troop blobs with, I am leaning towards vanilla space marines with maybe a few green stuff adjustments, some viling and emperors children shoulderpads from fw. The second option would be to convert my already owned chaos, but I feel like EC are too neat for that, conquest for perfection and all. Fw models would be best, but are literally twice as expensive. How did you guys model your troops?

 

I'm also curious about the willingness of most 40k opponents to play against a 30k list. I understood that 30k works better at high points due to cheaper squad expansions and ridiculous lords of war, so around 1850-2000 would be a fair match up in 30k vs 40k?

 

Lastly a rule question, I want to play apothecarians, terminators, contemptor mortis, and Palantine's. These are 4 elite options, but do they all count as an elite option even when Palantines will join Hq and apothec's will join the footslogging marine

 

Im very excited to start, and any advice for a newbie is welcome

[Kilofix]

1. You could just buy 40K Loyalist Space Marine models to use as 30K EC which wore the Emperor's Aquila back then anyways. The Sarum rebreather (which resembles the MK VII) was also already in use then too.

 

2. Most of the folks I play 40K with prefer not to play against an army using 30K rules, but there's nothing stopping you from playing your 30K army as a loyalist 40K army with Apoths, Terminators, Contemptors and Palatines (the latter of which could be Vets).

 

3. Your Apoths and Palatines count as separate Elite options but good thing about 30K - you get 4 Elite options.

[qyntius]

Thanks for shedding light on those issues. I was afraid of people not wanting to play against 30k. Hopefully I can find some people interesting in playing 30k theirselves. I'm really glad about the 4 Elite options, that's 1 tough choice less to make. Thanks for taking the time to take away some of my worries :)

[tdemayo]

You could also use the Chaos SM codex to represent a legion force in 40t. It's not as competitive, but it's a lot more flexible, allowing 20 man foot squads, small squads of special weapons (chosen, havoks), combiweapon terminator with swords, and so forth. The csm squads and the chosen units are highly flexible, allowing you to represnt many different configurations. Creative use of marks and standards would allow you ersatz counts-as bonuses for more unusual legion kit. For example, you could add mark of Nurgle to give breacher squads +1 t. It's not quite the same as the real rules, but with some creativity it could make do.

[qyntius]

You could also use the Chaos SM codex to represent a legion force in 40t. It's not as competitive, but it's a lot more flexible, allowing 20 man foot squads, small squads of special weapons (chosen, havoks), combiweapon terminator with swords, and so forth. The csm squads and the chosen units are highly flexible, allowing you to represnt many different configurations. Creative use of marks and standards would allow you ersatz counts-as bonuses for more unusual legion kit. For example, you could add mark of Nurgle to give breacher squads +1 t. It's not quite the same as the real rules, but with some creativity it could make do.

 

I will propably end up doing both, giving me 3 different rulesets for the same units. It will be difficult to not compromise too much early on, but later I´ll hopefully have enough options to run from three fun codexes.

 

The last 2 days I've been studying the Horus Heresy rule books and the new 7th edition brb, and I have come up with some rough lines for a list around 1850-2000 to start working towards. I'm having trouble guessing the effectiveness of each unit, not having played for a while and at the moment I'm out of the country and unable to playtest the new rules. I'm humbly asking you guys insight on these ideas.

 

My main, relatively unchanged, core so far is:

 

HQ

Eidolon

 

Elite

5 Palantine

1 Apothecary

1 Contemptor Mortis

 

Troops

20 Tactical Marines

 

Heavy Support

Land Raider

 

The first problem is a second Contemptor vs Terminators. Seeing as Deep Strike isn't automatically available, I would either need to take a specific rite of war or a second Land Raider to house the terminators. Alternatively I could also opt to give the Palantines and Eidolon a Jump Pack, and take the Terminators in a Land Raider. Although the thought of Eidolon using a jump pack strikes me as odd.

 

In the Troops department I'm considering either adding an Assault Squad or just a second Tactical Squad with an apothecary. Although I really like the concept of Assault marines, I question the cost since they remain the same squishy MEQ.

