Dataslate Discussion: Adeptus Astartes Stormwing

[Jolemai]

There are a number of independent Dataslates available for the Blood Angels to use but to date, there is little discussion into there use and synergy with our forces. The aim of this article is to 1) share and impart our collective knowledge to our fellow captains and 2) to get some discussion going on the lesser-known potential boons to our forces. I want this thread to remain in flux and will happily edit the first post as people reply with their own ideas so we can get the optimal use out of each unit.

Further discussion guides can be found from post #6 onwards on the BA resource thread

Availability

The official version of the dataslate can be found here. Alternatively, a naughty copy can be googled... The official models can be found here (Stormtalon) and here (Stormraven), however, I would recommend going to your preferred online external retailer as you're likely to save a lot of cash. Of course, you could always scratch build them...

Please note that this is the same Formation that can be found in Codex: Adeptus Astartes Space Marines and it has been updated to match the current edition of that book.

Rules

Generic Rules

• One Stormraven Gunship escorted by two Stormtalon Gunships. Rules are as per Codex: Space Marines
• Grants the Stormraven the Strafing Run special rule (+1 BS against any model that's not a Flyer or Skimmer) whilst one Stormtalon remains alive
• One reserve roll required. When passed, all three models arrive. Must be within 6"
• Stormraven rules and upgrades as per C:BA
• Stormtalon is AV 11/11/11 HP 2 BS 4 Flyer, Hover. It comes with a twin-linked assault cannon, twin-linked heavy bolter and ceramite plating, with the options to upgrade the heavy bolter to either a typhoon missile launcher, twin-linked lascannon or a skyhammer missile launcher. Special rules include Strafing Run and Vectored Afterburners (If Zooming, it can go an extra 6" Flat Out. If Hovering, it gains +1 Jink)

See below for the pros and cons of using this Dataslate for our forces:

Pros

• Additional detachment (so it doesn't impede on your primary FOC slots and still allows an allied detachment should you wish)
• Gives us access to Stormtalon Gunships outside of using C:SM
• Strafing Run on the Stormraven is great
• Easiest way of getting a fourth Stormraven into your army
• No HQ or Troop tax from using an Allied Detachment or other FoC source.
• Following the 7th edition, BA units may now being the game embarked in this Stormraven and may embark during the game

Cons

• Without upgrades, this formation cost the same as 22 barebones Death Company

Use

With the changes to the seventh edition, we can now transport our units on this Stormraven from reserve. Almost always a great choice to deliver a Dreadnought, one of the best infantry choices to go inside are Scouts as they can be used for late game scoring. Note that both the Scouts and any Dreadnought with a magna grapple automatically pass Dangerous Terrain tests so you can uses Skies of Fury without concern. Use of this Stormraven is pretty much the same as a C:BA one.

In my opinion, this Stormraven should be armed with a target priority in mind and the Stormtalons can either supplement this, or go after their own targets. Remember that later in the game, the Stormraven can be again used a transport should you wish - no embarking with a Relic in a certain Eternal War mission though!

A typical loadout for a BA Stormraven is the TLMM and TLAC. For many of us, we choose this as we're going to get the Stormraven up close to drop off a Dreadnought, etc, and the weapon choices compliment our Stormstrike Missiles. A Stormstrike Missile is 72", STR 8, AP 2, Concussive. Whilst still decent against vehicles, it is a very good TEQ and MC killer so you could easily opt for a TLLC and either the TML or TLHB to make use of the PotMS rule. The TLPC is always a debatable choice, but it does have a niche for a gunship that's not shooting fliers or vehicles. Keep in mind that provided a Stormtalon is alive, this Stormraven has BS 5 against anything that's not a Flyer or Skimmer and coupled with a suitable Legacy of Glory this can be huge.

The Stormtalon comes with a TLAC and a TLHB. The TLHB can be switched out for Skyhammer Missiles (60", STR 7, AP 4, Heavy 3), TLLC or TML, which can either aid with MC hunting or troop hunting. It just depends on your configuration.

Finally it should also be noted that taking the Iron Hands Chapter Tactics will give the three Flyers It Will Not Die and this should not be overlooked. (Disclaimer: Note that there is some debate on whether or not this is permitted.)

Fighter Aces - Space Marines

This deserves it's own section. Originally found in Death from the Skies these rules have since been updated in Shield of Baal: Leviathan and as the most recent publication, these are the ones that should be used. Also, the ones in SoB:Leviathan are cheaper and more up to date rules-wise.

