Chain weapon gore?

[Forté]

This is something which to me I've never seen it done right (sorry). It's always looked more like it's been caused by a weapon with no moving parts, like a sword.

 

I firmly place the blame for this view on my wife and her forensics talk about blood spatter causes.

 

Now, to look at a chainsaw in use, it rips and tears. Spraying sawdust mostly from the bottom end of its cutting edge before the chain bends like so:

http://www.clarkforest.com/media/uploads/cat-421/chainsaw-equipment-header.jpg

 

This to me gets me thinking that with a normal Chainsword, most of the spatter would spray the users lower half on a more downward strike and mostly miss on crossing blows. There would be some stray drops but majority would spray others nearby.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Tiberius Cato]

That's a good point, with a downward slash the legs would most definitely be hit with the bulk of the gore. Such a strike may get the lower portion of the chest but not very much.

[Forté]

That's what I'm now thinking too.

[Tiberius Cato]

Assuming the crossward strike was one handed, and which direction it was going, the opposite arm would likely get covered and the chest would possibly recieve a healthy helping of blood based paint - assuming the cross slash was from outside to inside. Done the other way, the sword arm may get gore towards the elbow and upper arm as the wrist would be bent a bit.

 

Edit: Purge the duplication of my post.

[Forté]

Even then, a weapon is rarely completely straight with the arm unless it's a thrust. And the impact would cause the weapon angle to change a little too.

 

I'm thinking way too much aren't I.

[Tiberius Cato]

Valid point. With that, I think atmost an outward slash would like get minor splatter on the shouldpad as it protudes a fair bit more than the arm.

 

You can never overthink when it comes to realism, physics is a wonderful thing my friend!

[Astartes-ULTRA]

Im glad someone finally brought this point firmly to light, I myself was thinking about more realistic effects a short while ago (ie. the weight of a power/terminator armoured dude would have on the terrain he was walking on, etc) and this is something I in my many years of modelling have never thought of.

I tip my hat to you sir.

[Tiberius Cato]

It is a good thought, I'm glad this popped up before I went crazy with my new Blood for the Blood God pot. I was going to dip an old toothbrush is and splatter to my twin hearts' content.

[Astartes-ULTRA]

haha that's a good way of doing it. That and possibly using a blow-pen type method. 

[Tiberius Cato]

The lack of control on where it goes bothers me a bit, I'll have to figure out what to use to cover areas that won't get splatter.

[White Wolf]

Hi Guys,

I know quite a lot about this based on my personal experience (I work as an HSE Construction inspector in the UK - for our American readers that is the equivalent of a OSHA inspector) and I recently investigated a chainsaw accident where careless use of a chainsaw by an untrained person led to an avulsion of the injured person's (IP) right hand (an avulsion is an "almost amputation" where the limb is hanging literally by a thread of skin and muscle).

There was no gore or blood on the chainsaw - I know this because I picked it up and put it in an evidence bag after photographing it and the scene - there wasn't even much blood at the impact point - drips not "spatters" - there was a lot of blood in bindings used on the wound and the immediate area of where the IP sat following the incident. There wasn't even much blood on the glove the IP was wearing at the time - it was just shredded beyond belief.

I would suggest that there is very little "spatter" in the real world - however I would also suggest that the first rule of Warhammer applies (the rule of cool....) and that you could include gore and spatter effects as you see fit on your own models - especially the XIIth Legion - if you are trying for a "real world" look there is very little in reality.

Hope this helps shed some light

All the best WW

[knife&fork]

I'd like to point out that most 40k chain weapons are not portrayed in the fluff to work exactly like present day sawing tools.

 

Many versions are described as having several sets of teeth moving in multiple directions at once. Probably to counter the bite and kickback the user would experience if trying to force a normal chainsaw through anything but soft tissue or using it as a striking weapon?  

Look closely at the chainsword in the assault marine box as an example. It actually has three sets of teeth. 

 

The chainfist on the other hand is described as having a disrupting field that allows the teeth to cut through tough materials, very much like a real world chainsaw.  

