Describe Ferrus Manus

[Finney]

How to you view Ferrus Manus and his personality?

 

I was reading the thread about Ferrus's eyes and general portrayal complaints (most of which I agree with), and thought this would be an interesting discussion topic. I really like hearing other people's perspectives on the characters in the 40k lore, because we all interpret it a little differently. So, what do you imagine Ferrus to be like? Does your army view him the same way?

 

For sake of generating interest, here's a bit of my opinion:

 

We know that so many of the Primarchs harbored secret fears and doubts, and I think Ferrus was actually very similar to Fulgrim in this sense, plagued by a fear of inadequacy, and a growing obsession with bettering himself. Obviously different personalities meant different approaches: Fulgrim needing to be good at everything by doing everything, Ferrus needing to be the best by stripping away anything that would weaken him, but both fueled by a sense of being an "innate" failure. (It's a pretty common psychological trait in perfectionists, ofc.) I view him not as hating things that were "frivolous", and maybe even really liking art and such, but chose to reject them anyway due to their lack of practicality - and Emperor forbid if we make a slip.

 

This would be why he and Fulgrim got along so well, of course, and why he got along well with someone who, on the surface, he should dislike. Fulgrim regularly showed him the practical value and application of things Ferrus dismissed, which I think writers have shown (more or less). Why wear fancy-pants armor? Because troops need pride and inspiration. For example.

 

I liked the Nemurial Scrolls concept (though I too despise the overused "hoist by own bionic pertard" trope) because it was similar to my own view, and also that it showed he wasn't as cold and harsh as he carried himself and was genuinely concerned for his Legion and his brothers. One could argue that they sort of....approached this idea in Feat of Iron, I also like the idea they've touched on with a lot of the Primarchs, that each was hiding some Problem in themselves and their Legion but was putting it off instead of dealing with it.

 

As for the Iron Hands himself, I always got the impression that, beyond strict adherence to his rules, Ferrus let them play whatever stupid squabble games they wanted to do and stayed out of it, because he felt the struggle made them stronger in the end - they weeded themselves out. And that this was general Medusan culture - that they survived harsh conditions by being dogged (and relying on their own technological creations). What I mean is, Ferrus figured that B.S. had a way of weeding itself out if one stayed focused.

 

But, of course, this wasn't happening, and new problems started presenting themselves in the legion prior the Heresy, which surely he knew about, whether or not he blamed the "reliance on technology" or rejection of humanity or whatever. I'd actually presume he would more likely have blamed himself: failure to lead, being to soft, something he was at fault for. Like his metal arms that were something out of his control, he would blame himself for outside problems. Maybe for not being able to control everything?

 

I also imagine him to actually be a really funny guy, in a Laconic way, which they give snippets of in some stories but I don't think they show enough. He was the Sparta to Fulgrim's Attic salt, of course. (I also don't think he was so darn mad all the time, just a grump who was quick to point out malarkey.) I liked that Iron Hands character that made dry jokes in machine voice, and people weren't sure he was joking. (I forget what his name was.)

 

(For the Tabletop, though, I like my armies obsessive and hypocritical, because I think it's funny, but that wouldn't have been true in the year 30K.)

 

I didn't mean to write an essay, sorry. Share your thoughts! (New to the forum but not in the game, so, hello!)

[Machine God]

Ferrus Manus, well he's just this guy you know!

[BassWave]

You bring some interesting points. Although I can't bring myself to like those stupid scrolls. Let me explain.

 

I always viewed the Iron Hands as very practical fighters. They would mercilessly exploit any weakness the enemy has and use their own strengths to their fullest potential. Therefore, anytime I read "These are not my hands..." I get pissed off because he earned those hands. He drowned a mechanical monster in lava with his bare hands in order to get them for Emperor's sake! Stop whining and use those hands to their fullest potential! Did Odin from Norse mythology cry like a baby because the knowledge he gained when he sacrificed his eye wasn't knowledge he was born with? NO! Does Thor have intimate moments of contemplation over whether he should rely so heavily on his hammer? Of course not!

 

Demi gods shouldn't have confidence issues. It's not inspiring, and its not interesting. Writers, stop doing this. Especially with Ferrus.

 

Another thing that bothers me is that he is often portrayed as "Me Ferrus, me smash!" He has invented an inordinate amount of weapons and equipment and crafted many of them with his hands (yes Ferrus, those are yours). He is definitely in the top 5 smartest primarchs. Why then is he portrayed as a cave man with a stick in his butt?

[CyderPirate]

The Odin comparison doesn't ring true, though. Ferrus did not gain those hands by design, but by accident. Odin was searching for knowledge and willingly made sacrifices to that end.