In any mission that doesn't have the Fight Ace special rule to it, you can upgrade any of your Flyers to receive one for the price of seven melta bombs. Then you roll a D6 and consult the following Space Marine table:

• 1-2: Auto-targetting System - Flyer has BS +1
• 3-4: Vectored Retro-thrusters - Pivot up to 180 instead of 90 degrees prior to movement
• 5-6: Wraith of the Emperor - One use only. Declare use at the start of your turn and the Fighter Ace and anything of faction C:SM within 12" has the Preferred Enemy special rule for that turn

Of these, every Flyer can benefit from +1 BS (especially the Stormraven as it will be +2 BS total) and the extra 90 degree pivot means you don't have to move in a diamond the whole game. Wraith of the Emperor is arguably better on a transport to maximise the potential of preferred enemy but, will only work if you have some C:SM in your army. In short they are potentially worth getting but your Flyer is already becoming quite expensive as it is...

Summary

This is a method of getting a Stormraven when your Heavy Support slots are full (and you don't wish to use another CAD/BSF/whatever) and a way of getting a couple of Stormtalons without the HQ and Troop tax from using C:SM. It adds something a little different to some of our lists and may well be worth some consideration.

As always, I'd love to hear your thoughts so reply below and I'll edit the above as we go along.

[Venemox]

If Blood Angels are capable of getting into the Stormraven during the game, why would they not be able to start in it?  it's not a dedicated transport, and the Independent Formation rule only references C:SM with regards to both starting and embarking upon it.  It specifically grants them permission to do so, which in 7th already exists for battle brother allies.

[TheSauce]

I agree that you could start BA units in the formation stormraven in 7th edition, as it's not a dedicated transport.

 

I'm a huge fan of this formation, especially because of the stormtalons. Their turret AC can rotate 360 degrees (unlike the stormraven's), and can give you some rear armor shots on the turn they arrive. Plus BS5 means you almost always get 4 hits.

 

I wish BA could take stormtalons outside of the formation (maybe in the next codex) as they're about 2 for 1 with the stormraven, and bring a lot of firepower. I always take skyhammer missile launchers, and I'm always pleased with the results.

 

One final thing you didn't mention is that every model in the formation has to arrive within 6" of where the first model did, Which can make placing them a little more difficult.

[Venemox]

Each Stormtalon has to enter the board from within 6" of where the escorted craft entered.  They are allowed to do so at different angles for their movement, thus can end up in drastically different positions on the board.  This eases the burden somewhat.

[Jolemai]

Cheers, edited about the 6".

 

As for the embarkation point, I'm honestly not sure. Can you deploy in a transport that belongs to someone else, or is that restriction just for dedicated transports?

[Corvus_Danseur]

I just used this formation in two games for the first time two days ago. Game 1 it helped me blow away some Iyaden Eldar. Game 2 they were the only surviving units against some heavily cheesy SoB. Overall I liked it a lot, brings a lot of flexible fire-power.

 

In my reading of the rules I think we can place units inside from the start with the new alliance rules. I may of course be wrong on this. I think that restriction is just for dedicated transports but as don't have rulebook to hand can't be sure. My gaming group was happy with me loading it up... partly as I also pointed out that in the fluff in the data-slate the Blood Angels use it... and that basically was just a way of getting Stormclaws into my air/fast attack themed force! BS5 on the Raven is a nice bonus, but not game breaking. 

 

Skyhammer missiles are great, but lack of twin-linked can sometimes be a pain in the proverbial rear if the dice gods are against you. 

 

I've used the Raven fitted out for tank hunting with multi melta and lascannons, one Claw with TLLascannon and one with Skyhammer missiles to have some flexibility in dealing with both enemy armour, monstrous creatures and fliers.

 

Against the Eldar this worked very well as the crimson hunter fell to the Skyhammer Stormclaw with the help of machine spirit controlled lascannons from the Raven. Leaving the rest available to continue to fire against ground targets. Turn 2 on arrival their combined firepower killed an entire unit of Wraith Guard. Against the SoB they were good, destroying three Exorcists, one Thunder-fire cannon/techmarine and a few sisters. Was just that by that point the sisters had killed the rest of my force! 

 

Only slight problem is that in smaller points games 450ish points is rather a lot of your force waiting in reserve... 

[Remtek]

 

In my opinion, this Stormraven is best served as a gunship rather than a transport. With that in mind, it should be armed with a target priority in mind and the Stormtalons can either supplement this, or go after their own targets. Then later in the game, it can be used a transport should you wish.

 

For example, a typical loadout for a BA Stormraven is the TLMM and TLAC. For many of us, we choose this as we're going to get the Stormraven up close to drop off a Dreadnought, etc, and the weapon choices compliment our Bloodstrike Missiles. A Stormstrike Missile is 72", STR 8, AP 2, Concussive. Whilst still decent against vehicles, it is a very good TEQ and MC killer so you could easily opt for a TLLC and either the TML or TLHB to make use of the PotMS rule. The TLPC is always a debatable choice, but it does have a niche for a gunship that's not shooting fliers or vehicles.

