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Battlereport: GK vs Eldar - 2000 Points...what a mess :(


Eisenhardt

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Hey all,

I just want to give you a battle report from my yesterday’s game versus Eldar. It was my first game with the new GK and I was very optimistic to have a good chance versus this "Über"-Eldar...but in the end, it was the biggest loss I faced for long time.

But let´s start first with our army lists...as I am German I don’t know all of the English unit types, but I hope, that you will recognize, what I want to say.

My list was:

- GM with the relic armor

- 2 Nemesis Dreadknights with Nemesis Sword, Psi-Cannon and Flamer

- 10 Terminators with 2 Psi-Cannon

- 6 Paladins with Apothecarius, Nemesis-Hammers and Psi-Cannon

- 10 Interceptors with Halberds and 2 Incenirators

- 5 Strike Squad with Psi-Cannon

- Aegis Defense line with Comm Relay

Total ~ 2000 Points

His list was something like this:

- Autarch

- 2 Guard troops

- 1 Night spinner

- 3 Warwalkers

- 1 Crimson Hunter

-1 Wraithfighter

- 3 Serpents with 2 wraithguards and one other squad, but I cannot remember which it was, because it did not take part in the fights

Total ~ 2000 Points

We played one of the new missions and each of us had 3 mission goals each turn. We placed the 6 mission markers so that each of us had 2 and the remaining two were placed in the middle of the table. My opponent put his army first on the table, as you can see on the pictures: the three serpents, the 2 guard troops and the night spinner were hiding behind cover. I placed my Aegis defence line with the comm relay and put the strike squad behind. In addition I put the Interceptors behind cover. They were equipped with the teleporter homer and should teleport 30” in turn 1 to have a save area to land for my other units when they come in in turn 1…this was my strategy, but it was it always: the best strategy does not last the first shot.

Regarding warlord traits, I did not manage to get something useful for my NDK. My GM got the Psi discipline where I can reroll everything to hit (don’t know the English wording). In addition I rolled the 4++ save and another not useful one.

IMG 20140906 214936

IMG 20140906 213603

TURN 1:

Eldar:

I tried to steal the ini but failed so Eldar had the first turn.

Movement:

Only the Serpent on my left side moved forward, all other units stayed and hide in cover.

Psi-Phase:

Yes, it is Eldar…but they did nothing so we went on with shooting.

Shooting:

So this is, where the horror began…the Night Spinner made indirect fire on the Interceptors and killed 3 of them. The Serpent on the left managed to kill another one, so 25% loss in shooting phase...(may be you already know what happened…). The two other Serpents killed one Strike GK so I did the morale check first for “Pinning” (I am not sure if this is the correct wording). But passed it…then the morale check for retreat…and of course I failed it! Then retreat distance…11”! My full Interceptor Squad vanished from the table.

Victory Points:

Eldar: 1 for first blood and additional 2 for holding mission goals!

GK:

Movement:

Ok, this was bad start...but censored.gif happens, so I did the reserve rolls for all my units. Surprisingly I passed all (only one I had to roll again, thanks’ comm relay) what was even more surprising, all units did not scatter far. So as you can see on the pictures, 2 NDK land in front of the serpents together with the GM/Paladin unit. The Terminator unit landed on the other side of the ruin.

PSI Phase:

I did Sanctuary for the NDK, passed only one and in addition I had a double 6. So the NDK lost one wound due to “attacks from warp”. The GM passed the test and he and his unit could reroll all “to hit” rolls.

Shooting:

Did I say that I hate Serpents? Of course the Eldar hided their Serpents “Ass” at the table edge to that I could only shoot on the front/side armor. Each NDK attacked one Serpent, they did “Jink save” and I could only do one Hull point loss. The GM/Paladins kill 7 Eldar Guards (not more, because out of sight). The Terminators killed the complete Guard unit on the other side…this should be my most successful shooting phase…

Victory points:

GK: none, because I had silly mission objectives.

IMG 20140906 221231

IMG 20140906 223438

TURN 2:

VP: Eldar 3-0 GK

Eldar:

Movement:

These scary little Serpents moved as far away as possible from my NDK. The night spinner moved in front of the big ruin. The two flyers (Crimson Hunter and Wraithfighter) came from reserve on the table; entering from the left. Furthermore the 3 warwalkers entered from the left side.

