Rad grenades stacking

[Triacom]

This occurred to me when I was re-reading some of the rules for Rad grenades, and how it could be slightly abused by the Death guard in particular.

 

So the rules state that in the first turn of the assault, the enemy unit being assaulted or assaulting the unit with rad grenades suffers a -1 to their toughness, so if you assault with multiple units with rad grenades it looks like the effects stack, since I cannot see anything in the rulebook to say they do not (-1 from the first unit, -1 from the second for a -2).

 

Does anybody know or have any evidence to suggest this isn't the case?  Because if it is the case then that could lead to some pretty interesting situations, charging an ork mob with four units if you can somehow get them into position (and I've got ideas as to how you can do this) would lead to the entire mob instantly dying, because when your toughness reaches 0 they are removed from the game, you'd only need three to instant kill entire units of Eldar, Tau, or Guardsmen, and extremely tough deathstar units like the screamerstar would be immediately removed from play without being able to use their 2+ re-rollable invulnerable save.

 

Now I'm not scared of this happening to me or anyone else often, and I don't think it'll automatically win you the game because I can only think of 1-2 ways you can pull something like this off, and even then it's difficult, I'm just curious if anyone knows if it can't happen.

[Molokai]

I cant answer your question as im inly just getting my head around the basics. But, you can take more than one set of rad grenades per unit. IE, the sgt of a tactical squad, with an attatched apothecary and praetor. Thesr three chatacters can all take rad grenades seperatley.

 

Im very interested in hearing what others have to say on this.

[Molokai]

Ok, so just been fishing around and realize multiple rad grenades in one unit dont stack anyway.

[Triacom]

That's the thing, they don't stack in the same unit, but it looks like they stack across multiple units, here;s what I was thinking:

Start the game with deathshroud with rad grenades, Morturg, a Praetor with rad grenades and a centurion with rad grenades all infiltrating, turn 2 split them up in the movement phase, keep them close to the enemy, after casting Endurance on the deathshroud have them charge an enemy unit, then charge the same unit with your 3 other characters, and you just inflicted -4 to the enemies toughness, instant killing ALL MEQ's.

 

Granted this is a one-trick pony kind of strategy, I'm just curious what other people thought of it.

[Molokai]

Wouldnt resolving assaults one at a time make this mechanically impossible ?

[corai]

Do rad grenades not specifically state the toughness reduction is to a minimum of 1 like most negative effects?

[Triacom]

Wouldnt resolving assaults one at a time make this mechanically impossible ?

No, because the penalty lasts until the end of the assault phase, so even if you resolved the first combat before the second one charges/attacks they'd still stack on each other.

 

Do rad grenades not specifically state the toughness reduction is to a minimum of 1 like most negative effects?

No they do not, just that they inflict a -1 to the toughness, which is why I started this discussion, and it's why I'm curious if anybody knows if this cannot happen.

[depthcharge12]

I don't think they can because I believe the wording says: "if a unit is assaulted by at least one model carrying rad grenades..." So no stacking.

 

 

However I was wondering the same for the rad launchers for destroyers as it states the target unit toughness is lowered by -1 for rest of game. Does this stack?

 

Also is the rad effect used immediately that shooting phase when rolling to wound? Or is it after that unit's shooting?

[Triacom]

I don't think they can because I believe the wording says: "if a unit is assaulted by at least one model carrying rad grenades..." So no stacking.

 

 

However I was wondering the same for the rad launchers for destroyers as it states the target unit toughness is lowered by -1 for rest of game. Does this stack?

 

Also is the rad effect used immediately that shooting phase when rolling to wound? Or is it after that unit's shooting?

It doesn't say that, which is a shame because then it would clearly be a flat -1, but they do not, they make it a by-the-unit basis, and since it's by-the-unit it seems to me like they would stack, the rule says "During a turn in which a unit equipped with rad grenades launches an assault, or is themselves assaulted, the enemy unit(s) suffer a -1 penalty to their Toughness until the end of the Assault phase."

 

So a unit launches an assault, -1T to the enemy, another unit launches an assault, -1T to the enemy, I'm just curious if these two -1's keep subtracting from the toughness of the enemy because I cannot see anything that says they do not, it's either a flat -1 (but the book does not say that in the armoury) or it's another -1, the book isn't too clear on that, and there's no FAQ on it yet, so I want to make sure I'm not missing something here.

 

As for the Rad missiles, those are easy, it says "any model that loses one or MORE wounds..." so they can take more wounds later on, but since that's covered by the rule (as a flat -1), they don't further reduce their toughness, and it can even be in different shooting phases, they still don't stack.

The Toughness reduction also happens immediately after they take lose the wound to the Rad-Phage weapon.  How it's worded right now means it doesn't matter if it's saved or not, they just have to lose a wound (as in, before saves are taken), and the effect applies instantly for the rest of the game.  If they were only meant to have the effects apply to a model that loses a wound for good, they would have said "any model takes one or more UNSAVED wounds..." but they didn't say that.

 

This is another reason the rad-grenades are unclear, if the rule took multiple units charging into account, then we'd have a definitive answer, and it's not like Rad anything cannot stack, because Rad grenades can stack on Rad Missiles just fine for -2T to the enemy.