Breaking out my Blood Pact for Maelstrom

[Prot]

Hey guys,

 

I dunno if you many of you would remember my Blood Pact (in my sig) but I'm thinking of firing them up again for Maelstrom but I'm not sure I can play my old list. I've played a lot of Maelstrom with my other armies but my Blood Pact was old school... blob squad, a lot of tanks, a lot of shooty squads and little mobility (I do have quite a few Vendetta's and even more of the Valkyrie).

 

What is the best way of approaching Maelstrom? I was looking into a pure Scions list but they look horrible to me... am I wrong? At first glance the vehicles look bad and the troops over priced. Can anyone say they play these guys competitively?

 

My Blood Pact army isn't that big and since Maelstrom is about objectives, I was thinking of either going with squads in Chimera's, or more likely (beause I own them) using Vets in Flyers.

 

Which way would you recommend for Maelstrom?

[WarriorFish]

Mobility is vital for nabbing objectives so zooming in to capture them will be very good but I think the more reliable nature of trundling around in Chimeras might be more useful without further information on what you may be encountering. Of course the best is a mix of both :)

[Prot]

Well I guess I was hoping for help with units for aggressive play (if possible) with Astra. I used to do a main gunline/tankline, and go elite hunting with a few vets in Valks.

So I was hoping for 'all comers' ideas because I'm going to be blunt here, I have completely dissected Astra with my Dark Angels in all Maelstrom games in 7th. Don't read anything arrogant in that, it's just that I'm not seeing what works... What I guess I'm saying is I'm seeing too many people playing Imp Guard ala 6th edition, and I don't want to be one of those people.

I'd like Pask in my Executioner (plasma tank?) and at 1850 it gets sticky from here because I just keep throwing down the Aegis and dudesmen. So to be more aggressive I was thinking of lightening up on infantry and going air CAV. That's why I mentioned Tempestus Militarum but I have combed the forums and find very very very little positive going on there in a competitive environment.

That is a shame because I think the models are smokin' hot. The sort of thing that inspires me to do some painting, but the feedback seems so poor (btw I never ally) that it seems like a poor supplement.

I did play against a guy trying to ally 3 squads of Scions(?) deep striking against me with his Astra as the main force, and it was one of the biggest wins I've ever had with my DA. (which sucks for both of us).

This was going to be my Pask command tank with 2 other tanks- a Punisher and a regular Russ. But I'm tired of the paint scheme (trying to stay away from red in the future) and all of my Blood Pact are naturally this colour.

I did an inventory and I have a fair amount of infantry and most of my tanks are basic, with only one Chimera built and a Bane Wolf WIP (with multi melta), but I do have 1 Valk:

And I have 3 more WIP Valk/Vendettas so I could do something with that? I used to love vet Demo crews with Demo packs for added fun/instability! No idea if this is valid or not as I haven't seen anyone try it.

I'm thinking of going loyalist scheme if I can find something fun to paint (again love the Scion models and scheme (blue/gold!) but the supplement appears bad and takes away tanks (?!) without allying?

Sorry I'm jumping around a bit here, just trying to make sure I understand the supplement rules while getting advice with what I own moving forward.

Thanks.

[Dark_Apostle_XVII]

Sorry to divert from your point here but please post some more photos of that army in the lost and the damned section. They look great and we have been trying to increase traffic there for a while now :)

[hendrik]

I have only played the maelstrom so far. My list always had 4 chimera mounted infantry squads(In addition to a platoon on foot) with a melta,2 wyverns and a couple of russes(2-3) and other fun stuff.

[WarriorFish]

I take all varieties of Marines apart with my Guard, but you don't see me poo-pooing them for it A lot of players don't adapt well to changes and Guard is no exception, sometimes I wonder if it's worse thanks to the "leaf blower" nonsense though. Guard works very well if you know how you play them, same with any army but it's easy to think they just stand and shoot and that's a poor way to play any army.

Mobility is key for victory, keep it and you can react to your opponents and just as important move your bigger guns around. It's why I prefer them on tanks, freeing troopers up to scurry around with assault weaponry. It also keeps them cheap so you can maintain the infantry numbers edge on your opponent which is also important for success I find. For every unit he destroys two more are waiting to ambush him in return - that sort of thing.

So for your army I think you'd benefit from adding some more vehicles - some more Chimeras to ferry soldiers around would be great and they can muster quite a bit of shooting too. Russes are called the backbone of the Guard for a reason - durable and reliable I seldom leave home without them! A Pask Tank Commander is very good, and I can't recommend an Eradicator and a couple of Wyverns enough.

The Scions are really meant for allying I think, they can work without them as some of our own have proved but it's not easy and you must make use of their formations ideally - but great for a challenge if that's what you like So I'd recommend using them and their cool models as part of your Guard codex. Whatever you do the best thing is to experiment I reckon, find what works for you

Last but certainly not least, those are great models so as Apostle said you should be posting up more of them! Oh, and I hear there's some sort of Guard Transport painting challenge rolling up soon, might be a great way to add a Chimera to your force...