 

A lot of the above is either speculation on my part or portrayed inconsistently by GW in the fluff and on the models. but a chain weapon isn't exactly like a real life chain saw. 

[Lucien Eilam]

The wrist is just about the boniest part of the body though. I imagine carving somebody's torso open would be a lot messier, especially if you had a bunch of redundant organs to hit before you could be sure they'd stay down.

 

Definitely err on the side of caution though. A little goes a long way.

[knife&fork]

For anyone interested in making a good gore effect I cannot recommend tamiya clear red enough. 

 

It's thick, syrupy, alcohol based and a little too bright red straight out of the pot. Mix it with a little bit of any acrylic black or purple though and you've got a really neat and glistening gore color. Add more black and it looks very much like dried blood. 

 

Much better than 'blood for the blood god' if you can get hold of a pot. 

[Forté]

Im glad someone finally brought this point firmly to light, I myself was thinking about more realistic effects a short while ago (ie. the weight of a power/terminator armoured dude would have on the terrain he was walking on, etc) and this is something I in my many years of modelling have never thought of.

 

I tip my hat to you sir.

I've thought about the weight issue too. And no amount of rubber on the soles will stop the ground breaking under the weight of a running marine.

[Forté]

Nice post there too White Wolf. Sorry you had to see all that. Sticks with you. I've seen an old friend have a accident with the glass in a security door. Mad a mess of his forearms. Main reason I know Blood for the Blood God is the wrong colour.

 

And good points too knife&fork. Especially thinking about the rows going in opposite directions.

[Lucien Eilam]

The other thing about chainsaws is that when you stop cutting, they stop showering sawdust everywhere. Blood is less predictable.

[Ovidius Incertus]

A chainsword is rarely used as a sole weapon.  Given the nature of Astartes close combat, I doubt the only gore they'd be splattered with comes from injuries inflicted by the chainsword.  Close range bolt pistol shots, using the bolt pistol as a club, fists, kicks, knees, headbutts, etc.  I see no problem with being liberal in the application of gore (well, to the point that it obscures the model), because Astartes are nothing but liberal in the application of violence.   When you can put your fist through a human's chest with moderate effort, you're going to get messy all over.  Not to mention the fact that, when they're in combat, they're usually not alone, so undoubtedly one Marine would be splattered in the blood 'n guts from a wound inflicted by one of his fellows.

 

As an aside, I personally like to take chunks of pink pencil eraser (made by actually erasing on blank paper) and add that to the mix on my chain blades, covered over again by Tamiya Clear Red, to up the effect.

[Forté]

Like the idea of the rubber chunks. Maybe mix some white bits in too.

[deathspectersgt7]

add some black and purple to Bftbg comes close tamiya is not that close if you want real. Or make a small cut on you thumb and go from there.

[White Wolf]

Thanks Forte, not the worst I've seen by any means, goes with the job.

 

All good points made above, especially in regards to multiple sets of teeth, in my own personal 30k/40k universe less is more, I tend to go for a lot of dust weathering rather than gore.

 

ATB WW

[knife&fork]

Slap gore on everything and it just looks silly. It's best saved for a diorama or single models.

 

It fits on my blood talon dreadnought, makes him look rather imposing. (also makes him even more of a fire magnet, but don't tell that trick to my opponents! :p )  

[Kaedes Nex]

I don't think this was mentioned yet, but chainswords have a reverse function, just in case the "under spray" isn't as noticeable or impressive as traditional blood splatter above the blade. I'm pretty much banking on this because my chainswords are all in the left hand, and the way I imagine them swinging would leave practically zero blood splatter on their armor as the blood would be spraying to the side and away from the swinging marine.

 

This is pretty relevant to my interests because I've got some models that need blood splatter on their chainswords and I'm terrible at physics.

[zebbie]

Someone should send this stuff into mythbusters... see what they come up with:)

[Retributis]

The result would be "Chainsaw swords are massively impractical and don't work" I reckon :P

 

Also, if you want to model your marines with gore, but don't think it works because of the direction of spray, just image them all standing in a line spraying the marine next to them :D