Tenebris Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Greetings, fellow chaos lords, sorcerers, heretics and otherwise unnamed chaos scum. What are we to do in the following days is to build a working list with the Dark Vengeance models. Why you would ask? Let's just say that we are to see an update of many topics here on the Chaos forums and I see it fitting to provide new turncoats, renegades and wannabe chaos lords with a working list (1000, 1500 and 1850 points) based upon the Dark Vengeance CSM part. It is a starter set so most of the new players begin with it and it comes also with the best started models released so far by GW. Like it or not it is also the major font of Cultist cells and uprisings across the Imperium as well as a veritable treasure trove for great Aspiring Champion models as well as the first true "chaos" Chaos Space Marines we have seen in a while. The aim of this topic is to make Dark Vengeance work as a part of a general army list, with the baseline codex, readily to be expanded with supplements. It would be also great if we try to keep the price tag for the expansion of the army as low as possible. We all know that GW prices are not exactly friendly and so a buying list should come included too. Now the contents of the Dark Vengeance - Chaos part are: - Chaos Lord with a Plasma Pistol, Sword - 6 Chosen with, Power Maul, Power Fist, pair of Lightning Claws, Power Axe - 10 Cultists with Autoguns, Shotgun and Heavy Stubber - 10 Cultists with Pistol/CCW with a Heavy Flamer - Helbrute with Multimelta/Power Fist So we are looking at an average of 500-600 points worth of Chaos Space Marines. Let's work our magic, share our insights and build CSM standalone armies that have a chance on tabletop. The best lists will be then presented in a specific sticky topic for all to see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Truthfully we should also include a CS list. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3783855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanofAngels Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 Are we allowed to chop up the Hellbrute to turn it into an Aegis Line? Personally, I think running the HQ (lord in the box) as a sorcerer is often a better idea. The chosen are decent enough they just don't have a particularly dedicated role, so I would (if possible) run them as "counts as" with different weapons (i.e. power weapons or even special weapons). Unfortunately, it can be hard to make DV work right out of the box but with a little tinkering it can certainly be workable! And it is still invaluable as a starter set, which is how most people use it, unless of course they are trying to stockpile a ton of cultists! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3784040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 well I've just picked up DV and decided to run a Tzeentch warband with the chaos bits straight out of the box, I might change the multi melta on the dread as I have spare bits from the brute box but other than that all the changes will be purely cosmetic and everything will have the same loadouts as they come inbox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3784181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soldier of Dorn Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Shouldn't you include the new model that's in the revised set? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3784652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The aspiring champion model is definitely a better stand in lord than Krannon-not that his model isn't cool and all, he's got Loki Horns, but I feel about Capes and Powerarmor like I do about Robes and Power Armor...either the material for the cape/robe is stronger than the power armor-and could potentially trip the guys, or it'll get torn and ripped to shreds while they are moving around and fighting, so either way it's at best pointless, or at worst a danger to the wearer. But the cape and the crazy magical looking sword (and again, Loki horns) are more indicative of a Sorcerer than anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3784736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonlover Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Would it be possible to include the DA stuff in a list? I know a couple of guys that bought the box and immediately went to town with the clippers and green stuff. Dragonlover Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3784993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'd use the Aspiring Champion as a cheap Lord, and I'd want to potentially the chosen as a CSM squad (marked, Nurgle, naturally) - although the weapons don't really suit this sadly. And, as aforementioned, you could utilise Kranon as a Sorcerer. It's hard, but that would at least give you some foundations to start with. I do think it's hard - realistically, the only thing that's properly usable are the Cultists, if we're being honest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785000 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted August 21, 2014 Author Share Posted August 21, 2014 Well it is indeed an option but I would prefer it to be "loyalist free" as much as possible. My idea for a list is something like the following: Aspiring Champion = Chaos Lord, Axe of Blind Fury, MoK; Combimelta, Sigil of Corruption Chosen = as they come with MoK Chaos Land Raider Helcult Formation Chaos Sorcerer 2x CSM MSU with Rhino/Havoc Heldrake/Forgefiend/Maulerfiend/Obliterators in order to fill the points. In this way all models are used, the cultists are strong and resilient due to the Helcult formations, same goes for the Helbrute. The Land Raider is filled with Lord and his Chosen in order to deliver them on target and avoid the cost for Berzerkers, Juggernaut, Spawn... All in all the buying list would be a Land Raider, 2x Rhino and 1x CSM squad. The rest is filler with either some ranged support or some Maulerfiends. It should readily escalate for all the point ranges. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Land Raider is a bit of an odd addition if I'm honest - is it purely a delivery mechanism for the Chosen and Champion? You suggest it is - but that's just extortionate at most levels anyway. Better to utilise a Rhino, and spend the points on say a Heldrake or anything else? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Sheesh and others can attest to Raider Chosen, but you need armor saturation, and a baby sitter like Khârn for melee chosen. You're better off with draznicht or Cypher for Plasma Chosen. Don't forget the Helcult is not OS, sadly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Perhaps that's just me thinking too competitively - I cannot justify that sort of points outlay for a squad with a rather eclectic set of weaponry. Either for the squad or for the delivery system. Plasma Havocs/Chosen I could get behind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 Isn't it better to start from scratch. unless someone wants the chosen to be PM counts as and/or use the bikes and terminators [as chaos bikers and oblits], then there is little in the box to work with. I would do something like this Sorc[aka DA libby] Sorc[Aka chaos lord] 20xcultists 5pms[4 DA and chosen with mace] 5pms[4 DA and the chosen with ax 3xbikers 2x2 oblits[from terminators] 1xmutilator[from the twin LC chosen and a terminator] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785111 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm actually considering just using the Bolter Chosen for my Plague champs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I'm actually considering just using the Bolter Chosen for my Plague champs. They look good in that role. Chosen are lovely models for sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785174 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 its all very well saying 'id change this, convert that and do whatever to next doors cat, or saying that its not worth using straight out the box, but were not n00bs, think of little Jimbo, gets the starter set and dex for xmas, his bro gets the Dark Angels and he gets the chaos bits, how does he use it? how should he expand the army. Yes most of us are vet of hundreds of battles, some of us even remember fighting in first ed, but we gotta thing of the snot nosed dribbler whos starting out, the future of the hobby, if he reads this god knows what he thinks, 'oh this is crap, thats worthless, wont work in my local meta' think of the children guys THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!! *sobs* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
incinerator950 Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I wish I had a hundred battkea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785475 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 move to the uk, ill beat you on a daily basis :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 its all very well saying 'id change this, convert that and do whatever to next doors cat, or saying that its not worth using straight out the box, but were not n00bs, think of little Jimbo, gets the starter set and dex for xmas, his bro gets the Dark Angels and he gets the chaos bits, how does he use it? how should he expand the army. Yes most of us are vet of hundreds of battles, some of us even remember fighting in first ed, but we gotta thing of the snot nosed dribbler whos starting out, the future of the hobby, if he reads this god knows what he thinks, 'oh this is crap, thats worthless, wont work in my local meta' think of the children guys THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!! *sobs* Even if little Jimbo does, he'll soon realise that most isn't fit for purpose and that re-appropriating will be essential. I don't believe I've yet seen a new player start Chaos because of that set... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 its all very well saying 'id change this, convert that and do whatever to next doors cat, or saying that its not worth using straight out the box, but were not n00bs, think of little Jimbo, gets the starter set and dex for xmas, his bro gets the Dark Angels and he gets the chaos bits, how does he use it? how should he expand the army. Yes most of us are vet of hundreds of battles, some of us even remember fighting in first ed, but we gotta thing of the snot nosed dribbler whos starting out, the future of the hobby, if he reads this god knows what he thinks, 'oh this is crap, thats worthless, wont work in my local meta' think of the children guys THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!! *sobs* Well then he has a bad brother/friends that play w40k. unless someone wants the mini rulebook the set ain't a good starting set for chaos players, specialy without DA. This is the stuff a starting chaos players needs to buy The codex, the other codex, the fortification book, the rulebook 11 bikers[out of which 3 will be HQs] 40 cultists 30 power armored dudes 3 rhinos 12 spawn 6oblits everything else is build restricted[maulers,, land raiders or non compulsory[any of the specials, helldrake] or is ally[and has a good chance of him feeling bad for picking chaos+he has to buy another codex]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3785988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to Darkness Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Greetings, fellow chaos lords, sorcerers, heretics and otherwise unnamed chaos scum. What are we to do in the following days is to build a working list with the Dark Vengeance models. Why you would ask? Let's just say that we are to see an update of many topics here on the Chaos forums and I see it fitting to provide new turncoats, renegades and wannabe chaos lords with a working list (1000, 1500 and 1850 points) based upon the Dark Vengeance CSM part. It is a starter set so most of the new players begin with it and it comes also with the best started models released so far by GW. Like it or not it is also the major font of Cultist cells and uprisings across the Imperium as well as a veritable treasure trove for great Aspiring Champion models as well as the first true "chaos" Chaos Space Marines we have seen in a while. The aim of this topic is to make Dark Vengeance work as a part of a general army list, with the baseline codex, readily to be expanded with supplements. It would be also great if we try to keep the price tag for the expansion of the army as low as possible. We all know that GW prices are not exactly friendly and so a buying list should come included too. People seem to forget the point of this thread, the whole point is to do something, anything with the DV minis, were not talking tourny winning WAACgamer crushing psycho cheese with beard list. Also its not a X Y Z units are :cuss but if you play chaos then you NEED this (no offence meant to you jeske, that might be what is needed to have a good army in your local meta, and its YOUR opinion and I respect that entirely), I dont have any bikers, use half the amount of cultists, hardly use rhinos, no spawn or oblits and I do quite well on the field of battle, sure I dont win every game but I win more than I loose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/295484-dark-vengeance-lets-build-a-working-list/#findComment-3786600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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