 

 

 

I think hover mode will be superior in many situations due to the new jink rule. Av12 with 4+ jink is roughly the same survivability as a Land Raider without cover, in addition the Ceramic Plating makes moving into melta areas less of a threat. Most flyers wont have the luxary of jinking due to sacrificing to much offence. High str assault units will still be a large threat though, but with the new jink it should be able to withstand 6-7 lascannon shots without being worried. 9 LC shots hitting on 3+ vs a jinking SR suprisingly only totals at 1.5pens 0,5 glances on avg. 

 

If we are using it as a transport it will generally never hover the turn it comes in, but the turn after giving the option of assaulting from it. Once it goes to hover all missiles will be depleted which makes jinking a no brainer as we still can fire one shot at full bs (POTMS). The new jink change will make sponsons less useful as most of the time they will be snapfiring.

[SonOfThunder]

POTMS skips jinks?...Don't have the rulebook with me, but doesn't jinking make all shots from the vehicle snap fire during the next turn? POTMS is still the same vehicle firing...I just want to be on solid grounds when I tell my opponent:) This is not how I've been using it till now.

 

Following that full BS reasoning, can POTMS be used to fire at full BS one of your guns even if the vehicle is shaken or stunned?...what about shooting at a zooming flyer if you're not zooming yourself? If someone tried to do that to me I'd totally feel they're trying to abuse the rules...

[Jolemai]

Sadly, this is incorrect.

 

Yes, PotMS allows you to fire a shot at full BS, but the full BS of a jinking Stormraven is 1.

[Jolemai]

SonOfThunder, if you have a few minutes, there's a long winded discussion about that in the OR forum. However, you'll probably want to gauge your eyes out afterwards.

[SonOfThunder]

That's what I would have thought, Jolemai :)

 

That thread is too long and convoluted. I've read the first 10 posts or so, and I'm inclined to believe full BS would mean the current vehicle BS, which is 1. So if you jink, your POTMS also snap fires. Just as if you're shaken and stunned.

 

I did ask some of my local players that have attended many tournaments though, and apparently the "official" (not GW, but TOs and the like) take is that POTMS is full BS regardless of other factors such as jinking or vehicle damage.

 

This could probably use a FAQ...

[Remtek]

PotMS can be used when moving a land raider 12" or stunned, i'd assume that applies to jinks as well.

"A vehicle that moved at Cruising Speed can only make Snap Shots" which PotMS overrides.

 

PoMS:

"In a turn in which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor uses smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted. In addition, this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting. " Wouldt they include jink and cruising speed in this paragraph?

 

It has two intensions; to split fire or fire an extra shot when normally not permitted.  

 

Edit: Kept on reading the the rule books, the rules are so ambigous on this. I agree it needs a FAQ, but i have never played a game vs somene that didt use PoMS while stunned or moving cruising speed. 

 

Might be better to do this in another thread. Regardless of the rule, the new formation is pretty cool. Seen tournaments that only allow a formation OR allies, not both. 

[Jolemai]

The Jink rule states that when used, the following turn all shots are counted as a Snap Shot.

 

For all intents and purposes, those weapons allowed to make Snap Shots are treated as being BS 1.

 

PotMS allows you to shoot at full BS. Having used Jink, your BS is 1 so firing at full BS means you are shooting with BS 1.

 

Finally, the Snap Shot rules state that the BS of a Snap Shot can only be modified if a special rule allows it. PotMS does not specify and therefore, does not modify the BS of a weapon being fired as a Snap Shot.

 

 

 

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I've also edited the OP regarding the embarkation point as there is no argument against it.

[SonOfThunder]

This thread to discuss the Stormwing formation is starting to look like the POTMS thread again ;) 

[Remtek]

Yeah, its ambigous at best. The wording is bad. Tournaments officials are allowing it so we will still use POMS for jink, stun and cruising speed.

 

If you want to be semantic you could say your bs is never 1 when snapfiring.

 

"If a model is forced to make Snap Shots rather than shoot normally, then its Ballistic Skill is counted as being 1 for the purpose of those shots"

Rules as written you are never forced to make snapshots, you do however have the option of not shooting.  We clearly see what they intend, but they should write. "If you shoot you must do so at bs1" or something like that.

 

How you play POTMS  rule will have a huge impact on the playstyle. I'd check around before buying the models though. It ha played as an extra shot (hence not a bs1 shot) 

 

It's the same as moving 6 and using POTMS. Since a non fast veichle can only fire  one weapon when moving combat speed it and can fire 2 due to potms, because this is entirely a seperate shot action unaffected bye previous actions (with the exception of popping smoke and flatout)

[Remtek]

The Jink rule states that when used, the following turn all shots are counted as a Snap Shot.