PSI:

The wraithfighter tried to “cast” something on my terminators, but I banned it.

Shooting:

The Serpents are “boosting” further away…scary Eldar…The remaining 3 Eldar Guards shoot on the NDK and nothing happened. Similar to the Wraithfighter, which attacked the Terminators without killing one. But then the Crimson Hunter shot for the first time…OMG…I was not aware of his power. 4 Terminators died! But this was not all…the Warwalkers (they are so ugly, but the fire power is amazing) killed 5 additional Terminators…wooohooo, how nice for me. The night spinner managed to kill another Strike Squad GK. I passed the morale check for the remaining terminator.

Victory Points:

Eldar: none.

IMG 20140906 224113

GK:

Movement:

Ok, this did not went good for me so far, but it was only the beginning…I got a new mission objective (hold 3 mission goals and get D3 victory points) so I moved 1 NDK towards the night spinner. I moved it directly (1” away) to it and placed the NDK on difficult terrain because I could hold the mission goal on the inside of the ruin by doing this. The other NDK jumped behind cover (and behind the 3 little Eldar guards). The GM/Paladins moved right to follow the serpents. The lonely Terminator moved towards the night spinner.

PSI:

GM passed his test and it was not banned (reroll to hit). Furthermore Paladins passed “Hammerhand”.

Shooting:

The NDK could only do one Hull point loss to the Night spinner…but who cares, in close combat he will rip him apart…this was what I thought. The GM/Paladins managed to do one HP loss to the Serpent and the NDK made a heroic shooting attack to the Eldar Guards and killed all 3…amazing! tongue.png

Close Combat:

Ok…this was one of the most upsetting moments since I play Warhammer 40k (and this is since 10 years). As I described above, the NDK was staying on difficult terrain, so according 7th edition I had to reduce the attack range with 2”…this means, only in case I rolled “1”+”1”, I could not attack the night spinner, although I was staying 1” in front of him…and of course, this was what happened!!! I took me some moments to say something...and continue with the game. Luckily the GM/Paladins let the Serpent explode and the wraithguards where placed in front of them.

Victory points:

GK: wooohooo, 2 Victory points for holding three objectives!

IMG 20140906 231557

IMG 20140906 231551

TURN 3:

VP: Eldar 3-2 GK

Eldar:

Movement:

The flyers and warwalkers are moving towards my table edge. The lonely serpent on the left side is moving to the left mission goal.

PSI:

Nothing important

Shooting:

It is every time unbelievable how many AP2 shots the Eldar can provide. The warwalkers attacked the NDK and killed him! The night spinner could not kill the lonely Terminator. The Wraithguards could only kill one Paladin, the GM received 11 hits, but only 2 wounds…the only time in the game, where I had some luck. I passed the 2 wounds and nothing more happened.

Victory points:

Eldar: Again, 2 VP for Eldar because of holding two objectives.

GK:

Movement:

As the units became more less, the movement phase was quick. The remaining NDK moved towards the remaining Serpent on the right side.

PSI:

Again the GM passes the “reroll to hit” force.

Shooting:

The psi cannon from the strike squad (yes, it is the first they are doing anything) managed to take away one HP from the Wraithfighter. More surprisingly was the one GK with storm bolter also managed to remove one HP…one of moments, which made my mood better J

Close combat:

Ok, which of the GW game designers invented the rule that flamers can “overwatch”??? Of course the Wraithguard killed one Paladin when the GM/Paladins moved into close combat. But the remaining GK/Pladins kill all 6 wraithguards. The NDK wrecked the Serpent and moved towards the mission goal (epic picture of the NDK standing on top of the Serpent biggrin.png )

Victory points:

GK: wooohooo, another VP for the NDK holding the mission goal.

IMG 20140907 001131

TURN 4:

VP: Eldar 5-3 GK

Eldar:

Movement:

The night spinner immobilizes himself by starting from dangerous terrain. The flyers are moving towards the GM/Paladins

PSI:

Nothing important

Shooting:

Ok, once again, which GW game designer was responsible for the weapons of the wraithguards? This one could have been invented only after consuming drugs…the wraithguards attacked the remaining NDK, due to flamers it was 6 automatic hits…where 3 managed to wound and of course one with a “6” for instant death…and you can already imagine, that the NDK did not pass his save and died with full life points…did I mention, that this one was my warlord? The fliers killed also one paladin.

