UltraTacSgt Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 Does anyone use dead barebones HQ's in a combat role with any success?I am thinking like a Captain with the Primarch's Wrath in a group of Sternguard or a Jump Pack Chaplain with Assault Marines. Maybe a Captain on a bike with a powerfist or power weapon and some biker troops if you were to get fancy.I know that a dead base Librarian is about as cheap as it gets, but is that one power going to be a bigger help than an HQ that can consistently mulch up weak/average units? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I'm a fan of HQs in the 150ish point range. I find that to be a good balance. This means using Captains over Chapter Master. My exact loadout changes each day it seems but some of my preferred options are below. (I add Artificer Armor to all builds if I can afford it) Grav Pistol & Power Axe for hunting heavy infantry Dual Lightning Claw for shredding basic infantry squads Power Fist & Storm Shield for a cheap version of the uber Chapter Master build. Against most things, it will perform the same. Relic Blade & Storm Shield as a variant of the above build that trades AP2 for I5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3770913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Captain, Shield Eternal, Thunder Hammer. 190 points and very good. If you try to save too many points you end up with a mediocre character who either dies too easily or fails to deal enough damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3774245 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Jump Pack Chaplain with Assault Marines I know that a dead base Librarian is about as cheap as it gets, but is that one power going to be a bigger help than an HQ that can consistently mulch up weak/average units? You have the right idea here. It's perfectly valid to put your HQ in a unit like this and just use it to bully the weak. Play them conservatively and he's relatively safe, you can sit out challenges if you feel like it since you'll still buff the assault marines. Use the extra points on more shooty stuff instead of trying to be the best duellist. Unless you already go for the bike captain or chapter master, might as well make em killy and tanky then. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3774268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I've considered cheap Lords to the same effect, but the Chaos HQs unfortunately do too much hand holding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3774324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Cheapest Captain I would go with is a Terminator Captain with Primarch's Wrath and a Lightning Claw for just 145pts. However, I particularly enjoy having a character who worries opponents. My 200pts Chapter Master has just Articifer Armour and the Burning Blade, clocks in at 200pts and has 6 attacks on the charge without the Chapter Banner! No opponents will want to take that on in a fair fight! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3774330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon999 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Until I got my love affair with librarians for cheap HQ, I used to use a bare bones captain with a pair of lightning claws. Used to be better back in 5th when lightning claws ignored all armour, but its still very viable for a cheap and nasty combat character as said above. 3+/4++ with 4 S4 AP3 attacks (with WS6 means virtually always hitting on 3's) and rerolling wounds can make a mess of quite a few things and is half the price of the beatstick chapter master with SE and hammer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3774480 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Until I got my love affair with librarians for cheap HQ, I used to use a bare bones captain with a pair of lightning claws. Used to be better back in 5th when lightning claws ignored all armour, but its still very viable for a cheap and nasty combat character as said above. 3+/4++ with 4 S4 AP3 attacks (with WS6 means virtually always hitting on 3's) and rerolling wounds can make a mess of quite a few things and is half the price of the beatstick chapter master with SE and hammer. Plus it looks awesome. Actually works quite well with BT chapter tactics due to rerolls to hit and high chance of rending with shred. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3774678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Black Templars make many weapons surprisingly dangerous. Mauls are great against non power armour but in challenges you can go rending. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3774739 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I think a key thing to consider is how to balance the need for AP2 (which is normally I1) compared to I4 or I5 attacks (that will likely be AP3) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3774898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 The only good barebones character is a librarian if you want to fill the role for dirt cheap, otherwise the only good choices are tiggy, calgar, lysander, khan or smashkill (or 2) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3775031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I don't rate a basic libby at all. A basic Chaplain is probably a better buff to a cc orientated squad... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3775357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 eh true to that, since the only libby i run is a DA one to give my chapter masters prescience... cept the game I just did he failed to cast a single spell (not from deny the witch)... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3775458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The only good barebones character is a librarian if you want to fill the role for dirt cheap, otherwise the only good choices are tiggy, calgar, lysander, khan or smashkill (or 2) No way. Chapter Masters of all stripes are making a positive impact on the table! Really solid fighters who are cornerstones to an assault unit. The special characters are good sure, but I wouldn't count out the standard characters we have access to. A Librarian is solid in Terminator armour and sporting a Storm Shield, for example. 125pts is cheap too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3775616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 A single Librarian is simply no good for casting powers and fails to deliver in combat. I'd either take Tigarius AND Coteaz to make psychic powers effective or just get a Chaplain/Captain instead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3775620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Only if you're playing against armies with too many psykers. A single Librarian is still a difficult proposition in assault, and a Drop Pod squad can enjoy the benefits of a force axe and flaming death or biomancy wytch fires. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3775623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Yeah, seriously. If you want a capable psyker in CC you need a daemon prince or Mephiston, units with base stats good enough to be dangerous even if all powers fail. Squishy T4 characters with 2 wounds just doesn't cut it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3775812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 You have a single mastery 2 libby with bs4 and try to hurt me with a witchfire. You roll to cast, could fail. If you pass I roll to deny and have a chance to do so. You then roll to hit, missing 35% of the time, then roll to wound. Then I get a save potentially - Armour, invul or cover. Not worth the dice rolls imo. You might kill 1 or 2 marines if lucky. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3775864 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Congratulations, you just explained why everyone knows Witchfires are poop. Know what isn't poop? Iron Arm. Endurance. Invisibility. All of which avoid over half of that dice rolling, and are valuable to have in close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3776051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 But unless you field Tigarius you can't remotely base a tactic around those powers... Unless you spam multiple psykers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3776091 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 You get one free, and if you don't get one of the other great powers you can get another witch fire you can fire off 6 shots at AP2. And if you have a solid Librarian you still have a close combat character. I never agree with the attitude "go Daemon Prince or don't bother." That Terminator Librarian could make a mess against any backfield unit etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3776200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The only good barebones character is a librarian if you want to fill the role for dirt cheap, otherwise the only good choices are tiggy, calgar, lysander, khan or smashkill (or 2) No way. Chapter Masters of all stripes are making a positive impact on the table! Really solid fighters who are cornerstones to an assault unit. The special characters are good sure, but I wouldn't count out the standard characters we have access to. A Librarian is solid in Terminator armour and sporting a Storm Shield, for example. 125pts is cheap too. If a chapter master doesnt have the shield eternal or at least a bike, and artificers armor and a pf/th he is worthless Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3776286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Do people really fight that much S8 AP2? Plasma, Grav and S6-7 high ROF weapons seem the most common and none of those car about EW. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3776315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 yeah it makes sense just to try and avoid or tarpit any S8 AP2 you face, i'd rather spend the point on offensive power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3776328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 if you dont take a bike or SE a lascannon can kill you in 1 shot... 2 discount chapter masters will just get rolled by my fully decked one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294834-barebones-codex-space-marine-combat-hq/#findComment-3776391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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