Chaos Contemptor Dreadnaught and Decimator

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Recently been really getting into the FW Chaos stuff and really like these two models and think they would be a perfect fit to my army.

 

Couple of quick questions though:

 

Where can I find the rules? A quick google for the Contemptor comes up with a free FW PDF for the space marine variant (saying it may be used in chaos armies too until they get their own rules) but I'm sure Chaos had their own now but not sure what FW book that is (hopefully they are both in the same).

 

Secondly, are they actually any good? I just think they look cool and would be fun to paint but would have no idea how to field them or what equipment to take without the rules.

 

Thanks :)

[Chaeron]

Both are excellent - double Kheres or Butcher cannon, and watch everything drop.

 

Mark Decimator for Nurgle and laugh as your opponent fails to destroy it. Have two of each - recommend highly!

[Kilofix]

Chaos Contemptor and Decimator can both be found in the FW IA:Apoc book.

 

I prefer using the Contemptor at range (it is AV13 and has a 4++ or 6++ Armor Save - woo!), and using the Decimator for close assault (it has more Attacks and can Deep Strike).

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Thanks you two for some very quick replies, and that seems to answer my questions nicely. Sounds like they are very highly rated, I look forward to reading through the options when I get hold of the book.

 

Just one more thing, is there a Chaos Contemptor model or just the standard Space Marine one I'll need to turn to convert?

[Chaeron]

You can get most Pre-Heresy ones now from Forge World for the traitor legions (or, are coming out slowly). Otherwise, convert away!

[Kilofix]

And, if you run your IG using the AM Codex (i.e. Forces of the Imperium - even though we know they're Renegades) - then you can ally in a Mortis version of the Contemptor (also in IA:Apoc) that can take two Kheres AC which are Str 6 / AP 4 Heavy 6 Rending. So that's like 12 shots, and it can get Skyfire if it stands still. In addition to still being AV13 and getting 5++. Oh, and it can also still add Cyclone Missile Launchers on top of all that. Like "What the...!?"

 

Here's my regular Death Guard one with ACs, and my 'looks like loyalist but is secretly radical' Mortis one with Kheres and Cyclone:

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Ooh, might be worth hanging in for a WB one if they are releasing them for legions.

 

Nice idea Kilofix! Yours look awesome :)

[Strazhakov]

I borrowed a Decimator from a friend once and was very pleased with its performance. The model is huge though. Much taller than a dread. 

The only reason I haven't yet bought two and lots of weapon options is that they don't fit the fluff of my warband. 

[totgeboren]

I have used a Decimator with Butcher Cannon, Heavy Conversion Beamer and dual claws, and the only one that works for me is the dual claw one.

One Butcher is just way too expensive and a Hadesfiend does the same job better for less points. One Heavy Conversion Beamer (since you can't have two) is too hard to use as the enemy can just advance and then you have a worse and more expensive Defiler that can't move and fire.

Two claws is the cheapest one, and you can either deep strike and really hurt stuff with 2x h.flamers or use it as a bullet magnet, something it does fairly well (even if it lacks IWND).

 

My Contemptor on the other hand runs around with a Butcher Cannon, Plasma Blaster and fist, but I'm not entirely sold on him. He costs as much as a Land Raider but brings less utility. But he looks cool and can fight well both at range and in close combat, and shrugging of glancing hits on a 4+ isn't too bad either. If he acts as support for a squad of marines he works well enough, but as most chaos units he just cost a bit too much.

 

About size, the Contemptor is taller than a Dread, but the Dread is bulkier. By mass they are pretty similar, though I think the Dread might even be a tiny bit bigger. I don't really know why they have front AV13, they look like they should have 12 and cost like 50 pts less, but there you have it.

The Decimator on the other hand is huge though, much bigger than both a Dread and the Contemptor.

[Kilofix]

Size comparison

[totgeboren]

Yeah, as you see, especially if you put the Helbrute on a base, he is actually bulkier and probably contains more mass than a Contemptor. That surprised me when I got mine assembled. You sort of get the impression that the Contemptor is a bigger Dread, when is is in fact a smaller-but-taller Dread.

 

AV13 is still pretty nice, especially in close combat. And chaos have more than enough AV12 walkers as it is, so it does bring something special.

[Chaeron]

Contemptors are surprisingly lithe - it does make them look distinct!

[minionboy]

Hopefully the Decimator gets a sever point drop in the future, or become much better.  Unfortunately for it's cost, you're FAR better off with a Contemptor.  I've got 3, one with 2 storm lasers (because it looks cool, though I might switch it if they dont' get better in IA13), one with 2 claws and one with a claw and soulburner, unfortunately out of any of them, only the one with two claws seems any good, and the soulburner is so-so.  Being WS/BS 3 really kills it for me, if it got back up on a 5+ instead of a 6, then I'd probably give it a bit more consideration, Daemon Forged would help a bit too.

 

The Contemptor on the other hand is awesome, I also have 3: 2x Butcher Cannons (we don't get Kheres), 2 combat weapons (with plasma blasters), and one with a Multi-melta, meltagun and chainfist.  They all actually seem to perform alright, and with the proliferation of heavy armour lately, they really haven't let me down.  With a 4++ agaisnt glancing hits, it's AV13 really shines against the S7 spam that the game still seems to be focused on, and while it has 1 attack less than the Decimator, it's WS5 more than makes up for it, on top of that, it's dedication to Khorne gives it Rage as well as Rampage, so it will have the same number of attacks on the charge as a Khorne Decimator.

 

One thing though, never, ever, take the heavy Conversion Beamer on either of these, they're just traps to turn you into an over priced Relic Predator.

[Xenith]

Agree, keep them mobile.

 

I don't own one, but a Tzeentch Storm laser Decimator looked fun, along with the dual Butcher cannon contemptor.

 

I wish the contemptors MoT was the same as the decimators, that would be excellent.

[minionboy]

Agree, keep them mobile.

 

I don't own one, but a Tzeentch Storm laser Decimator looked fun, along with the dual Butcher cannon contemptor.

 

I wish the contemptors MoT was the same as the decimators, that would be excellent.

 

Yeah, the Tz Storm Decimator was what I was going for, but then I realized it was paying 25 extra points for 2/3 of a hit more per turn, ugh.  Sadly a double butcher decimator is the same cost as a double butcher contemptor, which has BS4.

[Hellrender]

What do people think about a contemptor with dual plasma cannons and a havoc launcher?

[Xenith]

Can Chaos do that? I like the plan - A loadout I wish we could get in the codex is plasma, missile launcher, havoc. lots of templates.

 

Seems expensive to lose all the close combat ability, though. You may be better served by an ectoplasma fiend.

[totgeboren]

Can Chaos do that? I like the plan - A loadout I wish we could get in the codex is plasma, missile launcher, havoc. lots of templates.

 

Seems expensive to lose all the close combat ability, though. You may be better served by an ectoplasma fiend.

Yeah, it sounds like a really expensive ectofiend with worse guns. :/

Really the thing with Contemptors is that they are fleet and good in CC (WS5), whilst still bringing good firepower. I run mine with a Butcher Cannon and a plasma blaster. He brings almost as much firepower as a Hadesfiend when closing in, and he hits as hard in close combat as a Maulerfiend all the while having AV13 in the front.

 

I think the Contemptor is like our Dreadnoughts. You have to make it all-round if you want any chance of it delivering. Going all-out shooting means you waste all that close combat power and the fleet, not to mention that the Forgefiend is cheaper, while if you go all cc you are probably better served by a Maulerfiend just because of the speed.

[Hellrender]

Do you think it's then worth to also upgrade it to a chainfist? And how did you make your butchercannon?

[totgeboren]

Do you think it's then worth to also upgrade it to a chainfist? And how did you make your butchercannon?

I dunno, I think S10 Ap2 should be enough against most stuff. I guess it depends on how many Land Raiders and Monoliths you are up against?

 

I did my Butcher from the huge reaper autocannon you get in the defiler kit, but I changed the barrels to match the size of the Hades autocannon barrels. I'm thinking of shortening them, they look a bit too big (the Hades autocannons are freaking huge!)

[Xenith]

Totebegoren, that is one gorgeous dread.

 

I would probably run it with the same loadout, to be honest. Lots of (mobile) S7-8 firepower to crack transports, and the fist to deal with what's inside.

[Chaeron]

And how did you make your butchercannon?

 

Although I used both from Forge World, they're pretty simplistic all-told. Any long barrel with holes in it would do the trick.

[totgeboren]

Totebegoren, that is one gorgeous dread.

