TrafficCustodes Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I'm not sure if angron purposely ignored the edict. I think it is more a case that he had forgotten that he had any left in his legionConsidering they all made the Nails in his head go "buzz", I doubt he forgot they existed. One might forget a good thing, but one will never forget pain. Or what caused it. Yeah, "forgotten" is not exactly it; I can't remember it exactly, but 'Betrayer' has reams of stuff about this. Angron felt contempt (at best) for psykers, but he was already far enough gone by Nikaea to disregard the Edict completely. A big part of this was that the XII Legion death rate for Librarians was like 99.9% (as opposed to the death rate for XII Legion line soldier, which is only 95%). Every single Librarian who was implanted with the Butchers Nails died horribly, and the Nails cause non-psykers discomfort when psykers are nearby, so the World Eater Librarians are shunned by their own Primarch and Legion. The attitude seems to be "you can do what you want, just do it far away from me, I don't want to have to look at your stupid witch face." Even if we assume that a lot of them were killed in the Isstvan III and V conflicts, there are only 19 Librarians left by the time 'Betrayer' happens. The Librarians as a tactical implementation (or even just as a concept) are beneath Angron's notice, despite them saving his life several times. He doesn't care. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3774641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 You're looking for the word ostracized. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3774644 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrafficCustodes Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 you could say they were pariahs. ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3774652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Didn't either Horus Rising or False Gods specifically state the Luna Wolves/SoH has disbanded their Librarius after nikaea? Which would make them compliant. If this was said i missed it the times i read and reread them. If you can find the quote i would love to see it. It would clear up a lot of questions i have had. I have been searching for any information on the Luna Wolves and psykers for a few years now. Trying to find a link between Loken and the Librarius. The lack of information has been almost to complete. For a legion who was willing to do whatever needed to be done to get the job done, i would think they would not let any advantage go un used. I also think that Horus would also go to great lengths to appear compliant but i want find any information so far. I think the Sons of Horus and the Emperors Children might have been Compliant but I'm not 100% sure. If any one has information I'm not thinking about please point it out. According to betrayal the Emperors Children did not have any psykers preheresy, they saw the gene as impure. Hmm ill have to check that out. That would make them Compliant I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3775558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Sadly my copy was lost, but I remember Loken reminiscing about Nikea in the same passage as when Horus did his "the warp is alive" reveal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3775583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Bearclaw Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Afraid I can't give you a quote, haven't read the books in years, don't currently have access to my copy of Rising and don't own a copy of False Gods. I'm pretty sure I read it in one of them, but I could be mistaken. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3775584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I will check my books. Not that i haven't re read them over and over but hey, whats one more time. Ill look for Horus and the Warp is alive. Horus Rising. Pg 195 - 202, at the end of Part 1. Horus Comes to talk to Loken about what happened to the 10th Co in the Whisperheads. Loken is trying to come to grips with what happened to Jubal and Horus tells him it was the warp. Horus tells Loken that it is all a secret and that not even the Emperor knows all the information. Loken says he has been trained on how to deal with the warp creatures but he is still upset because Jubal was no psyker. As Loken understands, the warp should only be a danger to psykers but Horus says that is not the full story. There is a lot of talk about psykers and Astartes but no mention of Nikaea or what the Luna Wolves did after the edict. Ill look through False Gods next... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3776562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I'm going purely on a half-remembered forum post here, but doesn't Wolf Hunt imply that the Sons of Horus mind wiped all their psykers? I seem to remember another user saying that there was a reason Sevarian didn't know he was a psyker and it wasn't the normal latent business. This may be nonsense, but can anyone who has read Wolf Hunt clear this up? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3776625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I'm going purely on a half-remembered forum post here, but doesn't Wolf Hunt imply that the Sons of Horus mind wiped all their psykers? I seem to remember another user saying that there was a reason Sevarian didn't know he was a psyker and it wasn't the normal latent business. This may be nonsense, but can anyone who has read Wolf Hunt clear this up? I just played the Audio drama Wolf Hunt again. At the end we learn Severion is a latent psyker who has recently (two years ago) had his powers jarred loose. It dose not give the answer on how / if his powers were kept dormant. Severion was on Terra for 177 years and never became a Son of Horus. I have for some time felt that the Luna Wolves and other legions, used some kind of mental conditioning/ mind wiping/ brainwashing to repress the psykers in their ranks. I feel this is what happened to Sevarion, Loken and others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3776729 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Sevatar chose to damn in his powers. That much was apparent. As for Loken........ I'm going to leave that fan theory alone. But from what we've seen of the Ultramarines, the Dark Angels and Blood Angels, the Librarians chose not to use their powers. That simple. No mental blocks to keep it from welling out, no nothing. Just "I will not use this sword in my arsenal." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3776732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Sevatar chose to damn in his powers. That much was apparent. As for Loken........ I'm going to leave that fan theory alone. But from what we've seen of the Ultramarines, the Dark Angels and Blood Angels, the Librarians chose not to use their powers. That simple. No mental blocks to keep it from welling out, no nothing. Just "I will not use this sword in my arsenal." Sevatar.... not sure how he got dragged into this but i think you are right about him. Also right are you about the Ultramarines, the Dark Angels and Blood Angels. Same holds for the Raven Guard. I just don't think Horus and some others, trusted his Son's like the Lion, Corax, Roboute and the Angel. I think the Sons of Horus and the Emperors Children might have been Compliant but I'm not 100% sure. If any one has information I'm not thinking about please point it out. According to betrayal the Emperors Children did not have any psykers preheresy, they saw the gene as impure. I looked through my copy of Betrayal and cannot find any reference at all to psykers and the Emperor's Children. The only tidbit close is on pg 107. "Notably all of the variation in squad type and equipment found in other Legions were present within the Emperor's Children, as they believed there was no sphere of warfare they could not or should not excel in." To me it seems like they, like the Luna Wolves would do anything to win. Even use mind powers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3776783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Apologies, I saw Sevarian and it clicked in my head as Sevatarion, which is Sevatar's full name. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3776830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I'm going purely on a half-remembered forum post here, but doesn't Wolf Hunt imply that the Sons of Horus mind wiped all their psykers? I seem to remember another user saying that there was a reason Sevarian didn't know he was a psyker and it wasn't the normal latent business. This may be nonsense, but can anyone who has read Wolf Hunt clear this up? I just played the Audio drama Wolf Hunt again. At the end we learn Severion is a latent psyker who has recently (two years ago) had his powers jarred loose. It dose not give the answer on how / if his powers were kept dormant. Severion was on Terra for 177 years and never became a Son of Horus. I have for some time felt that the Luna Wolves and other legions, used some kind of mental conditioning/ mind wiping/ brainwashing to repress the psykers in their ranks. I feel this is what happened to Sevarion, Loken and others. How would the mind wipe machine be able to reach Loken's brain, atop his giraffe neck? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3776846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Here's my question, is his mind in right head, center head, or left head? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3776852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimtalos Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I think the Sons of Horus and the Emperors Children might have been Compliant but I'm not 100% sure. If any one has information I'm not thinking about please point it out. According to betrayal the Emperors Children did not have any psykers preheresy, they saw the gene as impure. I looked through my copy of Betrayal and cannot find any reference at all to psykers and the Emperor's Children. The only tidbit close is on pg 107. My mistake it is not in Betrayal but rather Reflection Crack'd in the Primarchs book. Really thought it was in Betrayal as that gave a bit more weight to it. Here is the quote chapter 12 page 86 The Emperor's Children had been a Legion, reticent in employing Librarians. The genetic quirk that allowed a psyker to wield the power of the warp came about as a result of a genetic mutation, a flaw. And nothing that could be considered a flaw would be permitted within the ranks of Fulgrim's Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 The Iron Hands also did not have librarians as Ferrus Manus doesn't trust them, according to Feat of Iron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Raven Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I recall reading that Corax didn't trust psykers. Any source on that? I'd love that to be true, if only to daydream about an alternate heresy where the Raven Guard and the Death Guard attack Prospero together out of hatred instead of the Space Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777316 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I recall reading that Corax didn't trust psykers. Any source on that? I'd love that to be true, if only to daydream about an alternate heresy where the Raven Guard and the Death Guard attack Prospero together out of hatred instead of the Space Wolves. I remember reading that too but can't remember where. On the other hand Deliverance Lost has him use a psyker to open the door to the gene-labs so I guess take it as you will. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrafficCustodes Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I also remember Corax being mentioned as one who distrusts psykers - perhaps in 'A Thousand Sons'? That book's a bit big to hunt through... Still, in 'Deliverance Lost' he actively encourages a former Librarian to break the Edict to unlock the labyrinth, it's only the presence of a Custodes that stops this from happening. Wasn't Corax canonically one of the Primarchs told the most about the dangers of the Warp and the Chaos powers? If so he would have seen the danger of misuse of psychic powers, but also would recognise their usefulness in a situation like the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777352 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 In Massacre doesnt it say the Raven Guard psykers returned to the legion rank and file with many becoming moritats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Komrk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I also remember Corax being mentioned as one who distrusts psykers - perhaps in 'A Thousand Sons'? That book's a bit big to hunt through... Still, in 'Deliverance Lost' he actively encourages a former Librarian to break the Edict to unlock the labyrinth, it's only the presence of a Custodes that stops this from happening. Wasn't Corax canonically one of the Primarchs told the most about the dangers of the Warp and the Chaos powers? If so he would have seen the danger of misuse of psychic powers, but also would recognise their usefulness in a situation like the Heresy. Yeah Corax and the Khan both seem to remember the "evil voices" from when they were swept away from Terra and they both seem to have a similar opinion on Librarians with the main difference being the Khan supporting the Librarius but also making a lot of rules and Corax being an unknown as to his stance on the Librarius but both definitely have a better understanding of the evil in the Warp Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777370 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I think the Sons of Horus and the Emperors Children might have been Compliant but I'm not 100% sure. If any one has information I'm not thinking about please point it out. According to betrayal the Emperors Children did not have any psykers preheresy, they saw the gene as impure. I looked through my copy of Betrayal and cannot find any reference at all to psykers and the Emperor's Children. The only tidbit close is on pg 107. My mistake it is not in Betrayal but rather Reflection Crack'd in the Primarchs book. Really thought it was in Betrayal as that gave a bit more weight to it. Here is the quote chapter 12 page 86 The Emperor's Children had been a Legion, reticent in employing Librarians. The genetic quirk that allowed a psyker to wield the power of the warp came about as a result of a genetic mutation, a flaw. And nothing that could be considered a flaw would be permitted within the ranks of Fulgrim's Legion. Ok nice find. It seems then that makes the Emperor's Children compliant. 1, Compliance = Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Death Guard. 2, Interpretation = White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels. 3, Ignore = Night Lords, World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion. 4, Unknown = Iron Warriors, Iron Hands, Sons of Horus, Salamanders. I hear there is also a former Raven Guard Liberian in the new HH book The damnation of Pythos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Is there evidence of the Night Lords not being compliant before the Heresy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 The Iron Hands also did not have librarians as Ferrus Manus doesn't trust them, according to Feat of Iron. I think you might be right. I did not find it said directly but there are some clear scenes that show Ferrus did not trust psykers. If they did not have any i would say that makes them Compliant. 1, Compliance = Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Death Guard. 2, Interpretation = White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels. 3, Ignore = Night Lords, World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion. 4, Unknown = Iron Warriors, Sons of Horus, Salamanders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lorne Walkier Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Is there evidence of the Night Lords not being compliant before the Heresy? I had thought i read a story with a Night Lord libraian but i can not confirm that. Perhaps i should move them to the Unknown... 1, Compliance = Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Death Guard. 2, Interpretation = White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists, Blood Angels. 3, Ignore = World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion. 4, Unknown = Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Sons of Horus, Salamanders. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/294968-the-council-of-nikaea/page/2/#findComment-3777788 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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