 

The way I see it, Ferrus is a man of passion and contemplation. He's driven by passion but sometimes makes terrible misjudgements, and reflection on those errors drives a certain self-loathing and compulsion for perfection. He's ruthless in his treatment of those that fail him, in the same way that he never forgives himself for his own errors. He's calculating and efficient, but his emotions occasionally cloud his judgement. I kind of like the 'These are not my hands' because it gives him a level of complexity that few of the other Primarchs have. It represents a moment of contemplation, when Ferrus  at one of his lowest ebbs, blames his success on things outside his control. He's reluctant to accept glory, but more than willing to claim the burden of responsibility for the mistakes of others. He's proud, but uncertain. Surrounded by demi-gods whose achievements and self-assurance dwarfs his own, he casts doubt on his own successes.

 

In Fulgrim he found a kindred spirit in the quest for perfection and the two are reflections of each other. Both are filled with self-doubt and are determined to overcome their perceived failings, although they deal with it in different ways. Fulgrim gets petty and jealous, whilst Ferrus is more likely to be shamed and frustrated.  I think one of the reasons he reacted so rashly to Fulgrim's attempt to turn him is the fact that he and his brother were so alike that he sees in brother his own path to damnation. In fact, I think he even blames himself for Fulgrim's betrayal and is looking as much for atonement as retribution in leading the legion to Istvaan.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Ferrus Manus 

 

50% Fe + 50% living tissue =100% stubborn, lets face it if your hands were made of metal you would be pretty grumpy to if you tried to crack one off! 

[BassWave]

Ferrus was seeking to destroy Arsinoth and sacrificed his arms while doing it. He was rewarded in a way as he recieved much cooler hands. While its not a perfect comparison to Odin, its applicable. The point was that something was earned through sacrifice. That should've been the lesson learned from his battle with the great silver wyrm.

 

 

And how is he surrounded by Demi gods whose achievements dwarf his own?? The average primarch has conquered at least one planet, Ferrus among them. Quite a few primarchs have overcome serious problems their planet has faced such as dealing with eldar raiders, overcoming tyrants, or in Ferrus' case, destroying Arsinoth and teaching the people of Medusa the ways of technology to help them survive. Ferrus also contributed greatly to the Great Crusade by coming up with weapons and equipment such as the Sicaran, and various marks of terminator armor. Not to mention that he mentored primarchs that were found later in how to wage crusades.

 

As far as deeds go, he has done ALOT, and to put himself down like that shows that he has the confidence of a preteen. That doesn't make any sense for a person who is so logic driven!

 

I would have preferred a characterization of Ferrus that shows that he is willing to sacrifice himself for the sake of the goal. He's the ultimate team player because he accepts his position and becomes as efficient as he can at it. It also connects perfectly with the cog motif his legion has. There's already evidence of this as he totally accepted the fact that Horus became war master while others complained that they should've gotten the role.

 

If you wanted to make him introspective. Have him contemplate over whether he's doing enough for the Imperium. Have him worry that his legionnaires are starting to become more interested in personal glory than playing as a team. Have him debate over whether he should follow pertuabo's example in killing off a good portion of his legion to promote teamwork.

[jokaero weaponsmith]

The problem we have with Ferrus is that in almost all the accounts we have are of him are of as a 2 dimensional contrast character never from his perspective except the one story of his dealings with a xeno .

I would like to think that at Isstavan 5 when he saw that first reinforcement drop pod streak though the heavens that he knew he was betrayed and tried to make the best of a bad situation.

After all what did the other two legions achieve by withdrawing to the landing site ?

At least Ferrus went toe to toe with a daemon pocessed Primarch after wading through rank after rank of entrenched traitors .

[Candleshoes]

I can't write a lot due to being on a iPad at the moment, but this whole topic is a great discussion, and as an aside, am in the process of writing an article in Ferrus, and why he is one of the most misunderstood primarchs.

 

Though I will save the meat and specifics for the article, I will drop this, as it is mentioned that Ferrus' greatest fear was never inadequacy, for even Horus and Guilliman admit Ferrus knew war like no other, but the fear that when the crusade ends, he knows he has no practical second use in peace. His nature is his limitation, but there is a sense that he shoulders this fear and accepts that he cannot change his character. He accepts that he is a weapon, and he is not ignorant that a weapon has little use in peace, a comparison he himself makes when looking at his brother Vulkan.

Edited September 2, 2014 by Candleshoes

[BassWave]

@candleshoes- I disagree that Ferrus has no purpose after the crusade. In fact I disagree with the whole idea that once the galaxy was conquered, there is no need for armed forces.

 

On the first point, Ferrus was an inventor and he also understood how to make organizations self sufficient should the need arise. The iron hand clans were incredibly efficient even after Ferrus' death. Being able to create efficient organizations would be needed in order to control a whole galaxy. I'm sure Gulliman would have really appreciated Ferrus's help reorganizing the imperium after the Emperor took a nap.

[Candleshoes]

@candleshoes- I disagree that Ferrus has no purpose after the crusade. In fact I disagree with the whole idea that once the galaxy was conquered, there is no need for armed forces.

 

On the first point, Ferrus was an inventor and he also understood how to make organizations self sufficient should the need arise. The iron hand clans were incredibly efficient even after Ferrus' death. Being able to create efficient organizations would be needed in order to control a whole galaxy. I'm sure Gulliman would have really appreciated Ferrus's help reorganizing the imperium after the Emperor took a nap.

 

As I said, a wonderful and colourful topic.

 

Ferrus was a creator, but as Lorgar in the First Heretic, and Vulkan in Feat of Iron both state, he creates only within a trio, it must have function, it must have purpose, and it must destroy.

 

In Feat of Iron, it states very clearly that Ferrus has come to terms with the inevitability of his own mortality, and that is before the Heresy begins. The only other Primarchs in printed material who have also done this by this time are Konrad Kurze, and Angron. He knows he will die, and says that as a warrior, he will meet his end at the edge of a blade - in the purpose that the Emperor created him.

 

"But without war he wondered what would then become of his purpose and function?" - Feat of Iron

 

"I am the equal of my brothers... And the better of some. Always it came down to this singular truth, ever since he had split the darkness upon a trail of fire." - Feat of Iron

 

This is from Book 2 from the HH - it also shows this singular mentality that Ferrus has accepted.

 

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p113/Darkbeastman/870665ce-2831-4c3d-91fb-4f0d7163bc80_zps5780d58d.png

[BassWave]

Touché Candleshoes. So maybe Ferrus didn't have/want a peace time role. However, can there truly be peace when humans are in the equation? Who was going to discipline unruly systems? Who was going to absolutely crush rebellions? What happens when you need to defend your galactic empire from an extra galactic enemy, such as Tyranids? Unless the Emperor was going to phase out Astartes for a new gene warrior program, he was still going to need the legions. At least the ones who were easiest to control.

 

I'm also very skeptical of the idea that the Emperor was going to stop with just one galaxy. Would a being that powerful and ambitous stop with just one galaxy? This is conjecture but I think the great crusade was a test run, to see how to most efficiently conquer a galaxy. Gaining control of the web way was the final step as it would allow forces to travel larger distances more efficiently, consequently establishing greater control over imperial space.

 

However, I must admit that the Emperor probably was planning to replace the primarchs after seeing how many problems they caused in the Great Crusade alone. He already had to get rid of two, Angron ruined his legion by turning them into maniacs, Lorgar and Magnus didn't even heed his warnings, and the list goes on.

 

If Ferrus needed to seriously contemplate a topic, it's the fact that he will eventually be replaced no matter how well he performed. He of all people would understand that prototypes are meant to be replaced with something better...

[CyderPirate]

Some really good stuff here, guys.

 

Its kind of a moot point, but I feel its worth going back to the Odin thing briefly. Odin sought out knowledge and willingly sacrificed his eye in exchange, whereas with Ferrus his iron hands were an accidental by-product of his fight with Arsinoth. He sought out to destroy the serpent, and ended up with his augmented flesh:  whether or not he would do so again, knowing the outcome is another matter.

 

I didn't mean to say he had achieved less than his brothers, but that he thought that he was considered less in their eyes, that his brothers were more highly thought-of. I didn't convey that very well, but I'm beginning to think I was wrong anyway. I think I've mistaken a level of modesty regarding his accomplishments as self-doubt.

[BassWave]

I think this is the first time since the supplement dropped that I have had so much enjoyment in a thread under the Iron Hands forum. Thanks Finney :tu:

I'll concede the point that the Odin comparison wasn't perfect. As for the whole achievment thing, you are right that Ferrus doesn't get the credit he deserves.Honestly he should be considered the first saint. He was the first one to refuse Chaos' offer. How are there not statues in every Ecclesiarchal church as an example of sacrificing oneself for your beliefs? Instead, he gets hated on by his own chapter as a hothead

[Iron Father Ferrum]

How are there not statues in every Ecclesiarchal church as an example of sacrificing oneself for your beliefs?

 

Because his children disdain the Ecclesiarchy and its trappings for veneration of the mechanical.