[Prot]

I have only played the maelstrom so far. My list always had 4 chimera mounted infantry squads(In addition to a platoon on foot) with a melta,2 wyverns and a couple of russes(2-3) and other fun stuff.

Chimera mounted infantry? Not veterans? Interesting. I've always kept my platoons static. Has this worked well for you? (Maelstrom)

Sorry to divert from your point here but please post some more photos of that army in the lost and the damned section. They look great and we have been trying to increase traffic there for a while now

Thank you. I have a secret expansion (small but at least it's something) I'm working on!

I take all varieties of Marines apart with my Guard, but you don't see me poo-pooing them for it A lot of players don't adapt well to changes and Guard is no exception,

Mobility is key for victory, keep it and you can react to your opponents and just as important move your bigger guns around. It's why I prefer them on tanks, freeing troopers up to scurry around with assault weaponry. It also keeps them cheap so you can maintain the infantry numbers edge on your opponent which is also important for success I find. For every unit he destroys two more are waiting to ambush him in return - that sort of thing.

So for your army I think you'd benefit from adding some more vehicles - some more Chimeras to ferry soldiers around would be great and they can muster quite a bit of shooting too. Russes are called the backbone of the Guard for a reason - durable and reliable I seldom leave home without them! A Pask Tank Commander is very good, and I can't recommend an Eradicator and a couple of Wyverns enough.

Last but certainly not least, those are great models so as Apostle said you should be posting up more of them! Oh, and I hear there's some sort of Guard Transport painting challenge rolling up soon, might be a great way to add a Chimera to your force...

Lots to think about here.... but firstly I know you're joking but what I meant about beating the Astra dudes is not a slight, as much as I still haven't seen what actually works for Astra in Maelstrom. I agree, and have been preaching myself about people playing 6th edition lists in a Maelstrom environment... it just doesn't work!

I'm not sure about the tank commander anymore . I keep weighing it against the normal HQ giving orders. Doing both is killing me for points. I was going to use what I have to start, although I'm working on some models as filler for more mobliity.

Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it) I have another Valkyrie (I have a few more spare Valk/Vendetta kits) I'm working on. I was thinking of using 2 Valks in a squad with two squads of Demo vets with 3 x melta each....

I'd like to have a flamer squad in an extra chimera to get some mobile toasties going too....

At 1850, I still foresee a traditional command and platoon with 2 squads of 3 lascannons behind an Aegis. If I put my tanks behind an Aegis, and throw on the new Camo net, do I get a 4+ cover?

Also looking at the Executioner I own, I'm assuming I will kill it myself in no time. Since every turn I'd be rolling 5 'gets hot' rolls a turn. Is there any way to help this situation?

There's so many goodies I can't try yet. I'd love to try Wyrdvane psykers. Can they cast divine (5 warp charges for a min squad right?) from within a Chimera to another squad?

Also the Master of Ordnance seems ridiculously easy to fit in, sitting in a command Chimera. The way I read it, every turn he can call down a strike for cheap... even if it always deviates. :)

Also looking at those new tanks (Wyverns) that have 4 blasts, denying cover. They seem cheap, but my typical stuff is probably loaded with basic templates anyway...

Sorry for all the different questions, I'm trying to play catch up now, and am seriously trying to put together a list for this weekend. Thanks for the advice/help.

[WarriorFish]

I don't think I'd run a CCS and TC outside of higher point games - too expensive unless the CCS was completely bare bones. Orders are fantastic so you should be aiming to use them as much as possible if you're not going small scale on troops with just Veterans for example.

 

Wyverns are cheap and will obliterate enemy light infantry and punish anything else. It's their points:effectiveness ratio that really pips them above most other anti-infantry blasts, with the number of shots and re-rolls you can hammer entire squads for a pittance. That's hard to pass up and frees your other FoC slots and points for the big guns, plus with a small modification or two you can easily have the Wyverns convert into Hydras :) Did I mention how much I love the Eradicator? :P

 

You can camp behind an Aegis for bonus cover with your tanks yes, but I wouldn't really recommend it unless you had plenty of troopers to help protect them. It's too static for me but can work if you treat it as more than a gimmick and build a strong entrenching army - as long as you understand the weaknesses of course.

 

Cheap Infantry Squads rolling around in a Chimera with a flamer will do good work for you in number, especially if you give the Chimera a hull heavy flamer for extra toasting. A few of these squads and reliably tackle anti-infantry and objective duties for you, forming a mutually supporting core with the rest of your army. The troops protect the big guns from the enemy and in return your big guns carry the day :)

[Prot]

Thanks for the additional advice. 

 

- I never played an eradicator before. Reading it, I'm not sure why you'd like it when you can get about 2 Wyverns in exchange? 

 

- Traditionally I've always put Vets in fast moving situations, however, I am thinking of blobbing up the Platoon and attaching a Priest....

 

- I may remove the Aegis and squeeze a few more troops out. 

 

I guess I'll just take it from there... but I am trying to figure out the cheapest way to get Prescience into the army.

