30k Vehicle/Automata Concepts - The Manufactorum

[Majorbookworm]

For some reason I have a weird fascination with how the Legions actually deploy in logistical terms - same with any other faction (e.g how do landspeeders get planetside from orbit?)

Haha, you're not the only one. For a setting supposedly about endless war on a galactic scale, GW has done a rather poor job of illustrating that scale. Awesome artwork btw

Edited September 10, 2016 by Majorbookworm

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

What about borrowing slightly from Thunderbird 2?? Having the Thunderhawk or even Storm Eagle transporter carrying a "pod" that carries bikes/speeders/supplies.

 

Yeah, I get where you're coming from - I've always assumed (and I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned in the background) that Thunderhawk Transporters are used to ferry supplies / cargo to planetside forces (and by extension, Storm Eagle Transporters would too). However, when it comes to deploying skimmers, if you're gonna have them in capsules, why not just cut out the intermediary aircraft and deploy them in specialized Drop Pods? I can certainly see for Jetbikes, having a larger Drop Pod where the Bikes are held parallel to the deployment ramps (i.e they'd be vertical when the Pod was in flight, and then would lower to horizontal with the ramps) could work, and Landspeeders might fit in the Dreadnought Pods.

 

That said, I just like the idea of Dropships descending into the atmosphere and releasing a number of smaller vehicles, kinda like a carrier.

 

Thanks for the input though!

 

 

For some reason I have a weird fascination with how the Legions actually deploy in logistical terms - same with any other faction (e.g how do landspeeders get planetside from orbit?)

Haha, you're not the only one. For a setting supposedly about endless war on a galactic scale, GW has done a rather poor job of illustrating that scale. Awesome artwork btw

 

 

I dunno, the basics are usually fleshed out pretty well, but when you get into the details, it's hard to avoid it becoming Space Admin^TM   

[Ekim_Trub]

My idea behind the carrier pod instead of a drop pod was that the Speeders/Bikes may get damaged in the impact and space limitations.

 

The carrier pod could also be used as a sort of resupply/station while deployed as well? (Might use this as something for my DIY actually.)

[Doctor Perils]

My idea behind the carrier pod instead of a drop pod was that the Speeders/Bikes may get damaged in the impact and space limitations.

 

The carrier pod could also be used as a sort of resupply/station while deployed as well? (Might use this as something for my DIY actually.)

What's great with the carrier pod idea is that Games Workshop already produce a model for it :P

 

But I agree with IHF on the idea of having a dropship with a flight of Jetbikes that peel away from it, at more or less high altitude - they can then attack one target while the gunship attacks another. Perhaps this gunship could have special manoeuvre rules when what it transports is detached, as it will end up being lighter (I imagine)

[Ekim_Trub]

Yeah, the only issue with that model is it is a little small.

 

The jetbike carrying ship is very intriguing- a gunship that can deploy jetbikes to not only attack seperate attacks but also defend it would be a cool concept.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

My idea behind the carrier pod instead of a drop pod was that the Speeders/Bikes may get damaged in the impact and space limitations.

 

The carrier pod could also be used as a sort of resupply/station while deployed as well? (Might use this as something for my DIY actually.)

 

Yeah I can see that working - although probably more likely to be deployed in longer-duration engagements, rather than in a first-strike capacity.

 

In terms of the Pods, we've seen the Kharybdis, so presumably larger drop pods would be equally feasible, and in terms of surviving impact, if the Legions have decent enough inertial dampeners to make assault rams survivable, and Dreads can endure being dropped in, I can't see why the Legions couldn't overcome the same issues with Jetbikes / Landspeeders.

 

 

My idea behind the carrier pod instead of a drop pod was that the Speeders/Bikes may get damaged in the impact and space limitations.

 

The carrier pod could also be used as a sort of resupply/station while deployed as well? (Might use this as something for my DIY actually.)

What's great with the carrier pod idea is that Games Workshop already produce a model for it

 

But I agree with IHF on the idea of having a dropship with a flight of Jetbikes that peel away from it, at more or less high altitude - they can then attack one target while the gunship attacks another. Perhaps this gunship could have special manoeuvre rules when what it transports is detached, as it will end up being lighter (I imagine)

 

Yeah, the only issue with that model is it is a little small.