 

I would probably run it with the same loadout, to be honest. Lots of (mobile) S7-8 firepower to crack transports, and the fist to deal with what's inside.

 

Thank you. And regarding the Butcher again, it feels like the people at FW didn't really know what they were going for, or GW/FW misunderstood each other.

When the Chaos Contemptor first got rules the description was: "a heavy calibre rotary gun whose shells are bound with runes of anathema and bloodletting." Sounds like the Hades Autocannon to me. Also, the profile is identical to the Hades autocannon minus pinning. This was around the time the current CSM codex was being finalised, so I would think there was some communication between the two.

But then FW released their Butchercannon, and it is almost a exact replica of the huge Reaper Autocannon found on the Defiler kit. It's the same length and size, so that's why I used it for my initial version. Just a FW 'copy' more or less.

 

Heh, I was sooooo convinced the Defiler would get the Butcher Cannon rules for its reaper instead of what it got. It makes little sense to have totally different rules for the same gun one would think? Too bad our codex was so half-arsed.

Anyway, I made the Hades variant of the Butcher for consistency. If my Hadesfiend has got R36" S8 Ap4 Heavy 4 guns, and my Contemtor has got the same profile on his gun, I think the guns should look similar (and the gun should definitely not look similar to the reaper autocannon on the Defiler, since that profile is not even close!).

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Glad this thread has been revived, it has come at a perfect time!! 

 

So, I'm staying at my girlfriends for a week as her parents have gone on holiday so we are dog sitting and as I turn up this morning I get told she has just randomly bought me a Decimator as she thought it looked awesome (because she is awesome!!!) and knows I wanted it. Needless to say I was rather surprised but very happy and so led to me coming on here to ask a few questions.

 

Would really appreciate your help so I can use this great model as soon as possible.

 

1 - She only bought the Decimator body - I believe comes without arms which is handy as it means I can check how best to arm it. So what is the best way of equipping a Decimator?

I was thinking for close combat would be best as its low BS, number of attacks and Unholy Vigour special rule seems to make it more suited to this? Would this be a fair assumption? The post above seems to differ in opinion on this though as some say all out combat where as others go for a pair of guns with a high rate of fire.

 

2 - Obviously the CC option speaks for itself but if a shooting option is preferred, which guns? A matching pair or different?

looking at the stats, I would choose either butcher cannons (for 4 S8 AP4 shots) or storm lasers for 3-5 S6 AP3 shots). Is that a fair judgement? I would say both these weapons are equally matched with the same range, similar rate of fire and where one has higher S, the other has better AP. However, as I'm new to FW a better breakdown of the guns would be appreciated alongside which you think is the best.

 

3 - Marks.

I play Word Bearers but have no problem taking marked units (especially daemon units as they have to be possessed by a daemon of one of the four gods anyway thus the alignment will be accordingly) so what are the strengths and weaknesses of each mark? Which is best? Does it change depending on whether the Decimator of ranged or CC.

 

4 - Finally, and kind of an extension of the above. The IA book states that a Marked Decimator counts as a Daemon of the appropriate alignment if used with Chaos Daemons. This seems pretty clear to me but I need to check my understanding to make sure.

Does that mean that if I took a Nurgle Marked Decimator in my Daemon Allies it would be a Daemon of Nurgle (eg Hatred: Daemons of Tzeentch, shrouded, S&P etc) as well as gaining the additional Decimator mark benefit, in this case It Will Not Die. 

 

Thanks guys, really appreciate your tips while I'm getting into FW stuff, especially as I'll know what arms/weapons to buy.

[Kilofix]

Hows it going Dark?

 

1. I prefer not to mix and match myself - either equip it with dual Siege Claws and Flamers (stock) and then Deep Strike it, or equip it with Dual Butcher (or with one of them a Conversion Beamer if you can be far enough) and keep it back.

 

2. See above

 

3. I prefer MoN myself because it already has 4 (+1=5) attacks with dual Claws so MoK's Rampage doesn't really benefit it. I also think 1 extra Attack when Charging through Cover isn't better than potentially recovering a Wound every Turn.

 

4. It counts as a Daemon but does not get the specific "Daemon of...." bonuses from the Daemon Codex. The former does provide some benefits like allowing it to mitigate Deep Strike scatter when close to a Daemon Banner.