The Council of Nikaea

[TrafficCustodes]

You might need to read 'Prospero Burns' again. Dude is a politician for sure (well, according to that fairly unreliable narrator anyway).

[Fire Golem]

From what I remember he's actually pretty politically adept, and it helps that people underestimate his political abilities due to his 'barbaric' nature.

[Lonewolf86]

In Scars the Salamander sergeant states that Vulkan complied with the edict as soon as he heard. All Librarians were returned to the rank and file. The Salamander speculates that he doesn't know what happens to them post Istvaan, speculating that most were probably killed.

[Knight of the Raven]

Seeing as trained psykers are a good weapon against the forces of Chaos and that the imperial webway can hardly get worse... do you think the Emperor Himself will annul the edict? I'd love to tell the Marines Malevolent and the old Black Templars that they're actually not following the Emperor's wish with their anti-librarian stance...

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

In Scars the Salamander sergeant states that Vulkan complied with the edict as soon as he heard. All Librarians were returned to the rank and file. The Salamander speculates that he doesn't know what happens to them post Istvaan, speculating that most were probably killed.

Pg 246 scars, Captain Xa'ven talking to Storm Seer Yesugei about Nikaea.

 

 

'Only that the Edict came in swiftly.  Vulkan enacted it strait away.  By the time news of Isstvan III reached us, we had no active Librarians in the Legion'

     Yesugei drew in a long breath.  'What did you do with them?'

     Xa'ven shrugged.  'They took vows.  They re-entered the ranks.  I don't  know how many survived the massacre.  Maybe none did.'

 

Looks like the three loyalist legions at Isstvan V were all compliant.

 

1,  Compliance = Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Death Guard.

 

2,  Interpretation = White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists.

 

3,  Ignore = World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion.

 

4,  Unknown = Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Sons of Horus.

[Karthak]

 

In Scars the Salamander sergeant states that Vulkan complied with the edict as soon as he heard. All Librarians were returned to the rank and file. The Salamander speculates that he doesn't know what happens to them post Istvaan, speculating that most were probably killed.

Pg 246 scars, Captain Xa'ven talking to Storm Seer Yesugei about Nikaea.

 

 

'Only that the Edict came in swiftly.  Vulkan enacted it strait away.  By the time news of Isstvan III reached us, we had no active Librarians in the Legion'

     Yesugei drew in a long breath.  'What did you do with them?'

     Xa'ven shrugged.  'They took vows.  They re-entered the ranks.  I don't  know how many survived the massacre.  Maybe none did.'

 

Looks like the three loyalist legions at Isstvan V were all compliant.

 

1,  Compliance = Dark Angels, Emperor's Children, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Ultramarines, Salamanders, Raven Guard, Death Guard.

 

2,  Interpretation = White Scars, Space Wolves, Imperial Fists.

 

3,  Ignore = World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Word Bearers, Alpha Legion.

 

4,  Unknown = Iron Warriors, Night Lords, Sons of Horus.

 

Shouldn't the White Scars fall under Ignore?

 

‘He was needed on Nikaea.’ ‘Nikaea?’ ‘A summit.’ The Khan gave her a shrewd look. ‘I would have been there too if I could have been, but Yesugei was my representative. He spoke for me. You see how much I trust him?’ ‘I do. What was he doing there?’ ‘Arguing for the right of the zadyin arga to exist. I hope he was successful.’ ‘And if he wasn’t?’ The Khan shrugged. ‘It makes no difference to me, but I would prefer that my more assiduous brothers don’t have to make a difficult choice.’ Ilya smiled. She had come to find the White Scars amiable indifference to Imperial edicts more endearing than exasperating. They weren’t rebellious, exactly, just themselves – no more, no less. Out alone. Unconcerned. They would never give up the Stormseers.

 

Seems pretty clear from this that anyone demanding that Jaghatai disband his Librarius would be met with "lol nope".

[Kol Saresk]

That's why they fall under intrepretation. The Edict demanded that as far as the Imperium could see, the psykers within the Legiones Astartes "stopped being psykers".

 

The White Scars "complied" with this by ordering their Stormseers back to Chogoris. Officially, the Stormseers would be continuing their other duties such as overseeing recruitment and leading the politics of Chogoris. Unofficially, it'd be a game of "Out of sight, out of mind." The Stormseers would still be the Stormseers they had always been. It'd just be that no one outside the V Legion would know any better.

 

Flowing from the same principle, that is also why the Fists and Wolves fall under interpretation. All three essentially ignored the Edict, but all three complied just enough that nobody of importance would care.

[Karthak]

That's why they fall under intrepretation. The Edict demanded that as far as the Imperium could see, the psykers within the Legiones Astartes "stopped being psykers".

 

The White Scars "complied" with this by ordering their Stormseers back to Chogoris. Officially, the Stormseers would be continuing their other duties such as overseeing recruitment and leading the politics of Chogoris. Unofficially, it'd be a game of "Out of sight, out of mind." The Stormseers would still be the Stormseers they had always been. It'd just be that no one outside the V Legion would know any better.

Not sure if complied is the right word:

 

‘I follow commands of my primarch,’ Yesugei said. ‘If he orders me to stop using gifts, I do so, but the Khan is out of contact for a long time.’ He gave Xa’ven a half-apologetic look. ‘In any case, he will take no notice of Edict. None of us will. The gift is part of who we are, has been for long time. Imagine if I tell you to put away your flamers, or you, Son of Medusa, your metal hand. Would you do it?’

 

This is coming from Jaghatai Khan's closest advisor. Sounds to me that they wouldn't even bother with deception.

[Kol Saresk]

That's why 1.)I put complied in parathenthesis and 2.)pointed out they only went so far to make it look like they complied. Hence the whole "Officially but unofficially" bit.

 

If we go into semantics, then everyone in the interpretation category, falls into the ignore category. Wolves, Fists, and Scars as they all knew what the Edict wanted, but disobeyed it anyways.

[Augustus]

Following your train of logic Kol, the Alpha Legion dismantled their librarius to and returned them to the line and only used them when specific missions called for their gifts. Out of sight. Couldn't we say the alpha legion are also under "interpretation" category as much as the scars?

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Following your train of logic Kol, the Alpha Legion dismantled their librarius to and returned them to the line and only used them when specific missions called for their gifts. Out of sight. Couldn't we say the alpha legion are also under "interpretation" category as much as the scars?

I bet you could make arguments to put the Alpha Legion in every category.  I'm not sure they Dismantled their Librarius though.  To me, the a important thing to note is if they restricted their psykers.  From what I under stand it was business as usual for the XX Legion.  It's just their usual is already hard to pin down.

[Kol Saresk]

Following your train of logic Kol, the Alpha Legion dismantled their librarius to and returned them to the line and only used them when specific missions called for their gifts. Out of sight. Couldn't we say the alpha legion are also under "interpretation" category as much as the scars?

You could argue that. Right now, the basic primary difference between intrepretation and ignore is the usage of psykers. In the case of the White Scars, Space Wolves and Imperial Fists, their psykers only used their powers when they needed to, but were otherwise supposed to hide in plain sight, with the exception of the Fists who were sequestered deep in the Phalanx.

 

What makes the Alpha Legion and Word Bearers ignore rather than interpret is that they still actively used their psykers in experiments(Battle for the Abyss for the Word Bearers; Deliverance Lost for the Alpha Legion) rather than just hiding them. In ither words, those Legions hid their Librarians because they were involved in experiments the Emperor most likely would not have approved of.

[DarKnight]

If it's stated earlier in the thread please let me know, but how are the Fists using librarians after the Edict?

[Fire Golem]

If it's stated earlier in the thread please let me know, but how are the Fists using librarians after the Edict?

It is. Apparantly, they were locked up in the Phalanx.

[Kol Saresk]

Burden of Duty is the siurce.

[Perrin]

Doesn't Dorn say he is saving them for when he wants to use them though? Rather than keeping them locked away because psykers are bad.

 

 

 

EDIT: Actually I think maybe he says he's locked them up to keep them safe until the Edict is repealed? Someone else will need to verify this.

[The Red Thirst]

Doesn't Dorn say he is saving them for when he wants to use them though? Rather than keeping them locked away because psykers are bad.

 

 

 

EDIT: Actually I think maybe he says he's locked them up to keep them safe until the Edict is repealed? Someone else will need to verify this.

