The Council of Nikaea

[captain Angel]

Sorry but you have a small error. The blood angels were completely compliant. Only the angel was using his powers but he had no control over them.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Sorry but you have a small error. The blood angels were completely compliant. Only the angel was using his powers but he had no control over them.

hmm. I think you are right.  In Fear to Tread it seems to be clear.

 

1,  Compliance = Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Death Guard.

 

2,  Interpretation = White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists.

 

3,  Ignore = World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion.

 

4,  Unknown = Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Sons of Horus, Salamanders.

[Kol Saresk]

Well there was the Night Lords Librarian mentioned being at the Council of Nikea, but that's pretty much it at the moment.

[Marshal Rohr]

He didn't give a testimony though, did he? I thought he would've been to busy telling everyone how they would die :P

[Kol Saresk]

He was mentioned as being there, but IIRC not all the testimonies were shown. Just those "central to the plot". So we never really heard what the VIII's stance on Librarians was other than they had a Chief Librarian, but they also had Sevatar who intentionally warded his own powers to the point that when he broke the dam, they might actually be killing him.

[No Foes Remain]

I can't remember which book or short story (might have been FotE) but it was mentioned somewhere that the Imperial Fists imprisoned their Librarians in the deepest cells of the Phalax.

[Kol Saresk]

Audio story Burden of Duty. That's why we know they weren't compliant with the Edict, which stated that the Librarians return to the rank and file.

[Millicant]

Assuming that we are timing this list during the heresy, the Dark Angels should not be compliant.  They chose to ignore the edict under threat of daemon incursion.  As much as I'd like to forget that particular short story exists.... it does in fact exist.  

[Kol Saresk]

We're mostly going up to the Heresy. Otherwise, the only Legions that would be known as compliant are the Iron Hands, Emperor's Children, and Death Guard as the Ultramarines and Dark Angels are putting off the Edict until after the war when they plan on throwing themselves to the mercies of the Imperial Court and the Raven Guard used psykers to open the gene-vault and have probably started using them whenever they're seen as necessary.

[Millicant]

We're mostly going up to the Heresy. Otherwise, the only Legions that would be known as compliant are the Iron Hands, Emperor's Children, and Death Guard as the Ultramarines and Dark Angels are putting off the Edict until after the war when they plan on throwing themselves to the mercies of the Imperial Court and the Raven Guard used psykers to open the gene-vault and have probably started using them whenever they're seen as necessary.

 

Ah I understand. 

 

See, that only further proves my point from the OP.  Besides Magnus getting nearly killed over it, the Edict/Council of Nikaea was essentially a wash.  Especially since the three who remained "compliant" hated psykers even before the edict.  

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Assuming that we are timing this list during the heresy, the Dark Angels should not be compliant.  They chose to ignore the edict under threat of daemon incursion.  As much as I'd like to forget that particular short story exists.... it does in fact exist.  

I'm thinking the list should be timed after Nikaea but before Isstvan III.  When did that Incursion happen?  Was it part of the overall War?

[No Foes Remain]

Audio story Burden of Duty. That's why we know they weren't compliant with the Edict, which stated that the Librarians return to the rank and file.

Where was it stated that the members of the Librarius were to return to the ranks? I thought it was just 'stop using psykic powers 'mkay?'.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

 

Audio story Burden of Duty. That's why we know they weren't compliant with the Edict, which stated that the Librarians return to the rank and file.

Where was it stated that the members of the Librarius were to return to the ranks? I thought it was just 'stop using psykic powers 'mkay?'.

 

It was.  Stop using mind powers and return to the line.

[Millicant]

 

I'm thinking the list should be timed after Nikaea but before Isstvan III.  When did that Incursion happen?  Was it part of the overall War?

 

 

Roger.  We might need two lists then.  The one you're talking about would be "what Legions initially complied with the edict" while where I was originally going with this was "what Legions remained in compliance with the edict."

 

They are two different ideas, I suppose.  

 

For reference - the Dark Angels decision to disregard the edict came during the Thramas Crusade vs the Night Lords (I think - somebody may need to correct me/back me up on that).  

[Kol Saresk]

The incursion did happen in the Thramas Crusade, but it was closer to three years after Istvaan V. Specifically in the novella The Lion by Gav Thorpe, found in the Primarchs anthology. So the question I'd ask is, what is your cut off date for still remaining in compliance? Because by the end of the War, I have a feeling nobody will be in compliance.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

The incursion did happen in the Thramas Crusade, but it was closer to three years after Istvaan V. Specifically in the novella The Lion by Gav Thorpe, found in the Primarchs anthology. So the question I'd ask is, what is your cut off date for still remaining in compliance? Because by the end of the War, I have a feeling nobody will be in compliance.

Isstvan III, i would like to call the cut off.  What a Legion was forced to do after Horus set the Galaxy on fire is in my mind different.  What they did up until every thing changed is worth listing.

[Kol Saresk]

Then I think your list is accurate with the given information.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Then I think your list is accurate with the given information.

1, Compliance = Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Raven Guard, Death Guard.

2, Interpretation = White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists.

3, Ignore = World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion.

4, Unknown = Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Sons of Horus, Salamanders.

Kol_Saresk Approved!

[daveNYC]

Your interpretation category is covering a lot of ground considering that all three legions went in three very different directions regarding their psykers.

[Kol Saresk]

Your interpretation category is covering a lot of ground considering that all three legions went in three very different directions regarding their psykers.

True, but all three were interpretations by the Legions themselves and how they thought they were complaint. For the Space Wolves, it was the belief they were exempt. The White Scars believed their Stormseers should be sequestered on Chogoris and Dorn locked his up in the heart of the Phalanx. It covers reactions based on interpretation.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Your interpretation category is covering a lot of ground considering that all three legions went in three very different directions regarding their psykers.

Well maybe we could come up with a better name.  Im open for help.  I think these Legions would argue they were following what the Emperor "Wanted".  Kinda Rules as Intended. You know those guys.  The Compliance are Rules as written.

[Kol Saresk]

eh, not even "Rules as Intended". In the case of Russ, he took a very literal "Rules as Written" interpretation. "The Emperor said no Librarians. My Rune Priests are not Librarians. So they're good." In the case of the Khan, it was "Well Stormseers also help out with running Chogoris and recruiting future White Scars, so sending them to Chogoris is technically putting them back into the rank and file by letting them fulfill their other duties that don't require the use of psychic powers." Then you get Dorn. Still not sure how he interpreted/read that to mean "Imprisonment".

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

eh, not even "Rules as Intended". In the case of Russ, he took a very literal "Rules as Written" interpretation. "The Emperor said no Librarians. My Rune Priests are not Librarians. So they're good." In the case of the Khan, it was "Well Stormseers also help out with running Chogoris and recruiting future White Scars, so sending them to Chogoris is technically putting them back into the rank and file by letting them fulfill their other duties that don't require the use of psychic powers." Then you get Dorn. Still not sure how he interpreted/read that to mean "Imprisonment".

Do you think the Wolves should be in the Compliance group? 

[Kol Saresk]

No, not by any means of the word. Its obvious by the White Scars' behavior with the Stormseers that the Edict was meant as any an all psykers within the Legiones Astartes were to immediately cease using their powers and return to the rank and file. The Wolves played the good politician and intentionally used the wording of "Librarian" to excuse themselves. They knew what they were doing. If anything, I'd say that throws them into the ignore camp but the interpretation fits better because that is what they did, they "interpreted" it in a manner that pleased them.

[LongGone]

I can see Russ now: "That depends on what your definition of 'is', is..." Never really thought of him as very politically minded until just now.