 

The jetbike carrying ship is very intriguing- a gunship that can deploy jetbikes to not only attack seperate attacks but also defend it would be a cool concept.

 

I'm not really sure it would work particularly well in that manner, as I'm pretty sure that Jetbikes / Landspeeders have an operational ceiling of around 100 meters, so wouldn't really work as escorts, I just think of it as the fastest way possible to deploy Legion skimmers to the field.

[Dono1979]

Love the Storm Eagle Transporter!!

I am a massive fan of logistical roles as well, I recently managed to get my hands on a Thunderhawk Transporter and already have a few Arvus Lighters and an Aquila Lander. Even when used as just terrain, it really adds to the atmosphere of the game.

I wander whether you could do a conversion using the Valkyrie Skytalon?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lG5S3-l9TjM/UatkCFXd09I/AAAAAAAAABE/-o13wfmT190/s1600/SkyTalon.jpg

[Dono1979]

For some reason I have a weird fascination with how the Legions actually deploy in logistical terms - same with any other faction (e.g how do landspeeders get planetside from orbit?), so to further that, here's the Storm Eagle Transporter:

 

Storm Eagle Transporter:

 

 

 

There's one issue that I couldn't overcome however - due to the Storm Eagle's smaller size compared to the Thunderhawk, it wouldn't be capable of deploying it's landing gear whilst a vehicle is embarked without making said landing gear unfeasibly massive - which is fine as the VTOL jets would allow for the retrieval or deployment of vehicles, but you couldn't have them sitting on the tarmac with a vehicle embarked. 

 

 

You could make it similar to the Skytalon or Thunderhawk Transporter and have the chassis significantly reduced at the point of the transport section, so that it really is just a support structure with no internal space. So rather than hanging down further, the transported item would be held up higher 'inside' the frame of the aircraft.

[Dono1979]

kind of like this:

 

 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Yeah I had considered that, but even with a further reduction of the hull, you might be able to fit a Rhino under it with landing gear deployed, but you'd never fit a predator or either type of Sicaran, so I thought it was better to go with a thicker fuselage to account for the heavier prow - I'd rather it worked the same way for all the vehicles it carries with a bigger hull than carry Rhinos in a slightly easier way.

 

Personal preference I guess

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Over on my other 30k illustration thread, I've been experimenting with some new concepts for Mechanicum units, and I thought I'd use that as an excuse to mess around with some stuff from the 40k AdMech range, as the Skitarii will eventually be a faction included in the Heresy series.

So first up is an artillery variant on the Onager chassis, the Mangonel Dunecrawler:

Mangonel Dunecrawler:

It just seemed logical to me that the Dunecrawler would be used to mount artillery so that it could be deployed in locations too difficult for tanks to reach, allowing the Ordo Reductor to besiege fortifications from unexpected positions - being able to deploy artillery in mountainous terrain could potentially be a huge advantage.

Anyhow, it's shown above with a Galvanic Bombard - pretty much an upscaled version of the Secutarii Peltasts' Galvanic Caster, capable of firing a couple of different kinds of shell. If I ever get around to a rules write-up, I'll include an option to exchange it for a pattern of Plasma Mortar, similar to the Thanatar's.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Iron Hands Fanatic

[Runefyre]

Awesome! Your work is very inspiring.

 

Definitely reminiscent (in a grimdark way) of the AV-7 Anti-vehicle Cannon: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AV-7_Antivehicle_Cannon

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Awesome! Your work is very inspiring.

 

Definitely reminiscent (in a grimdark way) of the AV-7 Anti-vehicle Cannon: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/AV-7_Antivehicle_Cannon

 

Thanks dude - yeah I've never seen that before, but looks kinda cool.

 

When (read: if :P ) I make rules for this, I'll probably do a set for both 30k & 40k - the Plasma Mortar will have the same plasma wave rule as the Thanatar, and both weapon options will have different moving / stationary ranges.