Victory points:

Eldar: 1 VP for killing my warlord and 1 for holding mission goal...

GK:

Ok, from this point on it does not make sense to split the report in sub-phases…it was clear, that I lost the game. The PSI cannon from the strike squad managed to put another HP loss on the night spinner. That was all.

Victory points:

GK: 0

TURN 5:

VP: Eldar 7-3 GK

Eldar:

We can make it quick and dirty…the warwalkers killed 2 paladins and the wraithguards the GM. The Fliers killed the remaining Strike Squad GK and that was it, all GK dead!

So what is the summary of the game?

  1. I do not think that a nemesis strike force is a good idea for playing against AP2 heavy shooting list. Of course, I am not the best player, but I do not see how a NSF can win against such Eldar lists. Any ideas from your side?
  2. People should stop the NDK are so “über” talking…they are good and balanced for the point cost, that’s all.
  3. The new mission design: Besides that I was completely defeated, regarding the VP I had also lost the game. It was very annoying that the Eldar player had every time only “hold objective X” cards, which were very simple to reach. My cards were much more difficult or not reachable (for example: destroy a building, but we played with buildings). So these cards can have a bad influence on your game, even if your army is competitive. In our gaming group we decided to play the “old” missions in the future.
  4. PSI Phase and GK: In total I had 8 WC. This is not enough for releasing all the special forces we have. When it comes to the turns where several close combats are waiting, it is hard to release our funny stuff like force weapons and hammerhand/sanctuary when you also want to release a bigger spell (like reroll to hit). I think at the GK troops should be divided into combat squads to gain more WC and have more aims for the enemy to shoot at.
  5. I wonder how to counter this Eldar heavy AP2 shooting with GK without using the NSF? Are Land Raiders and Storm Ravens the key? What do you think?

Thank you for reading so far!

Sorry for your loss.  I've lost to the Eldar more times than I care to remember.

 

 

 

People should stop the NDK are so “über” talking…they are good and balanced for the point cost, that’s all.

 

Just saying.  You rolled 2 1's for charge distance.  Lost a wound to Perils.  And without Personal Teleporters found yourself in range of Wraithcannons.

 

If you had the PTs and didn't DS the NDK, you might have been able to charge the Wave Serpents.

 

 

 

The new mission design:

 

Random missions suck.  And the quicker people realise that, the better.

 

Your opponent has a "Hold your objectives you're already holding, for free win points" Objective.

 

And you get "Kill the Daemon, when there's none on the board.  Or in your opponents Army List" Objective.

 

When the rules for winning a match aren't equivalent, only bad things can happen.

 

 

 

I wonder how to counter this Eldar heavy AP2 shooting with GK without using the NSF?

 

Stern attached to allied Hammernators?

 

The best things we've got are NDK with thier 4++.

 

That or rolling Invisibility.

 

And hoping your opponent doesn't want to troll you with a Culexes.

 

:(

Ok, once again, which GW game designer was responsible for the weapons of the wraithguards? This one could have been invented only after consuming drugs…the wraithguards attacked the remaining NDK, due to flamers it was 6 automatic hits…where 3 managed to wound and of course one with a “6” for instant death…and you can already imagine, that the NDK did not pass his save and died with full life points…did I mention, that this one was my warlord?

Just to let you know, this reads like you played it wrong (unfortunately not enough to help you though unsure.png ). D-Scythes (the flamer weapons Wraithguard can use) are only S4, and I believe distort has lost it's 'always wound on a 3+ rule', so he should have only been wounding your NDK on 6s (which admittedly would still be causing ID). So either he'd be doing multiple instant death wounds from several 6s, or be doing fewer wounds as only 6s wound the NDK.

Ok, once again, which GW game designer was responsible for the weapons of the wraithguards? This one could have been invented only after consuming drugs…the wraithguards attacked the remaining NDK, due to flamers it was 6 automatic hits…where 3 managed to wound and of course one with a “6” for instant death…and you can already imagine, that the NDK did not pass his save and died with full life points…did I mention, that this one was my warlord?