Garro flat out tells Dorn that hes making a mistake by keeping them locked away and says something to the effect of "they need to be with their Legion, in the vault their talents are going to waste" but Dorn replies with "No, they are right where they need to be. Held close until the time is right."

[GhostMalone]

 

 

Doesn't Dorn say he is saving them for when he wants to use them though? Rather than keeping them locked away because psykers are bad.

 

 

 

EDIT: Actually I think maybe he says he's locked them up to keep them safe until the Edict is repealed? Someone else will need to verify this.

Garro flat out tells Dorn that hes making a mistake by keeping them locked away and says something to the effect of "they need to be with their Legion, in the vault their talents are going to waste" but Dorn replies with "No, they are right where they need to be. Held close until the time is right."

When sheed ranko appears the time is right

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Looks like there is more information on the Space Wolves. From The Horus Heresy: Howl of the Hearthworld.....

 

 

‘And you?’ Quilym asked the last of them.
The warrior’s head was shaved but for twin long, thick braids by his temples, while the back of his head was enclosed in the cradling protection of an armoured, psychically sensitive hood. His wolf pelts were black – all others were grey, brown, or white.
He was Fights the Final Winter, spirit-speaker and war-priest of the Runes, the Wind, the Frost, and the Bones. He was named for his first vision quest, when he dream-saw the end of all things in a future age when the Allfather’s triumph had turned to ash. He would die before he allowed that fate to come to pass.
‘Naukrim,’ he said. ‘I am what you would call a Librarian.’ A sense of stillness took form in the chamber in the wake of those words. ‘I notice you don’t write those words down like the others, little man. Is there a problem?’
Quilym met the Wolf’s eyes, unflinching, unblinking. ‘The Edict of Nikea...’
‘Ah.’ Fights the Final Winter gave a slight bow, seemingly of respect. ‘Perhaps I should say I was a Librarian. Now I stand with my brothers, using nothing but bolter and blade. Is that answer more to your satisfaction?’
The prelate touched his stylus to the data-slate’s surface, yet still made no mark. ‘You wear the wargear of one who still uses his powers.’
‘My shamans’ crown?’ Fights the Final Winter reached back to tap his armoured fingertips against the psychic hood. ‘To remove it would disrespect the spirit of my armour. It serves no other purpose.’
Quilym swallowed and, with surprising dignity, he stood up straighter. ‘I will not be lied to.’
The Wolves drew closer. Not in an armoured tide, not with weapons howling, but with the subtle leer of warriors who dearly wish to do what they do best. The servo-rich joints of their armour purred and snarled and growled.
Laughing Jaurmag was the one to speak. ‘You’ve had all the truth we intend to give, scribe. Write it down and be gone from our sight.’
Quilym narrowed his eyes, and for a moment it seemed he might hesitate.
‘Very well,’ he said at last. ‘I think that will do for now.’

 

 

 

Perhaps they were compliant?

[Kol Saresk]

Yeah....... compliant. What's that saying about if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck?

[Marshal Rohr]

Yeah....... compliant. What's that saying about if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck?

 

It's an Alpha Legionary attempting to infiltrate a pond?

[depthcharge12]

 

 

Yeah....... compliant. What's that saying about if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and looks like a duck?

It's an Alpha Legionary attempting to infiltrate a pond?

The pond was actually just another Alpha Legionary disguised...

[Emperor's Furor]

On the issue of Salamander Librarians..

 

 

Scorched Earth is based on the response of a Salamanders Librarian on Istvaan V after the battle is over

 

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

On the issue of Salamander Librarians..

 

 

Scorched Earth is based on the response of a Salamanders Librarian on Istvaan V after the battle is over

 

Anything post Istvaan V is kinda moot unless it sheds light on how the Legion operated pre Istvaan.  I don't have that book, anything you want to share?

[Emperor's Furor]

 

On the issue of Salamander Librarians..

 

 

Scorched Earth is based on the response of a Salamanders Librarian on Istvaan V after the battle is over

 

Anything post Istvaan V is kinda moot unless it sheds light on how the Legion operated pre Istvaan.  I don't have that book, anything you want to share?

 

 

Salamanders didn't have Librarians active they were sent to the ranks like the Ultramarine's ones were and thus when it happened were caught up in it