 

I'm currently considering the different shell options for the Galvanic Bombard, currently looking like:

* Gravitic Surge Shell - pretty much an artillery Graviton weapon profile - it'll get Ruination to up it's power against fortifications

* Sub-munition Cluster Shell - anti-infantry shell, larger blast size with ignores cover

* Phosphex Annihilation Shell - similar to the Medusa's option (40k version will get an incendiary / phosphor alternative)

[Olis]

As an old AoE:II player, I approve of the name 'Mangonel'. ^_^

 

Sweet concept art, btw. :tu:

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

As an old AoE:II player, I approve of the name 'Mangonel'.

 

Sweet concept art, btw.

 

Thanks, with 'Onager' referring to a Roman catapult, I thought it'd be an appropriate naming convention for variations on the Dunecrawler chassis.

 

As an aside, I'll probably do an anti-aircraft platform utilising the Dunecrawler base too - basically a large ball-turret atop the Dunecrawler legs, with a Servo-automata gunner built directly into the sphere's structure, called the Petraria / Couillard Dunecrawler.

 

It'll be armed either with the Deredeo's Hellfire Plasma Carronade (with the 4 barrels arranged at the points of an 'x') or a twin-linked Decimator Storm Laser

 

I'll also probably use the ball-turret configuration on a couple of other Mechanicum units - namely mounted on a Krios hull and on a large aircraft

[Atia]

Ok buddy. Be serious. How many months/semesters left 'till you can try to get that FW job? 

[Olis]

Ball turrets. Nice. 

 

I look forward to the sketches. ^_^

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Ok buddy. Be serious. How many months/semesters left 'till you can try to get that FW job? 

 

Well, I've just started my last year, so in theory now? However, it's a bit trickier.

 

Firstly, I'm no way near skilled enough to be part of the FW team, aside from the fact that they don't seem to have dedicated concept artists. From what I can tell, their miniature designers are the ones who do any concept sketches prior to the sculpting process, and they have dedicated graphic designers and writers. My problem is that I'm a bit of a jack of all trades - I can sketch pretty well, but I'm not nearly good enough to produce art of the standard required by FW's products; I've dabbled in Photoshop / formatting, but I'm not a graphic designer; I can write stock text pretty well, but I'm not nearly a writer; and I've never really tried my hand at sculpting before (I'd love to learn 3D CAD, but I've had no opportunity). Basically, there's no slot for me to fill in the FW team, I'm not talented enough to apply for any of their dedicated roles, and they've never advertised for a job anything like a concept artist.

 

Now, for the past two years, GW's main studio has advertised for a 'Miniature Conceptualiser' job, which seemed perfect for what I've been doing (although my passion is for 30k, I've had loads of ideas for non-human 40k armies & AoS, but I've been limited by time & the B&C's remit). However, I couldn't actually apply for it because I still had at least 2 years of uni left. And this summer, as I was prepping the 5 pieces of artwork which I could send with my application (which I could finally submit this year, considering I could actually accept a job offer within the foreseeable future) the job advertisement was removed from GW's website. Now, it's not the first time that's happened, but it was previously put back up pretty quickly, whereas this time it's been absent for about 2 months.

 

So it's not easy at all. Plus I now have time constraints - I can keep waiting to see if the miniatures conceptualiser job reappears, but after this year I really need a next step, which will probably be a Masters considering I don't really have the skill to compete in the wider world of Concept Art.

 

It was a nice dream for a while, but I'm not sure it's realistic.

 

Edit: that said, I  have every intention to keep trying!

Edited September 22, 2016 by Iron Hands Fanatic

[Soldier of Dorn]

or a twin-linked Decimator Storm Laser

 

That sounds amazing. I'm seriously looking forward to seeing this now.

[Sandlemad]

Love it. Was a bit disappointed when I first saw GW's dunecrawler, thought is was perfect for a weird Ordo Reductor siege engine rather than a MBT type affair. You have more than filled that niche. Do you see this as having the same kind of shielding setup as the Krios?