 

I'm completely lost on the Fast Attack portion as all the options seem underwhelming compared to the Heavy Support options. Is it possible to create a good list without fast attacks, or am I oblivious to the strength of Outriders, and Jetbikes. The Javelin seems okay, but a little expensive considering I'm building this list mostly from scratch and 3 go into a squad.

 

Lastly in Heavy Support I'm debating a Predator Squad against a Vindicator, or  as mentioned above a second land raider for Terminators. Normally the 3x Predators would be an easy win, but a vindicator seems better in 40k and also the same argument of money is valid here.

 

A mech list with a second contemptor, 3 predators, and Javelins would seem very strong, but I was hoping something a little more close combat oriented that made more use out of Eidolon's Warlord trait and the increased run distance.

[Kilofix]

The following are my thoughts from playing Death Guard in 30K, as Loyalist 40K and as Chaos 40K.

 

While I have other units (like Emperor's Children, etc. that I also use in my 40K lists), my usual 30K DG list consists of:

 

• Mortarion - I use Morty for his DG Legion buffs and if I want to have the DG RoW. I find the Praetor less effective for his points, so I go straight to Morty if the point level is high enough
• Consul - I like using him as a Siege Breaker to buff my Missile Squad and to take Phosphex Medusas but sometimes I run him as a Master of Signal instead
• Apothacary - 3 of them (1 for each Tactical, 1 for the Heavy Weap)
• Contemptor Mortis - 1 of them with dual AutoCannon primarily for anti-air
• Terminators - 2 squads of 10 (I keep them cheap with Grenade Harness and PS for the Sgt, 1 Chain Fist, and Power Axe for the rest). They can be hard to kill if your opponent forgets to bring Plasma
• Tactical Marines - 2 squads of 20 (Vox, Vex, Sgt has Artificer and PF) but sometimes I run them as 4 squads of 10 - which cost more points wise but provide more flexibility
• Heavy Support - 2 squads of 5 Missile Launchers
• Spartan Land Raider
• Vindicator
• Plasma Predators - 1 squad of 2
• Medusas - 1 squad of 2

 

I also have a Storm Eagle, Sicaran, Scropius, Kharybdis, Support Squad with Flamers, Support Squad with Melta, and Bikes for 30K but lately, I hardly use these.

 

Per your questions:

 

1. I generally prefer Terminators to Contemptor because its harder to kill a whole squad of Terminators with a handful Lascannons which my opponent will almost always have in the form of a Spartan. Having a Contemptor or two though is good for anti-air.

 

2. I don't run Assault squads (because they don't fit thematically with Death Guard) but I've seen others do it and there's one big benefit to them - Melta Bombs. With alot of Armored Ceramite in 30K, Meltaguns are less effective but Melta Bombs are still fully effective and Assault Squads can deliver them in numbers as the whole squad can be equipped with them. You can get an Apothecary for an Assault Squad by using a Medicae Consul w/Jump Pack

 

3. If you don't go with Assault Squads then consider taking Outriders with Melta Bombs

 

4. The Vindicator can be devastating if you have enough terrain to block LOS to allow it to get close. I always take it with Dozer Blade, so that it can pop out through cover terrain. The other problem with Vindi is you can only take 1 per slot. While I take Vindis, I also do take Plasma Preds for anti-TEQ. Lately I'm seeing more lists with Scorpius and Preds though but even after trying such, I still prefer Vindi and Preds.

[tdemayo]

What are you all using for AA?  Or are aircraft not a significant problem for you?

[Kilofix]

1 Contemptor Mortis if I expect a single aircraft, 2 Contemptor Mortis if I expect a couple of aircraft and a Firestorm Redoubt if I expect a lot of aircraft.

[GodEmperorOfMankind]

Going back to Termies, you can take a legion dreadclaw as a dedicated transport for termies of 5 or less. You Didn't know what to put in your FA slots, why not Storm Eagles? You can transport more termies or troops.

 

As for troops, I like Breachers, and if your group allows you could field your army as a siege assault list?