[Candleshoes]

Would the Odin parallel make more sense for Magnus, the Crimson King - he willingly sacrificed his eye to Tzeentch at the begining of the Crusade, in order to aquire the knowledge of how to prevent the flesh-change in his sons, which at the time, was threatening their extinction?

 

Ferrus' exhange seems more of a conqueror, throwing down the last pillar of a defying world.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Candleshoes

[CyderPirate]

@ Basswave - That's a damn good point! It never occurred to me that Ferrus was the first of the Primarchs to deny the temptation of Chaos. 

 

@Candleshoes - Yeah, I think Magnus's story is fairly heavily inspired- by Norse mythology. He even has a Scandinavian name!

[Candleshoes]

Anyone given thought to the idea that Ferrus was in for a rude awakening when he was taken into the Emperor's fold?

 

There's speculation that after becoming the best and the greatest in all things on Medusa, triumphing in challenges both physical, political, mental and potentially corrupting, he was not prepared to be "just" one of 20 demi-godlike beings. I speculate he almost resented the knowledge, that being removed from planetary ignorance, to see the vastness of the Emperor's domain, he realised he wasn't as strong as he thought he was.

 

One could say that he had a real sense of ... not entitlement as that implies a negativity... but a sense that he looked at the position of first among equals with a gaze to obtain it, in the only way he knew how. Strength and conquest. This motivation was powerful, because it is done with resolution absolute. He is also one of the Primarchs who casts judgment and voices it of his brothers, testing them and calling them out on their weakness. His conversations with Lorgar or Vulkan cast a light on how hard his gaze really is, and how deep his understanding of how things actually are, not as how others would have you believe. He is the strength and the resolve that both Horus for the Traitors, and Guilliman for the Loyalists sought for... and more importantly... most mourned. His death was the death of a swift victory for either side - and both admit this to people who have long written Ferrus off. 

 

I posted this guy in another thread, but it fits with this too, it's from Vengeful Spirit: 

 

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p113/Darkbeastman/ferrus_zps8913f179.jpg

 

Ferrus is not underestimated by even the best of all primarchs, and he is one of the known primarchs who had a recorded reaction to Horus being named Warmaster.

 

I think a good topic, and one that NO ONE ever seems to bring up, is, of all the Primarchs, how is it that Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim are the best and truest of friends?

[BassWave]

 

 

How are there not statues in every Ecclesiarchal church as an example of sacrificing oneself for your beliefs?

Because his children disdain the Ecclesiarchy and its trappings for veneration of the mechanical.

One doesn't judge a Father by his sons. Otherwise no one would worship the Emperor.

 

@Candleshoes- Interesting! I guess all the primarchs went through an awakening in one way or another. Especially when the Emperor shows up and demonstrates why he's big daddy.While it must have shocked him initially, I don't think he would resent being one of twenty. He understands that only by competition does one become stronger. That's why he didn't unite the Medusan clans, so that they become strong through competition. You mention that Ferrus even criticized his brothers. It's so that they can learn to get better. It's probably why the Emperor had him mentor recently found primarchs.

 

As for his relationship with Fulgrim, I believe it makes sense. They both strive for perfection, and they understand that sacrifices need to be made to achieve it. As far as art goes, it's said you can tell a lot about an artist through their art. So when they had compared each other's craftsmanship of their weapons, they immediately saw and understood each other. This would explain why they became close friends on the spot after their little competition. The difference between Ferrus and Fulgrim is that Fulgrim believed perfection was attainable. Unfortunately that isn't the case and led to his downfall.

[Anvilarium]

I think that Ferrus was similar to Perturabo, in that they were both masters of warfare in all it's forms, and they were quite harsh in the way they treated the warriors under them.

 

However whilst Perturabo was unhappy with his role as a master of siege/trench warfare and dreamt of a time when he could be a simple architect/artist, Ferrus seemed perfectly content with his role as a master of warfare. He knew what his role/position within the Imperium was, and got on with it.

[BassWave]

Ferrus embracing his role falls under his greater understanding of war, as Horus puts it. Makes me wish there were examples of battles in the crusade that reflected this :(

[captain Angel]

If I may toss my opinion into the ring, I think that Ferrus having doubts about his hands plays perfectly into his character. I also feel the same way about myself when i need help. To someone who feels that asking for aid is a sign of weakness, how great can someone be when they cannot rely on their own flesh? How much can you trust yourself when the greatest and most powerful part of you is alien and foreign? I hate asking for help, as i feel that doing so makes me weak and foolish. If i cannot do it myself, I do not deserve to be able to do it. I think that this is the same way Ferrus feels, how can I trust myself to succeed if I cannot trust in my own hands?