 

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with planning your movements out. If you haven't already, would it be worth enquiring informally to the FW studio about that miniature conceptualiser role? It might give a better idea of what they're after and what kind of other positions they expect to have. You're clearly already well-informed but it seems to be a bit of a time of change for FW and GW generally, and it would probably do no harm to express some interest. I daresay they're already aware of your excellent work.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I figured this might be the place for this:

 

I'm a 40k guard player, and I'm looking to convert my Guard over to being a Solar Auxilia force. I have a bunch of vehicles that don't exist in HH, yet. I was wondering if you maybe had any ideas on doing:

 

Proto-chimeras (they must exist, since the legions are using chimera chassis vehicles)

Proto-Valkyries

Proto-Vultures

 

I can't accept that these vehicles just don't exist during the heresy.

[lokkorex]

Any chance you might do a sketch for the MULE?

[malika666]

Have you considered doing these types of artwork for more 6mm of ship scale oriented stuff?

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

 

or a twin-linked Decimator Storm Laser

 

That sounds amazing. I'm seriously looking forward to seeing this now.

 

 

Part of the stuff I'm planning with my move towards a bit more Mechanicum stuff is linking the 40k Daemon Engines with 30k units - akin to the Plague Drone / Vulturax Stratos-Automata.

 

I've even got (perhaps slightly too) ambitious plans for a 30k Automata style aircraft related to the Hell Talon/Claw fighters, with a cybernetica cortex in place of a pilot, a massive central engine, a Hellfire Plasma Carronade, and a set of moving wings along the lines of the X-wing

 

Love it. Was a bit disappointed when I first saw GW's dunecrawler, thought is was perfect for a weird Ordo Reductor siege engine rather than a MBT type affair. You have more than filled that niche. Do you see this as having the same kind of shielding setup as the Krios?

 

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with planning your movements out. If you haven't already, would it be worth enquiring informally to the FW studio about that miniature conceptualiser role? It might give a better idea of what they're after and what kind of other positions they expect to have. You're clearly already well-informed but it seems to be a bit of a time of change for FW and GW generally, and it would probably do no harm to express some interest. I daresay they're already aware of your excellent work.

 

Thanks Sandlemad, yeah fluff-wise I want it's armour to be more about energy shields than actual plating, but I might go with low Armour values with an invulnerable save & flare shield rather than give it normal AVs and reference it in the background. It wont get the overlapping shield thing that the Onager gets, primarily because it isn't really supposed to be on the front line.

 

On an incidental note, the weird dish things around the base of the gun platform are the same as the field projectors on the Knights Styrix / Megaera.

 

Yeah I fully intend to put out feelers in the near future, I'm trying to see if I can find out the best channel of communication to open a dialogue, and I've thought about the changes that appear to be going on in the studio at the moment too. My best bet if GW's main studio isn't looking for a miniature conceptualiser anymore is if the Specialist Games / FW studios need new concepts considering they're resurrecting entire game lines and if they would want someone to help with multiple lines.

 

But yeah, it's all speculative at the moment - I'm basically sitting on GW's job site until I make a move about contact.

 

I figured this might be the place for this:

 

I'm a 40k guard player, and I'm looking to convert my Guard over to being a Solar Auxilia force. I have a bunch of vehicles that don't exist in HH, yet. I was wondering if you maybe had any ideas on doing:

 

Proto-chimeras (they must exist, since the legions are using chimera chassis vehicles)

Proto-Valkyries

Proto-Vultures

 

I can't accept that these vehicles just don't exist during the heresy.

 

Well, I'm generally pretty conservative (most definately with a small C ) when it comes to these designs - for me, FW's stuff is gospel, so I'd never consider doing Vulture / Valkyrie based designed without some kind of precedent from Forge World.

 

However, like you said, there is some leeway considering the Chimera due to the Legion Basilisk / Medusa, and I've already capitalised on that for the Legion Grendel & Sphinx. And I have actually been working on something along the same lines for the Solar Auxilia / Imperialis Militia.