For all intents and purposes, those weapons allowed to make Snap Shots are treated as being BS 1.

PotMS allows you to shoot at full BS. Having used Jink, your BS is 1 so firing at full BS means you are shooting with BS 1.

Finally, the Snap Shot rules state that the BS of a Snap Shot can only be modified if a special rule allows it. PotMS does not specify and therefore, does not modify the BS of a weapon being fired as a Snap Shot.

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I've also edited the OP regarding the embarkation point as there is no argument against it.

This is incorrect, your unit is still BS4 after jinking, but resolved at 1 when performing the snap shot.

With this logic you can't use foreboding on overwatch aswell.

"Foreboding is a blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst this power is in effect, the Psyker and his unit have the Counter-attack special rule and fire Overwatch using their full Ballistic Skill, rather than Ballistic Skill 1. Note that this does not allow weapons that could not normally fire Overwatch to do so"

Same here, the spell makes no mention of snap shots so by your terms the unit can't use the benifits of this spell when overwatching BS1 is applied when the shot is peformed in all forms of snap shots. (cruising speed/stunned/overwatch/jink). It dosnt changes the units full BS to 1, that dosnt make any sense as they clearly mean full bs is the units sheet bs.

[Shaezus]

Nice thread Jolemai, thanks for taking the time to do your dataslate discussions.

 

I see some kung-fu leaps of logic going on here, so I'm staying out of that. It's simple enough when you read specific rules so there's really no need to put forward obtuse and abstract arguments. In the interests of not wasting time and derailing a good thread, I'll just say people should check with their TO on things beforehand.

[Remtek]

Not my intention to be obtuse, simply trying to make an argument. Apologize if it was taken that way. I agree this is not the place to discuss rules so lets just agree to disagree

Back to the topic at hand, jink or no jink i do belive using it for assault is optimal in most situations as missles are depleted in turn 3 (hover). So you jink in the hover phase and go back to zooming the next turn if your not using potms. The ability to get a close to guaranteed assault from a strong unit is worth so much strategically.

[Seathal]

I actually bought the stormwing kit when it came out, for 110 EUR it was a steep discount from the individual models (basically one stormtalon almost for free).

I like the whole dimension they bring up to your army, you will statistically dominate the skies and be a major pain in the ass to basically all the units. I would target Skyfire units first and then help the ground troops since maintaining air dominance will force your opponent to waste snapshots trying to take them down or risk their key units to them. They are 450 points (before any upgrades) in reserve, that's something to consider. That is mitigated if they benefit from a re-roll on reserve like Lias Issodon has or certain warlord traits because you reduce the risk of them coming later than turn 2, where they can inflict the most damage. And having Strafing Run on the stormraven whilst the talons are alive is a good bonus.

 

I don't know about loading the stormraven up or just using it as a platform. If I loaded it up I'd certainly deepstrike them somewhere safe (or with a locator beacon) instead of trying to hover and assault. I'm thinking on loading them up with a 5 man melta sternguard and a iron-clad dreadnought in bigger games. Still thinking on it.

 

It is a formation that looks frigging cool and menacing overall, lots of points getting sinked in there though and kinda forces you to skimp on that Elite units elsewhere but worth the price in my humble oppinion.

[Remtek]

NovaOpen is allowing one shot at bs4 after jinking with a Stormraven, which makes the formation pretty strong. Stormtalons are also quite good considering the price. Seems like a comms relay also would be required considering the rather large points investment. 

[Jolemai]

Interesting. I'll add in a note on the OP later today and thanks for the reply (and the other replies!).

 

Another thing that should be mentioned is something that is overlooked by many this edition: there are no longer any restrictions when it comes to firing your missiles, meaning you can fire up to four per phase.

 

(Quite possibly, this might be the only case where firing your load early is a good thing...)

[Remtek]

Interesting. I'll add in a note on the OP later today and thanks for the reply (and the other replies!).

 

Another thing that should be mentioned is something that is overlooked by many this edition: there are no longer any restrictions when it comes to firing your missiles, meaning you can fire up to four per phase.

 

(Quite possibly, this might be the only case where firing your load early is a good thing...)

 

I generally fire 3 rockets, multimelta and assault cannon the turn it comes in, leaving 1 rocket left.

 

 

(Quite possibly, this might be the only case where firing your load early is a good thing...)

 

*looks for scatter dice*

[Gondow]

Any ref. To where it says missile system is one weapon choise?

My regular oponents says one missile = one weapon fired.

[Jolemai]

That is correct.

[Jolemai]

Thread updated for seventh edition. Also, I've included a review of the Fighter Ace rules for Space Marines should you wish to use them.