Just to let you know, this reads like you played it wrong (unfortunately not enough to help you though unsure.png ). D-Scythes (the flamer weapons Wraithguard can use) are only S4, and I believe distort has lost it's 'always wound on a 3+ rule', so he should have only been wounding your NDK on 6s (which admittedly would still be causing ID). So either he'd be doing multiple instant death wounds from several 6s, or be doing fewer wounds as only 6s wound the NDK.

Oh, thank you...seems that I have made a mistakes in my notes here. At this point I did not follow 100 % of his rolls, because I was already full of anger furious.gif

Ok, once again, which GW game designer was responsible for the weapons of the wraithguards? This one could have been invented only after consuming drugs…the wraithguards attacked the remaining NDK, due to flamers it was 6 automatic hits…where 3 managed to wound and of course one with a “6” for instant death…and you can already imagine, that the NDK did not pass his save and died with full life points…did I mention, that this one was my warlord?

Just to let you know, this reads like you played it wrong (unfortunately not enough to help you though unsure.png ). D-Scythes (the flamer weapons Wraithguard can use) are only S4, and I believe distort has lost it's 'always wound on a 3+ rule', so he should have only been wounding your NDK on 6s (which admittedly would still be causing ID). So either he'd be doing multiple instant death wounds from several 6s, or be doing fewer wounds as only 6s wound the NDK.

On the other hand, only losing one Paladin to overwatch from a unit of Scytheguard was pretty fortunate.

Sorry for your loss. I've lost to the Eldar more times than I care to remember.

People should stop the NDK are so “über” talking…they are good and balanced for the point cost, that’s all.

Just saying. You rolled 2 1's for charge distance. Lost a wound to Perils. And without Personal Teleporters found yourself in range of Wraithcannons.

If you had the PTs and didn't DS the NDK, you might have been able to charge the Wave Serpents.

The new mission design:

Random missions suck. And the quicker people realise that, the better.

Your opponent has a "Hold your objectives you're already holding, for free win points" Objective.

And you get "Kill the Daemon, when there's none on the board. Or in your opponents Army List" Objective.

When the rules for winning a match aren't equivalent, only bad things can happen.

I wonder how to counter this Eldar heavy AP2 shooting with GK without using the NSF?

Stern attached to allied Hammernators?

The best things we've got are NDK with thier 4++.

That or rolling Invisibility.

And hoping your opponent doesn't want to troll you with a Culexes.

sad.png

Thank you that you can feel with me...

Stern attaching to Hammernators might be a good idea...delivered with Storm Raven or Land Raider sounds point heavy but a good tool versus these censored.gif wraithguards!

Dreadknights aren't really a "win any fight" type unit, but they dominate what units they are specialized at engaging (which is like 90% of the field).  Instant death and AP2 (especially together), should be your priority to avoid.  With 12" movement and a 30" shunt, that shouldn't be a huge issue for the big guy.  Then you just have to avoid the rest of the AP2/Rending (read as Bladestorm) that Eldar can field.

 

His list looked good, but far from unbeatable.  Your list wasn't shabby, either, but a few choices there would probably lead to a lot tougher of a game (like the point cost for the paladins with no real way of delivering them around the table).

 

Personal Teleporters are almost auto-include on dreadknights, too.  They're only 30 points now and add so much to the big guys.

 

I would almost advise replacing the Grand Master with a Stern.  They're almost the same, Stern probably would have cost a little less, and given his squad access to Sanctuary.

 

As for a direct suggestion on how to handle wraithguard without being in close combat (as wall of death is probably not a cute sight with their template weapons)... this is where I would strongly advocate an ally (going into this point level of a game).  Armor 3 and better is annoying for Grey Knights at range, there simply isn't anything that gives you a consistent way to go through it (like missiles for example).  You're going to need a mass of psycannon action (2 in a squad of paladins, 3 if you bring a build-a-HQ with Psycannon) and rely on masses of wounds + rending to get through it... but there is still plenty of stuff out there to dabble in.  Centstars would probably delight in Wraithguard tears, and given that wraithguard are pretty pricey for a squad, it wouldn't be a bad thing to chase if you're into that kinda action.

 

Of course, this is also why I dabble in Adeptas Sororitas, too.  Outflanking Dominions, Exorcists, and Avengers add a lot to supplement GK forces, and cheapy troops with power armor in Rhinos gives GK armies a better solution than dropping 150-200 points per 5 man squad just to flop them on objectives on your side of the field.  I think a basic Battle Sister Squad with a rhino (no further upgrades) costs like 105 points.  With the Heavy Flamer and regular Flamer (to make people respect charging into them) it is about 120.  But, the point is, once you've exhausted your 2 dreadknight slots as a GK player, I think the lack-of-flexibility in that codex means you should strongly consider allies to shore up your vulnerabilities in higher point games (like wave serpents and 3+ armor that you don't want to have to assault in to).

 

Just a few suggestions, though.  I think your biggest opponent in that game was inexperience, though.  New codex vs a strong faction could skew the results a little.

Of course, this is also why I dabble in Adeptas Sororitas, too.  Outflanking Dominions, Exorcists, and Avengers add a lot to supplement GK forces, and cheapy troops with power armor in Rhinos gives GK armies a better solution than dropping 150-200 points per 5 man squad just to flop them on objectives on your side of the field.  I think a basic Battle Sister Squad with a rhino (no further upgrades) costs like 105 points.  With the Heavy Flamer and regular Flamer (to make people respect charging into them) it is about 120.  But, the point is, once you've exhausted your 2 dreadknight slots as a GK player, I think the lack-of-flexibility in that codex means you should strongly consider allies to shore up your vulnerabilities in higher point games (like wave serpents and 3+ armor that you don't want to have to assault in to).

 

Just a few suggestions, though.  I think your biggest opponent in that game was inexperience, though.  New codex vs a strong faction could skew the results a little.

 

Thank you for your advices...in general I would like to avoid adding other armies to the GK; in my opinion it should be possible to make a competitive build without allies. But adding Sororitas might be fun, as I already own some of them since many years but did not field them. I like the idea of Exorcists giving a "rain of missile death" to the enemy, but I fear that with my luck with rolling important dices they will only have one shot a turn.  I will spend some time thinking about adding Sororitas into a 2000 points list.

in my opinion it should be possible to make a competitive build without allies

 

GW are steadily dismantelling that.

 

Just look at the GK.  To field an army like we would be able to in 5th/6th edition, we need to use three (Plus, depending on the number of 'Sins you want) seperate detachments, from three seperate books.

 

And some people limit the detachments you can take to two only...

Thank you for your advices...in general I would like to avoid adding other armies to the GK; in my opinion it should be possible to make a competitive build without allies.

While I agree with this sentiment, unfortunately it appears GW don't anymore sad.png .

During end of 5th edition I strongly hoped that some day allies will be officially allowed, because my BT were nearly unplayable...this was the reason why I started also playing Blood Angels and Grey Knights, because I had no other chance to be competetive. The good old days...

But know it really seems that you are forced to add allies to have the possibility to beat the oponent...or you just play Eldar tongue.png

So yeah, the new Codex really cut down the flexibility of GK, but I will not give up now; I will further try to beat the Eldar with a pure GK list. But most likely this will not happen...or my opponent is totally drunk or something like that msn-wink.gif

- GM with the relic armor

- 2 Nemesis Dreadknights with Nemesis Sword, Psi-Cannon and Flamer

- 10 Terminators with 2 Psi-Cannon

 

See, up to here, I'm totally with you. Even the Terminators aren't too bad at 2k. No teleporters on the Dreadknights is a huge mistake though, as it showed in your game. 

 

- 6 Paladins with Apothecarius, Nemesis-Hammers and Psi-Cannon

 

 

This. This is where you go wrong. Paladins weren't worth it last edition, and they went up in price with no other changes bar the Apothecary (who cannot protect them from S8+, and only offers a minor buff against small arms). 

- 10 Interceptors with Halberds and 2 Incenirators

- 5 Strike Squad with Psi-Cannon

 

At 2k you can afford Ravens or more Dreadknights, so there is no need for this filler. Interceptors are just so much less effective than DK's now, and by using two Nemesis Strikeforces taped together, you can get 4 DK's in a single army no problem. 

- Autarch

- 2 Guard troops

- 1 Night spinner

- 3 Warwalkers

- 1 Crimson Hunter

-1 Wraithfighter

- 3 Serpents with 2 wraithguards and one other squad, but I cannot remember which it was, because it did not take part in the fights

 

Aside from no Fire Dragons, that's a pretty balanced list for Eldar.  

 

Your game sounds like most of 7th; shooting lists dominate, and random objectives suck. Serpent mech is absurd and badly needs to be nerfed into oblivion. 

GK can't do MoW missions without allied CADs. Even then most armies will have a difficult time matching up to eldar in those missions. I dont think your opponents list was that bad honestly. Also as you stated there were multiple rules missed and some misplays. We're all guilty of these but gk is like deathwing, the army is unforgiving (get it) and will punish the slightest mistake or bad luck.

 

Personally I'd take the suggestions above for PTs and allies and roll to get perfect timing. Change the ADL to a bunker for exactly the reason of what happened to your intercepts.. deploy them inside with the bunker 2" from the comms. Put everything in one area preferably off om inq skulls to fix ds. I did this yesterday to a sw player. My bunker had draigo + termies inside though. It was the only model I had on the board so it absorbed a whole round of fire including 10 las. Then all my units arrived in one place thanks to skulls + gk battle focus. He conceded t3.

 

So what is the summary of the game?

 

  1. I do not think that a nemesis strike force is a good idea for playing against AP2 heavy shooting list. Of course, I am not the best player, but I do not see how a NSF can win against such Eldar lists. Any ideas from your side?
  2.  People should stop the NDK are so “über” talking…they are good and balanced for the point cost, that’s all.

 

Thank you for reading so far!

 

Thanks for the report.

 

Eldar are a difficult match-up for pretty much everyone at the moment.

 

As for the NDK it can bring an almost perfect balance of survivability, mobility, firepower and assault impact to the table. To do this you really do need to give it the right tools, I personally would consider the PT to be an auto-take. With only a 6" move mobile opponents like Wave Serpents and Crisis Suits can just dance round the big guy, with the 12" move they need room to retreat to avoid assault - room that Wave Serpents do not have if they park on the table edge to protect their rear armour from your heavy psycannons.

Not to mention the shunt move is absolutely gold for getting DK's into enemy lines ASAP. So yeah, DK's realistically cost 160pts base, because you should never leave home without the personal teleporter. 

I hate the new missions too. Have never had a close game. They're always very one-sided. What we've decided in my group is that we'll play with only one card per player, and that we automatically toss any "hold objective x" cards. We can toss any objective card at the end of the turn. This adds a little bit of interest without allowing crazy one-sided point gain.

Not to mention the shunt move is absolutely gold for getting DK's into enemy lines ASAP. So yeah, DK's realistically cost 160pts base, because you should never leave home without the personal teleporter.

Or for snagging an undefended objective on the field since we're never going to have the manpower to fan out and cover them, realistically. Or even contesting one of your opponent's non super scoring units... all while setting up for a good maiming next turn.

 

I mean, good to point out since we're on the topic of objectives.

 

Edit: interceptors can do this, too.

I hate the new missions too. Have never had a close game. They're always very one-sided. What we've decided in my group is that we'll play with only one card per player, and that we automatically toss any "hold objective x" cards. We can toss any objective card at the end of the turn. This adds a little bit of interest without allowing crazy one-sided point gain.

 

Sounds like a good idea, I have to try is with my gaming group.

 

wow its weird to hear how much people here dont like the MoW missions. thats all we play around my parts... have not even played any other type of missions lol, and i love them makes you have to build a list around movement not just sitting back and shooting.

 

i also play a wraith heavy eldar army and anytime you can assault them with 2 units is bad cause i then have to pick if im gonna overwatch your little squad of dudes or let them hit me and the dreadknight coming in too.

I'm a fan of maelstrom missions, or rather of randomly rolling which mission type and which mission. It does require more preparation and definitely doesn't favor static gunlines. More mobility and msu which have always been what I favor anyway, although with this army it's much more challenging. What it also does is bring alternative win routes to the last minute objective grabs and discourages deathstars. Any linear strategy that may be strong in one aspect is beatable when missions are so diverse. The downside is obviously the random nature of the cards but even those can be mitigated barring really bad luck. And if the cards are poor you can always go for the kill instead. Just my experience.

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