 

The working title is the Bellephron Strike Tank, and aesthetically it's pretty much a Macharius-style take on the Chimera chassis, inspired by the homebrew Mortian Tank. It will only have a turret weapon - no hull-mount - and it'll be a fast attack squad. I'm currently musing over the turret weapon, and I might go in the direction of the Conqueror Battle Cannon, but it's still in development. I've made a pretty decent start on the illustration, but I don't have it with me here at Uni, so it'll be a while before I can post anything image-wise.

 

Fluff-wise, I think you can get away with variants on the Chimera based of the idea that different human societies spread across the Galaxy will have retained incomplete STCs for the Chimera, but the fragments required to form a complete STC weren't discovered until after the Heresy, so the full Chimera couldn't be produced, and the variants would probably be difficult to manufacture / have mechanical issues.

 

Any chance you might do a sketch for the MULE?

 

Hadn't heard of it before, but a quick google suggests an open-topped Rhino with relocated smoke stacks & a variant with a large retractable missile launcher?

 

Well, for the non-launcher variant, the Rhino Advancer seems to fill that role already, and we've got a whole host of different Whirlwind variants - personally, I don't really see any reason to cover the MULE as well

 

Thanks, but no thanks

 

Have you considered doing these types of artwork for more 6mm of ship scale oriented stuff?

 

I've considered it for ships, sure - but my main limiting factor is time, and I've gone in this direction purely because it's actually relevant to a game system which is currently available to purchase. However, if the rumours of Battlefleet Gothic returning are true, I may do some stuff in that direction at a later date - I'm constantly having ideas for stuff that doesn't get featured on my threads, and I've got plenty of ideas inspired by Collected Visions for large scale void-craft.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Iron Hands Fanatic

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Well, I'm generally pretty conservative (most definately with a small C ) when it comes to these designs - for me, FW's stuff is gospel, so I'd never consider doing Vulture / Valkyrie based designed without some kind of precedent from Forge World.

Ah. I had picked up on that vibe, but I didn't realize that it was more or less a hard and fast rule. Still though, GW and FW are the creators of all this stuff, so I suppose that's a fair guideline.

 

 

However, like you said, there is some leeway considering the Chimera due to the Legion Basilisk / Medusa, and I've already capitalised on that for the Legion Grendel & Sphinx. And I have actually been working on something along the same lines for the Solar Auxilia / Imperialis Militia.

Ok. I'm interested to see what you come up with. My own thoughts were a fast vehicle with a pintle mounted multilaser/heavy bolter/flamer and the hull weapon. The turret on my 40k chimeras could be explained away as simply being an armored cupola (local world variation).

 

 

The working title is the Bellephron Strike Tank, and aesthetically it's pretty much a Macharius-style take on the Chimera chassis, inspired by the homebrew Mortian Tank. It will only have a turret weapon - no hull-mount - and it'll be a fast attack squad. I'm currently musing over the turret weapon, and I might go in the direction of the Conqueror Battle Cannon, but it's still in development. I've made a pretty decent start on the illustration, but I don't have it with me here at Uni, so it'll be a while before I can post anything image-wise.

That would be a pretty interesting thing to see. Especially to see how it would differ from the Crassus. I do wonder why the Macharius isn't present in 30k though, since the STC had to be rediscovered and the tank was known during the heresy it would seem... Not to mention the availability of the Macharius (and variants, like the Crassus and Praetor) as an Optional LoW in the Legions Astartes lists...

 

 

Fluff-wise, I think you can get away with variants on the Chimera based of the idea that different human societies spread across the Galaxy will have retained incomplete STCs for the Chimera, but the fragments required to form a complete STC weren't discovered until after the Heresy, so the full Chimera couldn't be produced, and the variants would probably be difficult to manufacture / have mechanical issues.

Yeah. Like I said, a simple chimera hull with an armored box welded in the back with a cupola/pintle mounted heavy weapon with the fast rule was pretty much what I was thinking, maybe accounting for the lasgun arrays, though you could just make those firing ports...

 

As for the Valkyrie/Vulture, It was just a thought. I can't understand why FW didn't open 30k to more of it's model range (even former models).