GrandMasterAralia Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Good evening fellow soldiers of the Astra Militarum! I had the pleasure of bringing my Elysian 73rd Recon to battle against vile traitorous guardsmen last night. 1k battle which I won very narrowly due to first blood by a couple of drop sentinels melta'ing a hellhound. After the game I got to thinking about the armoured cockpit upgrade for my vulture gunship. The traitorguards had a Hydra tank that proved extremely deadly to my army of deepstrikers and flyers. But I got to thinking about the most widespread (in my meta atleast) anti air weapons' effectiveness. The most anti air I see is either flakk missiles or autocannons, both of which don't have any bonus on the vehicle damage chart, therefore giving a shaken/stunned result half the time. In the game last night, my vulture suffered two pens by the hydra when it arrived from reserves, these two were both stunned (downgraded to shaken by extra armour) results which rendered my shooting far less effecient, if I had upgraded my vulture with armoured cockpit I could have had a chance of ignoring the snapfire penalty. Of course, statistically, one of the shaken results would still have had it's effect, but the Hydra did get lucky with two pens, right (haven't done the math)? So my question to you savvy generals out there. Would you consider armoured cockpit for the gunship, or could the points be better spent elsewhere? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I think you might have answered your own question there! If there's plenty of AA weapons in your meta you need to decide on how to deal with that. Either you scrap flyers to negate it or improve your flying options. Improving comes from either making them tougher (such as an armoured cockpit) or getting more of them to weather the storm. So it sounds like it might be worth it for you, if you can spare the points. It'd help give us a clearer idea if you put your list up to peruse :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I definitely feel that on a Vulture or Vendetta they're worth taking, especially if your list is built around Air Cavalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMasterAralia Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Thanks for the reply... hehe... you might be right.. it's just not easy to shave of the points in my 1k list because Elysian already are pretty expensive. Especially compared to AM: Elysian 73rd Recon: company HQ, powersword, tracking beacon, sniper rifle, medic, vox, long range ground scanner. - I could definately drop the sword and maaaaybe the beacon, because if the command is in need of assistanse, things are pretty grim allready ;) 2x drop sentinels with multi meltas- super cool, but only bs3, so having two almost guarantees a hit. 4x 10 vets, all with vox, 3x spec weapons (plas, melta, flamers, snipers). The snipers have infiltrate and a tracking beacon, the other three squads drop in - I think I can drop the infiltrate/beacon on the snipers, because it's kinda counterproductive to have the ablitily to call in drop troops with relative short range weapons, but wanting to stay at long range with the snipers... vulture gunship with punisher cannons tauros venator with twinlinked lascannon. - this could probably get downgraded to a twinlinked multi laser, but the las is only the cost of a plasma pistol, and I really like the long range anti tank. this is 1000pts on the dot. to compare my opponenet had: command with master of ordinans in a chimera all in carapace, 4x snipers. 2x missile vets with 3x snipers all in carapace 2x vets with 3xgrenadelaunchers/3xflamers all in carapace in chimeras 2x hellhounds and 1x hydra. the game was the emperors will, so he just parked all his tanks on his objective and let me drop in. Pretty much uphill from the get go, but the lucky multimelta sentinels got me the single point I needed to pull a narrow victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 The power weapon is ripe for points saving, along with the sniper beacon looks like :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 How do your Snipers get Infiltrate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMasterAralia Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 How do your Snipers get Infiltrate? Forward observers doctrine. 2xplasmapistols for infiltrate and a tracking beacon on the sergeant.. The Elysian list still pays out the nose for veteran doctrines :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Do Elysians get that Doctrine? My Forward Sentries just gives Snare Traps and Camo Cloaks IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMasterAralia Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yup. Foward observers. Grenadier (carapace), demolition (melta bombs for The whole squad and one breacher charge). Forward observers should have been camp cloaks, infiltrate and beacon for both Elysians and AM.. Would've loooved that ;) And I'll try to move some points around so I can afford the armoured cockpit. Thanks for the advice guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Drop the power sword and you'll have 75% of it. If your Commander is in CC against 3+ Saves, he's dead anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I am a bit bummed that forward sentries can't actually deploy forward. golly gee!!?! Infiltrating with camo cloaks and snare mines fits the description perfectly. Deploying in the same trenchline as everyone else with camo cloaks and snare mines makes them nothing at all like forward sentries...I still take that doctrine...forward sentries deployed in a ruin are AWESOME...I had two full squadrons of warwalkers hose down one of my squads...48 shots...43 hits (I know, right?), 36 wounds, went to ground (autocannon was gonna be the first casualty anyway, they outflanked me!), 4 failed saves, passed leadership, Booyah! 400 points fails to deal with 80 points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PureFodder Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 More importantly, your opponent was using the Hydra wrong. It doesn't have interceptor so it can't shoot stuff coming on from reserves, and from your army list, the only thing it can fire at using full BS is the vulture so it shouldn't be having much of an impact on anything else. Armoured cockpit is effective only if you aren't going to jink. If you jink, you're snap-firing anyway and you have extra armour, so it doesn't make much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMasterAralia Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 More importantly, your opponent was using the Hydra wrong. It doesn't have interceptor so it can't shoot stuff coming on from reserves, and from your army list, the only thing it can fire at using full BS is the vulture so it shouldn't be having much of an impact on anything else. Armoured cockpit is effective only if you aren't going to jink. If you jink, you're snap-firing anyway and you have extra armour, so it doesn't make much difference. Oh no intercept you say. Oh well that would have changed the outcome quite a bit! I'll have to remember that next time we play. Exactly why I was contemplating the armoured cockpit. If I'm gonna jink, I'll snapfire, If I won't jink I have 1/2 chance of snapfiring anyway, unless I upgrade the cockpit, in which case I have 1/2 chance of firing normally... I like it, I'll try it next time :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Welll.....if he was playing a pure forgeworld list, I think interceptor is still in those rules? Or is it jink-ignoring that FW rules have? I can't remember...but the main thing is if he was using Codex: Astra Militarum at all, no interceptor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMasterAralia Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Welll.....if he was playing a pure forgeworld list, I think interceptor is still in those rules? Or is it jink-ignoring that FW rules have? I can't remember...but the main thing is if he was using Codex: Astra Militarum at all, no interceptor! He was using pure Astra Militarum. That big bad cheater cheater! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Or misinformed - no cleansing him in holy promethium unless you can be sure :P Well, aside from the traitor bit :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandMasterAralia Posted September 1, 2014 Author Share Posted September 1, 2014 Hehe.. He's a friend og mine so I already told him about it.. His defense was that he didn't have a hydra tank, so he had used the quadgun turret mounted in an open topped chimera and we both just assumed that they both shared the same rules. Oh well this calls for a rematch! Load supplies, system-check grav-chutes, board valkyries- let's fly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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