[WarriorFish]

I loved Eradicators before the new codex, that they're much cheaper now is the icing on the cake. They do similar roles though so it depends what spin you want on an infantry murdering machine. The Eradicator benefits from greatly increased durability and more reliability - the Wyverns blast through with weight of dice but the Eradicator hits hard right off the bat. S6 AP4 ignores cover is mean, ask anything short of Marines ;) They're both great at what they do so as you said you'd likely not need both unless you had major infantry problems!

 

Go forth and experiment Prot, the Guard codex is very versatile so there's a list build out there for you :) Let us know what you find :tu:

[hendrik]

Infantry squads in chimeras have worked like a charm for me,although you can go for veterans since they are only 10 pts more. In a lot of games I didn't even deploy the infantry from their chimera since the objectives changed so much... their true power was the chimera,with a meltagun hiding in it just in case. Note that 4 veteransquads will almost cost you a wyvern extra over normal infantry squads! I haven't really bothered with orders a lot since I often forget about them,or have not that many units nearby to order around

[hendrik]

Also due to brotherhood of psychers a single wyrdvane squad will only get you 1 WC,if you want to go the psychic heavy route take coteaz+10 x (2henchmen+psycher). It's 280 pts and gives you 12 WC and 10 additional superscoring units!not to mention nobody wants to target 28pts units,and if they do they just wasted those shots on an expendable unit! ;)

[Prot]

+++Update+++

 

I had a game last night with the Blood Pact at 1850. I experimented with a few different things but tried to keep a synergy around the list while maintaining some integrity for Maelstrom.  I based the list on ranged tanks, and close quarters infantry, with Straken at the core. (evil Blood Pact straken AKA Krakken !?)

 

Anyway I did take pics, and I faced Orks, but I don't think I'll do a real batrep. The game was very interesting and  started out with a lot of fail on my part, but as the game went on I couldn't believe how hard he hit me in close combat.  I watched a few squads pack up and go back to the Imperium.

 

Oddly enough as I thought I was just about toast, and had a few key units fail epicly! (flyers and vets namely)... I ended up having a great countercharge Infantrly mini-blob backed by a priest  put a serious hurt on two squads, eventually Strakken/Krakken ended up smoking a biker Warboss and next thing I knew I could pull ahead in the game winning a very close game. 

 

The list felt very good, but there was (expectantly so) some fat to trim and purely some experimentation. Oddly enough I played Straken (Blood Pact) almost exclusively in my last run with Guard/Astra.

 

I confess I was pretty pumped up at the end, and I do sincerely feel the codex offers a lot of ways to compete. I originally felt very motivated to start or commence a 1850 point Catachan project (yes even though some of the models are a little dated I felt I could work with it.)

 

Then I realized the finances to restart my IG might be too much. Unfortunately as much as I like the look of my Blood Pact, I'm a little tired of the reds, and the scheme. So I may revisit this if I figure things out, but I did feel the codex has a lot of playability in 7th with the Maelstrom mission type. Very few lame duck units - very diverse. 

[WarriorFish]

Good to hear :) Guard can do nasty things to Orks but supporting elements are vital for when they inevitably hit your lines. You've enough models to be playing with now so you can slowly add the odd unit when you can. The best way to collect any army really, if only we could resist temptation :lol:

[Prot]

I have really thought about that wisdom. I'm still on the fence, just because of the size of any Astra project involves a lot (and I play 1850).

 

So to start I think I'm going to do a repaint on one of my many Valkyries with some spray and see if I can make it look Catachan enough. One piece at a time.  Which is utterly against anything I've done to this point in the hobby. lol

[WarriorFish]

If you manage to do that, then you would have achieved the impossible! Better than me who decided to repaint two whole armies at once :lol:

 

Don't forget to let us know how it goes, Catachan colour schemes are cool :tu:

[Kilofix]

You know whats funny?

 

I look at your red Renegades and think, man I should have painted mine red - its so much more striking and bold. Meanwhile, you're getting tired of that color scheme. We need to be able to exchange armies for a couple of weeks.

 

[WarriorFish]

The grass is always greener - or in this case redder ;)

[Prot]

You know whats funny?

 

I look at your red Renegades and think, man I should have painted mine red - its so much more striking and bold. Meanwhile, you're getting tired of that color scheme. We need to be able to exchange armies for a couple of weeks.

 

 

That's hilarious. That army looks great. I love it.

 

I tried working on a catachan schemed valkyrie tonight. It was horrible. Not sure if I'll post a picture.

 

In the background I've fired up another 10 man Blood Pact squad to see what I could do with them this time around. The red doesn't challenge me like it used to, but I do confess I like how it looks when it's done.

[Prot]

A moment from my last game against Orks:

Here I thought it was all over. The Orks had just waag'd and I was knee deep in poo-flinging greenskins. (excuse all the wip items I have in the game. :) )

My Strakken gave the beatdown to the remaining biker boss. I almost lost every tank on the table in this turn. Flyers held true though, but did no damage. Somehow I pushed the buggers back from my zone in my half of the turn using Strakken, a proxied Wyvern (great unit!) and a Platoon backed by a priest! It was a pretty great ending that could have went either way.

[WarriorFish]

The best games are always the closest :) Hopefully the foul greenskins will learn not to underestimate a Guardsman ;) Get two Wyverns and they'll learn to fear instead! :lol: